dex/crit relation, WS crits, WS gorgets discussion

[Allundaria]

Which reminds me, is it time for another "ruke update your livejournal" pressure thread to be launched?

Should have bugged him while he was on Spring Break, you're SOL now.

Well crap

[Blackice]

more sandy vaginaness

I don't feel like going through every single part of your post but, I can say one thing for sure. Ruke has NEVER ever made a post with the mind set or attitude of "I'm Ruke and I'm right" he's always stated his results and his theories, nothing more. I seriously challenge you to find a post by him where he's imposing on someone else and saying he's the absolute when it comes to said topic.

[RKenshin]

I haven't even read completely your reply because I'm sure it's gonna be once again an epitome of the classic "I'm right because I'm Rkenshin" bullshit that you're used to spam on forums whenever someone tries to disagree with your biased conclusions;

I have never said something is right because I'm "RKenshin" ever, or anything like that, ever.

I never argue a point/opinion/view over someone else's without considerable evidence or personal experiences from me or other people to back it up. Never, not once, ever. Sure I'll debate my opinion sometimes when there's no conclusive evidence otherwise, and I'll even admit I've been wrong, but I'll never just outright call someone wrong on something without having some sort of reason (see: evidence/proof/etc) to believe so.

You just do this in your mind every single time, and think I'm just making all of this up despite all the proof and numbers and facts I normally site. The only person who has the superiority complex here is you, who does nothing other than yell about how wrong everyone else is and how right you are, never posting any kind of evidence of why you're right other than things like "False."

Way to go in trying to place your flaw on me, but even just clicking the link in my LJ is enough proof to show what you just said couldn't be more far from the truth. I never make any solid claims without evidence to support it, and my LJ is full of the evidence behind my claims.

And honestly, I really find it funny that my post is really so much for you to read that you could only do a few paragraphs. I just don't even know what to say to that. I can't understand why an adult is unable to finish reading a page worth of text in an argument with someone. I could understand other readers here not caring and not reading, but not as the person that is debating with me. Seriously, it doesn't hurt to read and it doesn't take you hours to read a simple page. It shouldn't take you more than 1-2 minutes to read, and if you have time to waste on BG then you can spare 1-2 minutes.

But hey, you keep assuming. You know, with all the stalking you've done of everything I've said you think you would get the point already... At what point am I throwing insults at you or degrading you as a whole? Never. You're assuming I'm upset over this because I 'wrote a lot', wow that's deep and genious, but news flash... I do this in almost every one of my posts. Does this mean I'm a raging asshole flaming everyone in every topic? No, it means I like to make my points as clear as possible, and in regards to you I had a LOT of points to make clear since you couldn't make sense out of a simple quote.

So again I'm not upset as I said several times before now, but keep having your superiority complex and assuming everyone here is going to spend the next few hours of their life upset, kissing eachother's ass, and claiming they're gods of the video game, while you whom is so much better for not being upset (when obviously no one is) go bang hot chicks (BG joke if you don't get it) and live life to the fullest, not upset with a trivial post, while still being the best WAR with the best understanding of everything and no evidence? You're mistaken if you think anyone here even cares the least about this whole thing in the grand scheme, especially me. But I guess the number of letters in a post are somehow correlated to how upset you are? Or maybe, the number of letters corresponds to your critical hit-rate somehow too.

Which reminds me, is it time for another "ruke update your livejournal" pressure thread to be launched?

Nodda for a few weeks still, not enough relevent topics to talk about yet. It'll probably end up being more about some job specific stuff and less about endgame in the next one, but will be a little while still before I actually update. Depends on how free time works out, also going to be getting ready to head to Japan soon so we'll see.

[Sylphet]

Wow, big woosh... I can't believe I missed that lol..

Wasn't this supposed to be a re-rail about maats cap?

[Priran]

http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/d7ba264559.jpg

[klvino]

Time to farm colibri into extinction.

[Shuemue]

Ruke are you 75 monk yet? I'm expecting lengthy discussions in your next LJ update.

[Sylphet]

Ruke are you 75 monk yet? I'm expecting lengthy discussions in your next LJ update.

nope he's 69, we've been pretty busy

70+ tonight though most likely

[Priran]

Ruke are you 75 monk yet? I'm expecting lengthy discussions in your next LJ update.

nope he's 69, we've been pretty busy

*rimshot*

[Keno]

[img]Jaime[/img]

Even if no one else appreciated the Shop, I did... Twas clever.

