dex/crit relation, WS crits, WS gorgets discussion

[RKenshin]

No Sea, you're the one who's clueless.

From the start of this thread it was about testing and finding out the truth behind the affects of DEX on both your melee critical hit-rate and later your WS critical hit-rate. But, leave it to you the ego maniac to turn it into an irrelevant "OMG look who's wrong and look who's right" argument that it became (first example of immaturity). Too bad being ridiculous and misquoting me, taking what I say out of context, and putting it into a context it wasn't meant for doesn't prove me wrong though.

Through this thread various people have contributed to finding out the correct answers whether through providing experiences or personal testing or what have you, and the only thing you've successfully contributed is relentless criticisms of other people's ideas and 10 year old insults (more immaturity). Which were all initially unprovoked to being with.

The fact you can't even realize that Judah's comment was made because he's tired of you bullshitting up this thread just goes to show how blind and childish you're acting. Of course, you being the mature person you claim to be just assumes anyone who doesn't like how you act is riding my dick. Because no, how could someone disagree with you? That can't be it, anyone who goes against anything you say in this forum is automatically sucking RKenshin's dick because nothing you say is wrong? Is that what went through your head when you decided to end with that line? And yet we're the ones being immature?

Well, sorry to burst your bubble but the only person sucking my dick on this forum is Sylphet :wink:, you'll have to ask her if you can if that's what this is about.

But really, this is the third time now in this thread that you felt you had to interject some form of a personal insult towards me or someone else or BG in general. Each time you've contributed little to no valid or helpful evidence towards the topic, and you can't even realize Judah posted because he just wanted you to shut the fuck up and stop the nonsense. The only one constantly bringing this into off-topic tangents is you with your constant need to bash other people. You're the one being immature, and it's even worse that you can't realize that. Really, grow up and get over whatever gripe you have against me and other people, because it's ruining a potentially great thread.

And man, I at least will admit when I'm wrong about something. I have before and many other times, but I'm sure as hell not going to lie about something. But of course you can never be wrong, and anytime you have a chance to make yourself look right by insulting someone else you take it, as demonstrated over 6 times now in the past where you posted for no other reason than to criticize my theories/posts. In the end that's all just another example of your immaturity.

Anyway... I don't know about you but I'd like to get back to helping this thread develop.

nah he offhanded that assault katana he had in both parses. wanted senj/kikoku to be the only difference.

Oi, my mistake then. I assumed he was comparing WS damage with Senju/Kikoku to WS damage with Kikoku/Senju, since I often hear debates about which is better between those combinations. As far as I've heard it's generally accepted that Kikoku is better in the main hand though. So yeah, that supports his results anyway.

EDITz: Quotes and horrible grammar from rushing between this in dyna. D:

[XxSlusherxx]

Stellar uses the rare/ex assult katana offhand, simply for havng double kunai model.

[Zirk]

Anyone other than Nagamaki wanna do some rampage tests? I'd do it if I had access to a 75 war <.>

Only solution is Ruke giving me his account infos

[wow]

i wonder if searain's ws macro is IM SEARAIN, i make the sea RAIINNNNN <call12> that would be awesome

[Retrieving/C.D/Searain]

D:

Nonsense? Lol, my blabbing about the theory of DEX increasing chances of criticals during Rampage/Vorpal, something I developed and partially tested on my own and used for my own benefit in the game since 2005 or something, actually gave a fucking clue to some people that never even considered thinking outside the box and started, along with Maat's cap people discoveries (which was the biggest discharge, props to them), this brainstorming and testing regarding this subject and A. looking at Naga's tests it's actually turning out to be correct and B. with all your friggin insulting and posting senseless essays to defend your e-reputation you still haven't proven me or anyone else wrong, probably because you can't so you'd rather derail the thread into a 1 Vs 1 calling names contest, which becomes 1 Vs 100 when your entourage of consciousless minions come here to back up your flaming posts.

Less derailing and more proofs, until then shut the fuck up because it's basically still my word Vs. yours and we aren't going anywhere at this rate; I'd honestly avoid posting further if you stopped dragging me in since I don't have the time to go test anything this week-end, but you always want the last word, such an extraordinary displaying of maturity.

