Mnk Noob questions

[draxyl]

All the sudden everyone shits on the SH+1 because the price has fallen...it isn't any less optimal than it was before the price drop. If you eat meat for merits, you want as much accuracy as you can get - SH+1 delivers that.

If somehow you want to argue that 1.5% increase to crits is superior to 2 accuracy, go for it...it's a pretty small difference either way, but I'm still putting stock into accuracy. Pahluwan body's only saving grace for monk is that it is free if you put in the effort to get one.

Salvage body's might as well not exist. Even if you do get one, say hello to an extra +8 str and +6 store tp - not exactly game breaking over the SH+1, which I'll remind you that you can buy off the AH and not have to farm for 6+ months to obtain.

Overall, I'd rate Shura Togi/+1 as being the best overall body in terms of attainability and performance. The loss of 1-2 accuracy with the addition of 20-22 attack is an excellent trade off.

edit: for what its worth, I use SH+1. Also, where is Genome coming on here and recommending OSODE!?

[aurik]

All the sudden everyone shits on the SH+1 because the price has fallen...it isn't any less optimal than it was before the price drop. If you eat meat for merits, you want as much accuracy as you can get - SH+1 delivers that.

If somehow you want to argue that 1.5% increase to crits is superior to 2 accuracy, go for it...it's a pretty small difference either way, but I'm still putting stock into accuracy. Pahluwan body's only saving grace for monk is that it is free if you put in the effort to get one.

Salvage body's might as well not exist. Even if you do get one, say hello to an extra +8 str and +6 store tp - not exactly game breaking over the SH+1, which I'll remind you that you can buy off the AH and not have to farm for 6+ months to obtain.

Overall, I'd rate Shura Togi/+1 as being the best overall body in terms of attainability and performance. The loss of 1-2 accuracy with the addition of 20-22 attack is an excellent trade off.


edit: for what its worth, I use SH+1. Also, where is Genome coming on here and recommending OSODE!?

I like osode over sh+1 for merits. While you lose 7 accuracy, you do pick up a good amount of strength which isn't totally negligible. Needless to day, Togi trumps Osode in difficult merit camps, which is most merit places in AU.

That said, I have an unresolved question regarding fSTR and hand-to-hand:

crit cap = 3 * (base_dmg + fSTR_cap)
crit cap = 3 * (h2h_skill * 0.11 + 3 + wdmg + 8 + wrank)

Is the "+3" of this equation part of base damage or part of capped fSTR?

This is important because if it is automatically granted as part of base damage, then monk's cap fSTR is only 10 with most endgame weapons, which lowers the total strength needed to cap out by a lot.

It's difficult to disassociate these ><

[Francisco II]

That said, I have an unresolved question regarding fSTR and hand-to-hand:

crit cap = 3 * (base_dmg + fSTR_cap)
crit cap = 3 * (h2h_skill * 0.11 + 3 + wdmg + 8 + wrank)

Is the "+3" of this equation part of base damage or part of capped fSTR?

I'm pretty sure it's part of base damage... but I'm basing that on nothing that I can back up with actual hard numbers. Since with H2H, you don't NEED to equip a weapon, nothing is forcing you to have a DMG stat except your own skill.

This test MIGHT work... but I'm not sure...

RDM has 0 Hand-to-Hand skill.... and there's the mystery DMG (?) +3...

RDM also has 0 Staff Skill.

But it can equip Cat Baghnakhs and Ash Staff.

Ash Staff is DMG: 5, Cat Bags are DMG: +2... Conclusions should be able to be drawn from that, I would think.

crit cap = 3 * (h2h_skill * 0.11 + 3 + wdmg + 8 + wrank)

Can anyone verify the 0.11 part? I've long been under the impression it was just 0.1 (or H2H_Skill/10)...

[aurik]

crit cap = 3 * (h2h_skill * 0.11 + 3 + wdmg + 8 + wrank)

Can anyone verify the 0.11 part? I've long been under the impression it was just 0.1 (or H2H_Skill/10)...

Check the data dump on wiki.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Category_talk:Hand-to-Hand

That said, I have an unresolved question regarding fSTR and hand-to-hand:

crit cap = 3 * (base_dmg + fSTR_cap)
crit cap = 3 * (h2h_skill * 0.11 + 3 + wdmg + 8 + wrank)

Is the "+3" of this equation part of base damage or part of capped fSTR?

I'm pretty sure it's part of base damage... but I'm basing that on nothing that I can back up with actual hard numbers. Since with H2H, you don't NEED to equip a weapon, nothing is forcing you to have a DMG stat except your own skill.

This test MIGHT work... but I'm not sure...

RDM has 0 Hand-to-Hand skill.... and there's the mystery DMG (?) +3...

RDM also has 0 Staff Skill.

But it can equip Cat Baghnakhs and Ash Staff.