[Starr]

Looking at the results I feel Maat's Cap is not +crit, at least not 7% unless the cap is in fact 30%, someone needs to post a higher crit rate parse AND Raven to parse the same crit% with less DEX to prove Maat's Cap is +crit rate.

[Sylphet]

Ruke are you 75 monk yet? I'm expecting lengthy discussions in your next LJ update.

nope he's 69, we've been pretty busy

*rimshot*

oh good lord I did not just get busted saying that;
/hangs head in shame
maybe this weekend though 8)

[Nagamaki]

This is a preliminary test I did, mainly for the purpose of figuring what if anything the base crit cap was, and how it would be affected by +% items.


Mobs used

Miner Bees and Tavnazian Sheep in Lufaise. I picked those because they're low level enough that I was certain I'd hit whatever cap there was, but they have enough HP to not die too ridiculously fast. Getting as many swings using Wild Rabbits... no thanks.


Base stats

+4% Crit merits

69 DEX base (Elv MNK/THF)

+63 DEX in armor+squid
Voyager Sallet
Spike Necklace
Minuet Earring
Pixie Earring
Kirin's Osode
Magna Gauntlets
Rajas Ring
Thunder Ring
Warwolf Belt
Byakko's Haidate
Melee Gaiters

Based on quick somepage search, you could get another 9 dex in gear as elvaan, but this is what I had/grabbed off ah cheap

A theory I had beforehand based on experience using Destroyers in the past is that the +6% crits on them won't apply to kick attacks, so the effective +% effect ends up around +5% instead. This isn't really confirmed here because the sample swing count is fairly low, but it seems plausible.

I started with staff and kept going until it got too freaking boring, which was around 300 swings. So I just went to 300ish swings with all 3 tests. More extensive tests would get a steadier exact crit rate, but that was good enough for this simple stuff.

Results

Thunder Staff
+15% Crit +4 DEX

136 DEX + 19% rate

300ish hits = 41.3%

-------------

Destroyers
+6% Crit

132 DEX + 10% rate

300ish hits = 30.2%

-------------

Faith Baghnakhs

132 DEX +4% rate

300ish hits = 26.1%

Preliminary conclusion

So based on those numbers, it would appear that base crit cap (excluding merits and any +% mod) is somewhere around 21-22%. It also makes it really really obvious that +% gear lifts the cap on crit rate. There's a lot of stuff this test doesn't look at at all though, like trying to find out what the theoretical yDEX-mAGI relationship is, or the potential effects of "Increase rate of critical hits" items. Also, on the specific topic of Maat's Cap, figuring that out would be as simple as going out to Lufaise (or a similarly suitable area) and blasting mobs with A: X DEX + Maat's Cap and B: X+7 DEX (using the same weapon and no other crit affecting items).

[Shuemue]

Ruke are you 75 monk yet? I'm expecting lengthy discussions in your next LJ update.

nope he's 69, we've been pretty busy

70+ tonight though most likely

I'm relying on him to come up with a devious scheme for my loltaru monk to outparse the adaberk ridill wars in my LS -.-

[Zirk]

Nice test Naga. It seems this would support MNK crit rate capping around 30% assuming max crit merits and destroyers.

As mentioned on page 1, I think I might reproduce the same sort of test except every 300 punches removing say 5 dex in gear and seeing where crit rate starts dropping off sharply (assuming this would happen) with the hope of trying to see if there is a tier somewhere.

Hopefully Raven gets back from Seattle soon and can do the test you mentioned to close the case on Maat's Cap. (And I won't have to go out and mimic his dex setup )

[Sylphet]

I'm relying on him to come up with a devious scheme for my loltaru monk to outparse the adaberk ridill wars in my LS -.-

Can you find a way for my lolelvaan blm to outparse you fatty little tarutaru?

