Siren Endgame

[Matthias]

Claiming is a skill? lol claiming is nothing compaired to the skill it takes to kill what is claimed efficiently and flawless.

says the VD member.

[Seebo]

The drama is so weak though... When IN was together we were called elitists for, you know, actually killing things and doing it effectively. Now that "IN" proper doesn't really exist, the same shells that talked shit about us now post "hey we kill kirin in 1 minute" and "our tiamats no longer take 6 hours".

when your own linkshell leader openly admitted and condoned botting, you guys lost a good 75% of any claim you may have to greatness in regards to skill... claiming was a skill last i checked and botting is admittance that you don't have it. same goes for anyone else currently in the endgame scene who still bots.

Lol since when did anyone ever say botting was a skill? Claiming isn't skill, its luck/spamming/botting.

Skill is being able to accomplish things in game like 24 man DLs and Bv2. Tell me when TMO does it, and cut the jealousy shit. (I have nothing against TMO either, I'm friends with many members...just the shit talk and the utter hippocrisy about botting is pathetic).

IN was full of elitests, and yes, we had botting members (just like 99% of shells who claimed kings.) Point is, when it came down to it, we fucking owned any shell on the server, and ANYONE who isnt biased will admit it. Even some of the leaders of the current endgame shells will say IN was number 1, always was, and from the looks of the direction siren is heading now, always will be.

Idk why I bothered typing that out, I liked Raineer's response better.

[Royal]

my signature is big.

[bungie]

Claiming is a skill? lol claiming is nothing compaired to the skill it takes to kill what is claimed efficiently and flawless.

says the VD member.

and?

plz plz share some more of your thoughts, I wanna know how your logic works. mr. claiming takes skill.

[elison]

Claiming is a skill? lol claiming is nothing compaired to the skill it takes to kill what is claimed efficiently and flawless.

says the VD member.

and?

plz plz share some more of your thoughts, I wanna know how your logic works. mr. claiming takes skill.

Heres some logic, Matthias got TMO wiped at Faust.

[bungie]

LOL? wth?

[elison]

LOL? wth?

True story, ask Matthias how he vigilantly tanked Faust with his mighty Behemoth slaying Durandel and his massive Koenig Shield at his side.

Edit: This was the same night that TMO said they did a 1 minute Kirin (at least I think they said it was 1 minute, somewhere around there)

[Astarael]

Claiming is a skill? lol claiming is nothing compaired to the skill it takes to kill what is claimed efficiently and flawless.

says the VD member.

says the TMO member. but hey, guess what, I can back my stuff up:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y25...elx/Pwned1.jpg

Agita is in TMO now yar?

[Amadeo]

He was quite clearing insinuating that you'd inherit his bot if you recruited him. The "lol no no no" makes me wonder what his excuse became when that approach backfired.

[bungie]

"He" tells ls mates how to change the darter dats so that dartrs dont show up as well. Im not gonna put no ones business out there or nothing cuz friends > game but i got a friend in "That LS" who does bot...

[Hapernack]

says the VD member.

I think this was directed at our efficiency rather than botting. Either way its humorous at best. Since when did we get RD's rep? People saying we bring 60 people to fights and such when our roster when you count up a GRAND TOTAL OF ALL OUR MEMBERS we don't even have half of that so good job liars.

I guess doing HNMs with less than 2 full parties and some with only one full party just isn't considered "efficient" to shells who do JoL with over 40 and almost lose, 8 hour Tiamats and almost lose, let wyrms regen from 12% to 26% and then CFH (by accident, of course) and kill it. I suppose we have much to learn hmm?

[Matthias]

I think this was directed at our efficiency rather than botting.

actually it was directed at the botting. ya figure botters trying to pass themselves off as legitimate linkshells will downplay what they can't do (e.g. claim anything without botting) and try to overemphasize the importance of what they can do (e.g. actually kill what they've claimed, botting or no). what they forget is they wouldn't even have had the opportunity to kill anything had they not used bots to begin with... hence their entire success is based on cheating, which puts a crimp in their greatness no matter how much they have killed.

though of course there are some 'great' accomplishments were claiming isn't much of a factor, like vrtra or whatever... don't see too many linkshells sitting in king ranpere's tomb waiting for it to pop. but again... i come from the mindset of 'play the entire game clean or play the entire game cheating', so that's why IN's rep to me is marred because despite all the things they've done, gtp openly admitted to botting, so whatever they may have done is eh. and that's coming from someone who's been in an hnmls for less than 3 months now, and so have no personal history with or vendetta against them. or with VD for that matter. heck or RD... i have/had friends in all three ls's.

[bungie]

lol please continue..

Do you actually feed into what your saying?

[Seebo]

Whether you think they deserve recognition for their accomplishments or not cause of you blindly seeing that your own shell indeed also bots, it doesnt change the fact that they do. Some fights in the game take skill, botting cant kill DL Bv2 Vrtra or JoL with low end numbers of members (17 with JoL, 24 with DL). You don't have to "respect" IN or any of its members, I'm sure no one will lose sleep over it. When it comes down to it though, we're the best. It's fact, not opinion.

edit: The things you DO bot in the game (3 kings I guess? Cant think of much else) are pathetically easy to kill anyway. I don't see how you can call people skillful by legitimately or illigitimately claiming and killing a king.

