Summoner in Salvage

[Halcyon]

If you only have 2 healers why not go as SMN if you can get a sub and magic and be a gimpy healer >_>

I've...already stated that as one of the SMNs uses in my earlier posts.

The problem with that is at 75 I'd only have access to Cure 3, which only gives 192-210hp back depending on day/weather (with darksday having the lower end of the healing spectrum) and for the large part of the run, I'd be pretty much useless without Magic/Ability cells which usually go to WHM > BLM > RDM first.

While I'm completing willing to use SMN in Salvage (hence the thread itself), I don't foresee the benefits of using SMN outweighing the disadvantages it brings.

[Halcyon]

Thank you everyone for your contributions and for sharing your experiences.

It looks like I may be stuck going to Salvage as WAR, which is great for farming up cells (and backup tanking) due to h2h skill, but not terribly useful on the endboss fight =(

(\ / )

Why isn't it useful on the end boss? Melee damage against the chariots is very decent.

While melee damage may be decent, feeding the boss TP usually ends up contributing to a wipe.

At least everytime I've done Bhaflau end-boss, the numerous TP moves rape our melee DD and put a significant strain on our 2 healers.

I'm trying to find alternative methods/combinations which would minimize death and mitigate the enmity generated from spike damage.

you could try bringing bolts and building TP from far.. then run in to do WS

That's actually a brilliant idea.

I might have to try that.

Thank you

[Halcyon]

Melees eat chariots, we kill Bhaflau boss with 10~ people, more healers than melee. So long as you can keep them alive, 2 melee is plenty for that boss.

My last LJ update has a guide on fighting the boss with a small group. Considering the amount of time we got to the last floor with, I'd consider it possible to beat the boss with 6 even, or get damn close

I'll have to review that and get back to you.

Last "low man" Remnants I saw was Kanican's and his group was either dead or weakened in early every screenshot. 45 min fights with 10k xp loss or greater for 1-2 drops (at most) is just not feasible =(

[Lordwafik]

Melees eat chariots, we kill Bhaflau boss with 10~ people, more healers than melee. So long as you can keep them alive, 2 melee is plenty for that boss.

My last LJ update has a guide on fighting the boss with a small group. Considering the amount of time we got to the last floor with, I'd consider it possible to beat the boss with 6 even, or get damn close

I'll have to review that and get back to you.

Last "low man" Remnants I saw was Kanican's and his group was either dead or weakened in early every screenshot. 45 min fights with 10k xp loss or greater for 1-2 drops (at most) is just not feasible =(

If you're worried about exp, don't even bother with salvage.

[Halcyon]

Melees eat chariots, we kill Bhaflau boss with 10~ people, more healers than melee. So long as you can keep them alive, 2 melee is plenty for that boss.

My last LJ update has a guide on fighting the boss with a small group. Considering the amount of time we got to the last floor with, I'd consider it possible to beat the boss with 6 even, or get damn close

I'll have to review that and get back to you.

Last "low man" Remnants I saw was Kanican's and his group was either dead or weakened in early every screenshot. 45 min fights with 10k xp loss or greater for 1-2 drops (at most) is just not feasible =(

If you're worried about exp, don't even bother with salvage.

People said the same thing about Dynamis, years ago.

[Rocl]

Melees eat chariots, we kill Bhaflau boss with 10~ people, more healers than melee. So long as you can keep them alive, 2 melee is plenty for that boss.

My last LJ update has a guide on fighting the boss with a small group. Considering the amount of time we got to the last floor with, I'd consider it possible to beat the boss with 6 even, or get damn close

I'll have to review that and get back to you.

Last "low man" Remnants I saw was Kanican's and his group was either dead or weakened in early every screenshot. 45 min fights with 10k xp loss or greater for 1-2 drops (at most) is just not feasible =(

If you're worried about exp, don't even bother with salvage.

People said the same thing about Dynamis, years ago.

Well I guess in a few years those worried about exp loss can do Salvage? Is that what you're saying? lol

[Lordwafik]

Melees eat chariots, we kill Bhaflau boss with 10~ people, more healers than melee. So long as you can keep them alive, 2 melee is plenty for that boss.