Ash Staff is DMG: 5, Cat Bags are DMG: +2... Conclusions should be able to be drawn from that, I would think.

Yes, good test. Pump their attack with double minuets from a bard and see what their peak crit value is on bunnies. With identical str and WRANK, fSTR should be the same. If the +3 is part of base damage, the crit cap should be the same. If it's part of fSTR, it will be different.

[Francisco II]

Forgot to mention, someone else needs to test this... I have merits in hand-to-hand skill... >.>

Edit: I've also seen "H2H_skill/9.1 * 0.9 +3" tossed around... produces nearly the same thing... but it's the difference between a DMG boost at 290 vs 292...

I'm at exactly 290 H2H skill right now, and I have three merits doing nothing... bunny test?

[aurik]

add your data to the data dump on wiki.

[Francisco II]

Went around punching a bunch of mobs outside of Bastok, 186 was the highest and by far the most frequent... Lowest was 166. (Had Destroyers equiped...)

If Crit_DMG = 3 (DMG + n) and DMG = 52.9...

Crit_DMG = 158.7 + 3n ... 161, 164, 167, 170, 173, 176, 179, 182, 185, 188...

So either SE is rounding down something somewhere, a random number is involved, or "n" can be an irrational number. I really don't have any idea on what "weapon rank" is/does.

I'll try and test this a bit further.

Edit: Raised merits to 292 hand-to-hand skill, started getting crits for 189 right off the bat....

[aurik]

base dmg is an integer, 189 -> 63 base, 186->62 base.

base dmg = h2h_base + wdmg + 8 + wrank
wrank on destroyers is 2, wdmg 18

[Francisco II]

And through all of that testing, even on TWTBW mobs, there is still a lot of variance in the damage.

189 (@ 292) and 186 (@ 290) appeared at about 70% the time, but I also had a bunch of other numbers (166-181 @290 and 166-186 @292)... what's the variable here stopping me from hitting for "max" damage each time? STR? Attack? Probably STR.

[aurik]

And through all of that testing, even on TWTBW mobs, there is still a lot of variance in the damage.

189 (@ 292) and 186 (@ 290) appeared at about 70% the time, but I also had a bunch of other numbers (166-181 @290 and 166-186 @292)... what's the variable here stopping me from hitting for "max" damage each time? STR? Attack? Probably STR.

nah, pdif is variable even with capped attack. nothing can be done about that.

the only thing that's important is the peak crit.

[Francisco II]

Gotcha...

WRANK is WpnDMG / 9, right? Kinda strange it doesn't factor in H2H skill and the mysterious "+3"... shafts us out of ~9 damage per crit...

Is "pdif" the +8, and can it be a negative number? Asking this, since I don't see many 165 damage critical hits against say Genbu.

[aurik]

pdif isn't the +8, a capped crit is pdif = 3
+8 is just a constant

[BerenTebogo]

I still can't believe its been this long and you're just hitting 75, you're so lazy D:

congrats though bud, maybe we can ballista again sometime and I can kick your ass some more :D

[Zirk]

I'm a bit late to this but brutal on left ear ftw

[Jinxs]

And, on the note of replacing Brutal w/ merman's on WS, are folks back to thinking that you can't DA during Asuran provided you miss an earlier hit in the WS?

yes, based on the observation that you make a maximum of 8 swings per combat round, regardless of how many actually hit.

Just curious how proven is this 8 hit max theory?

[Francisco II]

It's pretty hard to prove with a WS, since you can't prove whether or not Brutal proc'd on missed hits... I think the only way to "prove" it one way or another is to do a few thousand Asuran Fists with and without Brutal, on the same mobs over and over again and check the TP return... and even then a 5% margin of error isn't really anything solid... and the Store TP on Brutal would probably skew the numbers.

Regarding PDIF, what type of numbers can it be (range, decimal places, etc)... I want to do some testing, will PDIF always be a number like 2.4, 2.5, 2.6.... or can it be something like 2.859302193.....?

[DrObvious]

base dmg is an integer, 189 -> 63 base, 186->62 base.

base dmg = h2h_base + wdmg + 8 + wrank
wrank on destroyers is 2, wdmg 18

Is wrank really 2 on destroyers? For other weapons, wrank is calculated by using the normal unlocked damage and not the latent damage. Dissector, for example, does not get wrank from the extra latent damage.

[Suiram]

base dmg is an integer, 189 -> 63 base, 186->62 base.

base dmg = h2h_base + wdmg + 8 + wrank
wrank on destroyers is 2, wdmg 18

Is wrank really 2 on destroyers? For other weapons, wrank is calculated by using the normal unlocked damage and not the latent damage. Dissector, for example, does not get wrank from the extra latent damage.

You have it backwards, I played around with dissector in Gustaberg when I got it, before unlocking it, and the wrank was based on the higher, latent damage (D36), even though it was still locked (D23).