[Astarael]

Whether you think they deserve recognition for their accomplishments or not cause of you blindly seeing that your own shell indeed also bots, it doesnt change the fact that they do. Some fights in the game take skill, botting cant kill DL Bv2 Vrtra or JoL with low end numbers of members (17 with JoL, 24 with DL). You don't have to "respect" IN or any of its members, I'm sure no one will lose sleep over it. When it comes down to it though, we're the best. It's fact, not opinion.

edit: The things you DO bot in the game (3 kings I guess? Cant think of much else) are pathetically easy to kill anyway. I don't see how you can call people skillful by legitimately or illigitimately claiming and killing a king.

Everytime I go to comment about elitism, or botting, or how bad tmo are nowadays, or how much better than tmo Rd are, I get way way sidetracked by that barrel rolling puppy.

[Hapernack]

actually it was directed at the botting. ya figure botters trying to pass themselves off as legitimate linkshells will downplay what they can't do (e.g. claim anything without botting) and try to overemphasize the importance of what they can do (e.g. actually kill what they've claimed, botting or no). what they forget is they wouldn't even have had the opportunity to kill anything had they not used bots to begin with... hence their entire success is based on cheating, which puts a crimp in their greatness no matter how much they have killed.

I don't see how botting affects Tiamats, Cerberus, Ouryus, Vrtra, JoLs, Kirins, etc in low numbers. Please explain.

[Matthias]

I don't see how botting affects Tiamats, Cerberus, Ouryus, Vrtra, JoLs, Kirins, etc in low numbers. Please explain.

well to clarify, for me it's more of an ethics issue to me than actual practice. i don't necessarily question VD's ability to kill stuff, you'll never hear me making the flat out comment of 'VD sucks and has no skill' or anything of that sort, and certainly i've never said any such thing about IN. but whether or not bots are actually used, if you are willing to use bots in one form or another, than that (imho) lack of ethics carries over into any fight. just because you don't need bots for tiamats, cerberus, ouryus, vrtras, jols, kirins, etc. doesn't change the fact that you (not you haper specifically, but the linkshell as a team) are willing to use bots, and that puts a mar on your accomplishments (to my view anyway). and really if a linkshell is willing to bot in one regard who's not to say they're unwilling to bot in other regards in fighting situations either?

does TMO bot? as far as i'm aware, nope. obviously i can't say with any level of certainty what each and every member of the shell does during an NM camp at their computers, but based on a few things i've observed (not the least of which is the fact that we seldom actually claim fafhogg), i'm gonna have to go with no... i doubt anyone actually bots, which is one of the reasons i decided to app with them. i've gotten to know edarion a bit as a person and not just a linkshell leader and i believe he's pretty serious about his refusal to bot, and in my 3ish months + 2 weeks application period i have yet to see agita claim anything. so really if we do bot, they must be some pretty crappy bots.

whenever i decide to quit the game i want to be able to say that whatever i accomplished, whether i did so with the 'top' linkshell or not, i did so without bots or any other unfair cheat help, and so far i believe i can say that with TMO. i would not have been able to say that with IN, and i don't think i'd be able to say that with VD. that's my point.

[Disposition]

This is really fucking weak drama. I am so disappointed in Siren.

[Matthias]

edit: The things you DO bot in the game (3 kings I guess? Cant think of much else) are pathetically easy to kill anyway. I don't see how you can call people skillful by legitimately or illigitimately claiming and killing a king.

yes they are easy, that's kind of my whole point. i never questioned that IN can kill those. i know they can. so can VD. so can TMO. heck so can even temperance and RD these days. so barring any blunders and screw ups like TMO has admittedly had recently, we can be fairly confident that whoever gets the claim will walk away with a hrotti or ridill or mbody or ebody or whatever. so what does it come down to then, to decide who walks away with that stuff? that's right. it comes down to the claim. if you bot, then you owe your win to the bot, hence your victory is tarnished. if you don't bot, then you owe the win to the fast reaction of whoever it is that claimed it for your linkshell. again it's an ethics issue for me, not just a matter of who comes out the winner.

[bungie]

I guess if I was in an LS that killed the least NM I would bitch too.


yes the HNM are easy.. after so many times of killing them. I can honestly say my 1st few times killing HNM (about a weeks worth compaired to 2 months worth with other shells) have made me allot better than I was before I started doing HNM. at the end of the day you cant get better w/o the claims to learn from. And claiming never means you are garenteed a win(just opertunity to learn), it does take skill to get the kill on any NM under the right circumstances (low #s and such). if it didnt take skill, why are ppl still wiping to faf? who did faf own last? its when you can constantly kill what you claim and not wipe. Me personally I cant rem the last time the ls i happen to be in wiped, and I can only recall a "few" fights we had more than enough to kill.

I hear what your saying but at the end of the day your LS does indeed have a few bots, just cuz they fail dosnt mean they are any different from shells you bitch about. as you said, you cant see what every member has on their pc and you would be very naive to think none of them have shit they shouldnt have running durring an HNM camp.