My last LJ update has a guide on fighting the boss with a small group. Considering the amount of time we got to the last floor with, I'd consider it possible to beat the boss with 6 even, or get damn close

I'll have to review that and get back to you.

Last "low man" Remnants I saw was Kanican's and his group was either dead or weakened in early every screenshot. 45 min fights with 10k xp loss or greater for 1-2 drops (at most) is just not feasible =(

If you're worried about exp, don't even bother with salvage.

People said the same thing about Dynamis, years ago.

Years ago? I still tell my LS's the same thing. You take whatever raise you get and you like it. No princessing around for people to hit 75 after an R3, and then watch them go merit for 3h but not fill up any buffer xp.

[Halcyon]

Melees eat chariots, we kill Bhaflau boss with 10~ people, more healers than melee. So long as you can keep them alive, 2 melee is plenty for that boss.

My last LJ update has a guide on fighting the boss with a small group. Considering the amount of time we got to the last floor with, I'd consider it possible to beat the boss with 6 even, or get damn close

I'll have to review that and get back to you.

Last "low man" Remnants I saw was Kanican's and his group was either dead or weakened in early every screenshot. 45 min fights with 10k xp loss or greater for 1-2 drops (at most) is just not feasible =(

If you're worried about exp, don't even bother with salvage.

People said the same thing about Dynamis, years ago.

Well I guess in a few years those worried about exp loss can do Salvage? Is that what you're saying? lol

No. I'm saying when Dynamis was relatively new xp loss was common.

In the last year I've died maybe 5 times total doing Dynamis and that's only during Dynamis-Xarc.

Why was this? Because people weren't familiar with the zone. Strategies were still being tweaked and improved.

As time passes and people gain more experience with Salvage, the XP loss will decrease with newer and better strategies.

In essence, what I'm sayin is that there's a better way to do Salvage other than zombying.

[Halcyon]

Melees eat chariots, we kill Bhaflau boss with 10~ people, more healers than melee. So long as you can keep them alive, 2 melee is plenty for that boss.

My last LJ update has a guide on fighting the boss with a small group. Considering the amount of time we got to the last floor with, I'd consider it possible to beat the boss with 6 even, or get damn close

I'll have to review that and get back to you.

Last "low man" Remnants I saw was Kanican's and his group was either dead or weakened in early every screenshot. 45 min fights with 10k xp loss or greater for 1-2 drops (at most) is just not feasible =(

If you're worried about exp, don't even bother with salvage.

People said the same thing about Dynamis, years ago.

Years ago? I still tell my LS's the same thing. You take whatever raise you get and you like it. No princessing around for people to hit 75 after an R3, and then watch them go merit for 3h but not fill up any buffer xp.

Personally, I always fill up on buffer BEFORE meriting. If you have members that would rather merit than get an xp buffer they're probably not the brightest crayons in thebox.

-I- don't mind the xp loss because I'm a warrior. I can get a merit party without putting my flag up. But some of the less fortunate members of my LS (the DRGs, and BSTS, etc) don't have that same latitude.

Plus, 10k xp might not seem like a lot but when you spread it out among an alliance of 10, 10k xp becomes 100k xp within the group.

I just think there's a better method of doing Salvage other than dying and reraising a bunch of times. Hence, my INITIAL question regarding the usefulness of SMN in Salvage (just to re-rail this thread) :D

[Lordwafik]

Plus, 10k xp might not seem like a lot but when you spread it out among an alliance of 10, 10k xp becomes 100k xp within the group.

That's not a realistic way of thinking, you're looking way too far into it. You may as well not leave the mog house.

Zombying bosses in salvage is one strategy, made by people who are sacrificing themselves to find a better way really. If you don't like the zombying, by all means find a better way, like alot of us salvage veterens have spent much more than 100k xp trying to figure out every nook and cranny of the zone.

[Halcyon]

Plus, 10k xp might not seem like a lot but when you spread it out among an alliance of 10, 10k xp becomes 100k xp within the group.

That's not a realistic way of thinking, you're looking way too far into it. You may as well not leave the mog house.

Zombying bosses in salvage is one strategy, made by people who are sacrificing themselves to find a better way really. If you don't like the zombying, by all means find a better way, like alot of us salvage veterens have spent much more than 100k xp trying to figure out every nook and cranny of the zone.