[wow]

wow, read his last post and maybe grow up and stop returning the insults cuz apparently you are so adamant about him not doing it too... anyways, from the amount of info/time/learning that rken has given everyone, even if he was wrong, i would take his side over yours after you started shit talking that you were right and he wasnt

JUST BECAUSE HES A DECENT GUY AND YOU ARE A POOPOO HEAD

[Retrieving/C.D/Searain]

/sigh

[Thitaubian]

...B. with all your friggin insulting and posting senseless essays to defend your e-reputation you still haven't proven me or anyone else wrong...

I've read the thread. I didn't read anything as him trying to prove you wrong.
If anything it was about the information not the messenger. It never was about proving you wrong in the first place.
It was about finding this 'crit rate/dex/ws crits' thing out. I do hope that is where this thread is heading towards again.

Now hes asking you to stop the bullshit. Please do. I'm sure he will aswell.

...and please space out your posts/use paragraphs, that shit is hard has hell to read.
(Also makes you look like your mad and lost your head, since you've lost the abillity to post coherently.)

[RKenshin]

Bunch of crap and excuses that are unrelated to my point.

...B. with all your friggin insulting and posting senseless essays to defend your e-reputation you still haven't proven me or anyone else wrong...

I've read the thread. I didn't read anything as him trying to prove you wrong.
If anything it was about the information not the messenger. It never was about proving you wrong in the first place.
It was about finding this 'crit rate/dex/ws crits' thing out. I do hope that is where this thread is heading towards again.

Now hes asking you to stop the bullshit. Please do. I'm sure he will aswell.

...and please space out your posts/use paragraphs, that shit is hard has hell to read.
(Also makes you look like your mad and lost your head, since you've lost the abillity to post coherently.)

If you read anything in this thread (I realize that's hard for you to do), then at least read that. I really feel I have nothing more to say, he covered it perfectly. But ya know, I can't leave it at just that quite yet.

It's a wonder what you learn when you actually read other people's posts though, isn't it? But of course I suppose you just look at the post, see all the words, choose not to read them, and assume what they say. Then you try to use what you thought it said against me later? Too bad everyone else here that is able to read can see how incorrect you are in your assumptions, as demonstrated by Thitaubian.

I never set out in this thread to prove anyone wrong, unlike you. I actually wanted to test it and see the evidence and the thread progress, but for you this was all about trying to make me look wrong. I'll even wager to say you care more about that than the outcome of this thread. And sorry, but defending yourself when you're attacked isn't tied with immaturity at this level. As I said before:

No Sea, you're the one who's clueless.

From the start of this thread it was about testing and finding out the truth behind the affects of DEX on both your melee critical hit-rate and later your WS critical hit-rate. But, leave it to you the ego maniac to turn it into an irrelevant "OMG look who's wrong and look who's right" argument that it became (first example of immaturity).Too bad being ridiculous and misquoting me, taking what I say out of context, and putting it into a context it wasn't meant for doesn't prove me wrong though.

I don't know but the fact that you felt you had to call me out on this, not once but three times in a row in this thread after I dropped the subject and tried to do testing of my own, shows more evidence of you being obsessed with your e-reputation, not me. Or at least obsessed with something.

Oh, and I never fell to the level of having to insult you (unprovoked), and even provoked I kept my manner and didn't resort to such things as accusing others of sucking my dick or your dick (lol). No matter how you look at it, you're the one being immature and causing the bullshit in this thread.

I'd love to go on and on about this and how you're again wrong in assuming what my point was, and also wrong about my opinions on DEX, but I just can't any longer for tonight! I've repeated it several times in this thread anyway... So if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch the third Indiana Jones movie now and get.... yeah. :wink: Syls getting upset that I'm wasting time with

A POOPOO HEAD

(she made me do that)

[Lordender]

less BS and more parses from maats cap owners plz ;x

[wow]

i own a maat's cap, lol parse time

[hopefulki]

less BS and more parses from maats cap owners plz ;x

[Nagamaki]

Given the comparison between the first parses posted at the start of the thread (well, the other threads) its pretty unlikely that Maat's cap had any sort of hidden effect, otherwise the crit rate should have broken past the 30% cap (20+4+6). There was question of 30% being the absolute cap, but testing with Thunder Staff quickly ruled that out, so if Maat's cap had +7%, a MNK with it + Destroyers + shitload of DEX would be able to get 37%, which doesn't seem to be the case. Nobody has done a definitive parse of this yet, but at least right now I'd say it is extremely unlikely.