You lil' bastards inherantly have more damage and a free tier IV nuke's worth of MP stuffed in that oversized head of yours!

btw Ruke wins the parse on every job, and I do mean every job.. I exped with his DRG and him + wyvern were doing ~37% of the damage in a party with: DRG, RNG, WAR, WAR, DRK, BRD (outside healing) it's more him than anything else and it's not *really* about any of the gear. He makes sure he never disengages between mobs, he always designates himself to be the person to call the next mob if there's multiple slept and he does NOT slack or get bored with it (he actually really likes to xp..). All these things combined along with the best possible gear pretty much ensure he wins ~95% of the time.

so yeah ... maat's cap...

[Zirk]

A theory I had beforehand based on experience using Destroyers in the past is that the +6% crits on them won't apply to kick attacks, so the effective +% effect ends up around +5% instead. This isn't really confirmed here because the sample swing count is fairly low, but it seems plausible.)

Not to intentionally bring this parse up again ><

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1.../NagaParse.jpg

But this was a fairly large sample size which nailed +6% crit rate from destroyers.

[Zilong]

This is a preliminary test I did, mainly for the purpose of figuring what if anything the base crit cap was, and how it would be affected by +% items.


Mobs used

Miner Bees and Tavnazian Sheep in Lufaise. I picked those because they're low level enough that I was certain I'd hit whatever cap there was, but they have enough HP to not die too ridiculously fast. Getting as many swings using Wild Rabbits... no thanks.


Base stats

+4% Crit merits

69 DEX base (Elv MNK/THF)

+63 DEX in armor+squid
Voyager Sallet
Spike Necklace
Minuet Earring
Pixie Earring
Kirin's Osode
Magna Gauntlets
Rajas Ring
Thunder Ring
Warwolf Belt
Byakko's Haidate
Melee Gaiters

Based on quick somepage search, you could get another 9 dex in gear as elvaan, but this is what I had/grabbed off ah cheap

A theory I had beforehand based on experience using Destroyers in the past is that the +6% crits on them won't apply to kick attacks, so the effective +% effect ends up around +5% instead. This isn't really confirmed here because the sample swing count is fairly low, but it seems plausible.

I started with staff and kept going until it got too freaking boring, which was around 300 swings. So I just went to 300ish swings with all 3 tests. More extensive tests would get a steadier exact crit rate, but that was good enough for this simple stuff.

Results

Thunder Staff
+15% Crit +4 DEX

136 DEX + 19% rate

300ish hits = 41.3%

-------------

Destroyers
+6% Crit

132 DEX + 10% rate

300ish hits = 30.2%

-------------

Faith Baghnakhs

132 DEX +4% rate

300ish hits = 26.1%

Preliminary conclusion

So based on those numbers, it would appear that base crit cap (excluding merits and any +% mod) is somewhere around 21-22%. It also makes it really really obvious that +% gear lifts the cap on crit rate. There's a lot of stuff this test doesn't look at at all though, like trying to find out what the theoretical yDEX-mAGI relationship is, or the potential effects of "Increase rate of critical hits" items. Also, on the specific topic of Maat's Cap, figuring that out would be as simple as going out to Lufaise (or a similarly suitable area) and blasting mobs with A: X DEX + Maat's Cap and B: X+7 DEX (using the same weapon and no other crit affecting items).

Do you have a control crit% without all those DEX gear?

I'm wondering because you do get higher crit rate against TW mob.

[Nagamaki]

Weapon wasn't the only gear/food/race variable in that parse, so it isn't a perfect comparison. I did say the thing about kicks was just a theory, either way the sample size in my test was small so its not like it proves anything on that specific topic, I probably should have just left it out for that reason.

As for a control parse, I'll make one later. The main purpose here was to figure if 30% was the real cap for HTH with Destroyers, so I just went full DEX to guarantee hitting whatever the cap was. Since TW mobs with roughly the same DEX as was used on the GColibris yielded the same approx 30% rate, it confirmed that much. Tests without the stacked DEX (but still on the same TW crap) will show what if any the relation between the amount of DEX needed and the mob level/stats is.

[Shuemue]

I'm relying on him to come up with a devious scheme for my loltaru monk to outparse the adaberk ridill wars in my LS -.-

Can you find a way for my lolelvaan blm to outparse you fatty little tarutaru?

http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/2854

That'll get you there or thereabouts, I'm fairly against putting my pathetic hp even lower just to pull hate faster on a HNM.