Don't get me wrong. I'm definitely grateful that there are people making sacrifices to provide us with information on Salvage.

I'm just trying to come up with alternatives!
I think every aspect of "EndGame" has been trial and error. From Dynamis to Wyrms, to HNM, etc.

I'm just trying to find out what kind of combination would produce a successful salvage run while minimizing deaths so that the benefits of Salvage outweigh the cost.

[Lhexh]

Who the hell zombies LBC?? Kaeko's group does it the same way we do, with 7-9 people and deaths are rare. Just because you see a SS with people in the red doesn't mean they are executing zombie tactics, it just means the SS came after a Homing Missile landed, which isn't a real big deal in the kiting strategy.

We use kiting tactics, the fight takes 15-25 minutes because we concentrate on RNG damage over BLM damage. Kaeko's group uses BLM damage and DoT instead and the fight takes a bit longer but is a safer strategy to rely on because it gives more time for mistakes to be overcome.

Not really sure where you are getting this idea people are using zombie tactics at all. The thread on Bhaflau Remnants has a lot of strategies described in great detail from many different groups on how to easily beat this with low numbers and with high numbers.

Personally, I haven't lost that much xp during Salvage. I had capped xp on both BLM+WAR before christmas and haven't xp'd either job since and both have over 20K buffer remaining. I also pull dynamis as BLM so have undoubtably lost a chunk of that buffer there so at worst I've probably lost 40K xp total doing salvage 2-3 times a week since it started.

[aurik]

20k xp/hr party x 6 people = 120k xp an hour, or less time than you spend actually losing it...

[Halcyon]

20k xp/hr party x 6 people = 120k xp an hour, or less time than you spend actually losing it...

I've never gotten 20k xp/hr. I'm not a mnk or blm =/

Most I've capped out at is 12k xp/hr.

It's very rare now to find an xp camp that isn't crowded or overcamped, unless you go at weird hours. ;/

[Halcyon]

Who the hell zombies LBC?? Kaeko's group does it the same way we do, with 7-9 people and deaths are rare. Just because you see a SS with people in the red doesn't mean they are executing zombie tactics, it just means the SS came after a Homing Missile landed, which isn't a real big deal in the kiting strategy.

We use kiting tactics, the fight takes 15-25 minutes because we concentrate on RNG damage over BLM damage. Kaeko's group uses BLM damage and DoT instead and the fight takes a bit longer but is a safer strategy to rely on because it gives more time for mistakes to be overcome.

Not really sure where you are getting this idea people are using zombie tactics at all. The thread on Bhaflau Remnants has a lot of strategies described in great detail from many different groups on how to easily beat this with low numbers and with high numbers.

Personally, I haven't lost that much xp during Salvage. I had capped xp on both BLM+WAR before christmas and haven't xp'd either job since and both have over 20K buffer remaining. I also pull dynamis as BLM so have undoubtably lost a chunk of that buffer there so at worst I've probably lost 40K xp total doing salvage 2-3 times a week since it started.

Allow me to address this point by point,

Firstly,
The screenshots that I saw had members either dead or in a weakened state in MULTIPLE screenshots, which, IMO isn't really a feasible way to go.

Secondly,
While RNG/BLM dmg may be more reliable and "safer", My group doesn't really HAVE that option, HENCE my thread asking about the utility of SMN in Salvage.

Thirdly,
As stated before, I -do- have a WAR75 job and XP is not my primary concern for Salvage because -I- can always find a party relatively easily. HOWEVER, OTHER MEMBERS of my group are not as fortunate where they can just throw up a flag and get an invite instantaneously.

The entire point of this thread wasn't to argue over EXISTING Salvage Strategies. It was to find ALTERNATIVE utilties for the current group/jobs that I do Salvage with to MINIMIZE (not AVOID) multiple death scenarios where the "reward" would be completion and 1-2 drops.

The opportunity cost in terms of Time, Assault Points and XP is currently greater than the "reward". Hence, why I'd surmise most people stick to doing Nyzul Isle assault area.

IN CONCLUSION,
I've gained a lot of spiffy new ideas from a few of the participants in this thread (despite the derailing of this thread), on doing Salvage and will make the necessary adjustments with my group to test/experiment with.

^_^ Danke All!