So I said I wouldn't test Rampage, but after the Jin and Evis tests I was too curious to see how Rampage would behave. I went to Qufim instead of Lufaise because my BST is 64 and can't wear as much DEX stuff. I used Clippers and did a set of tests, I did the same calculations as for the rest to figure exact ranges, copy pasting all that is getting pointless so here's just the results.

With DEX gear DEX80

Melee crit rate on regular hits : 24.4%

Rampage crit rate at 100% (30 ws) : 30%
Rampage crit rate at 200% (20 ws) : 50%
Rampage crit rate at 300% (20 ws) : 70%


Without DEX gear DEX57

Melee crit rate on regular hits : 13.2%

Rampage crit rate at 300% (20 ws) : 60%


I shrunk the sample size again, and if people want to do longer tests, go nuts. These are over too few WS to tell for sure, but it kinda looks like Rampage 100% doesn't touch your crit rate, 20% adds roughly 25% and 300% adds roughly 50%.

Now I'm going to start looking for practical use gear possibilities with Jin and Evis, and see if it looks like there was any point to all this testing when it comes to avg WS dmg.

[RKenshin]

I'm going to try to get a PT today in Thickets on Colibri to continue my original testing on the 2h DEX build, so hopefully I'll get more solid results than the last PT returned.

And btw, really great job on all the tests Naga (feel like that's not said enough in this thread). I might bother you later to question you on the format for doing those tests so I can try my luck with them with as little error as possible.

EDIT: Misunderstood one part of the post! Removed the bit I misunderstood and tied into whether Asuran can DA.

[Blackice]

Side note on the Asuran and DA thing, I've always had the mind set of it can DA but only if a hit misses thus possibly filling in for that missed 8th hit. Which in theory would make brutal higher Asuran accuracy, if that makes any sense to anyone >.>

[Ryko]

Side note on the Asuran and DA thing, I've always had the mind set of it can DA but only if a hit misses thus possibly filling in for that missed 8th hit. Which in theory would make brutal higher Asuran accuracy, if that makes any sense to anyone >.>

I've been of the mind that is how it works for a long ass while, the only contradiction to this is that you can't swing more than 8 times in a single round with ridill/kraken regardless of if you whiff a hit or not.

[Shuemue]

Side note on the Asuran and DA thing, I've always had the mind set of it can DA but only if a hit misses thus possibly filling in for that missed 8th hit. Which in theory would make brutal higher Asuran accuracy, if that makes any sense to anyone >.>

I've been of the mind that is how it works for a long ass while, the only contradiction to this is that you can't swing more than 8 times in a single round with ridill/kraken regardless of if you whiff a hit or not.

Same thing, I leave brutal on for Asuran so if I whiff there's a chance I'll DA and get the 8th hit in.

[aurik]

I don't think you can replace a missed swing with a DA on Asuran.

[Nagamaki]

Well, I was going to suggest a simple test for that, but its already been answered.

If Ridill+Kraken will never swing more than 8 times in a single round regardless of misses, then I think it is fairly reasonable to say that the "8 hit" limit is actually a "8 swings" limit, and that it would apply to WS the same way it does to regular melee rounds.

As far as observing this in the actual WS, if DAs could support AF by compensating for missing, MNK/WAR would have a significantly better average hit count on AF than MNK/NIN, all other factors the same. My experience says this is not the case. MNK/WAR avg dmg is obviously better on things with non-trivial def, but hit ratio is the same.

[Evelyn]

Nagamaki, I'm curious as to what you used to arrive at your crit % numbers for rampage. Did you try to make it single-hit deaths like you did with the backhand blow numbers, or did you include multi-hits in the calculation?

Also, curious if the crit % for multi-hit weaponskills changes depending on the hit (IE 1st hit has better chance then rest or something)? Would be stupid if it was true, but this SE we're talking about.