PLD vs WAR vs Stainslav vs Aurik vs Ryko

[Ryko]

I still don't exactly see the point in shirking the 12 shield skill for some haste. Personally I'd take the HP loss on the belt and use a swift or a speed, you get haste and accuracy out of it and even more -atk to go along with the koenig and defender to try to push your hitting for 0 more often.

[Therin]

It's funny, I rarely even use the Macahuitl +1.

Only in kite fights and on JoL. I'd never use it for a normal straight-tanked HNM. (Templar Mace ftw)

And I still say it's better than excalibur.

[Ryko]

Using that logic why aren't you using a hospitaler earring over the hades +1 >_> it's proportionally the same tradeoff.

[Therin]

Using that logic why aren't you using a hospitaler earring over the hades +1 >_> it's proportionally the same tradeoff.

Because I don't use a Hades+1 anyway. >_>

[Ryko]

When'd you sell it/what'd you replace it with.

[Therin]

When'd you sell it/what'd you replace it with.

I sold it a while back, simply because I needed the money to pay Zeaquada back (borrowed gil from her for my Kaiser Schaller).

As for what I use, it's Ethereal/Buckler for /WAR and Ethereal/Loquacious for /NIN.

[Ryko]

Ok, same logic though, wouldn't the 5% extra potency be more useful for cures than 30 MP when you're likely not capped beyond the first 5 seconds of the fight anyway. I mean I get the fastcast part but that's not really changing a 3-4 second recast.

[Grey Jorildyn]

why not jump swap in the loquacious when you want to use it instead and get something useful?

[Therin]

Ok, same logic though, wouldn't the 5% extra potency be more useful for cures than 30 MP when you're likely not capped beyond the first 5 seconds of the fight anyway. I mean I get the fastcast part but that's not really changing a 3-4 second recast.

You have a very good point. I think I'd rather just not use a Hospitaler Earring.

Anyway, as for Loquacious, the fast cast is really, really nice. And Excalibur, well, I didn't mean to imply that it was useless. I just definitely don't think it's worth the currency upgrading, especially not when we have such other awesome choices (such as the ones I've mentioned, Hauteclaire, Mac+1, Templar Mace). Sure, it's a great solo sword, it's probably pretty awesome for merits, and I'd love to see some 600 damage procs on Cerberus but I seriously don't see the effectiveness on something like Tiamat where I probably parse at 10% accuracy anyway.

Seems like in order to make it work damage-wise you'd need to gear yourself for it specifically (meaning, not tank), in which case your party slot on a grand wyrm would probably be better used as a SMN who can damage it just as quickly without giving it a bit of TP, or, a SAM who can do about twice as much damage.

(And I seriously don't believe Sonix's estimate of 15,000 damage on Tiamat in 45 minutes, so don't even spout out those numbers again until you can show a parse of it.)

*EDIT* To further prove my point:

http://theblackroses-ls.com/tekki/Te...lls/tiamat.png

He's not geared for tanking here, he's geared for DDing. He said, "Still working on my gear, need to get more accuracy and haste." So yeah, maybe he's not geared optimally, but he's also not tanking. And that's still 2,500 damage less than Sonix's estimation. And I bet the fight was longer than 45 minutes, too. (interesting to note: not really relevant to this topic but lol @ 18.4 average skill damage).

[thur]

Ever try DD PLD? It outparses WARs (Without ridill)

lol

lololol.

[Stanislav]

Ok, same logic though, wouldn't the 5% extra potency be more useful for cures than 30 MP when you're likely not capped beyond the first 5 seconds of the fight anyway. I mean I get the fastcast part but that's not really changing a 3-4 second recast.

You have a very good point. I think I'd rather just not use a Hospitaler Earring.

Anyway, as for Loquacious, the fast cast is really, really nice. And Excalibur, well, I didn't mean to imply that it was useless. I just definitely don't think it's worth the currency upgrading, especially not when we have such other awesome choices (such as the ones I've mentioned, Hauteclaire, Mac+1, Templar Mace). Sure, it's a great solo sword, it's probably pretty awesome for merits, and I'd love to see some 600 damage procs on Cerberus but I seriously don't see the effectiveness on something like Tiamat where I probably parse at 10% accuracy anyway.

Seems like in order to make it work damage-wise you'd need to gear yourself for it specifically (meaning, not tank), in which case your party slot on a grand wyrm would probably be better used as a SMN who can damage it just as quickly without giving it a bit of TP, or, a SAM who can do about twice as much damage.

(And I seriously don't believe Sonix's estimate of 15,000 damage on Tiamat in 45 minutes, so don't even spout out those numbers again until you can show a parse of it.)

You have to be kidding that you think you would parse at 10% accuracy. Tiamat has like no evasion and PLD is A-? in sword, personally I also have sword merits from Ridill and I hit tiamat a lot.

[Stanislav]

Ever try DD PLD? It outparses WARs (Without ridill)

lol

lololol.

Keep in mind my PLD has full homam and full heca with HQ pieces.. Hrotti/Joyeuse does a lot of damage.. I use it to get buffer on PLD. It's not going to outparse a max merit war but a basic one it can. If you want to laugh then sure. PLD has has really high base STR.

[Ryko]

Ever try DD PLD? It outparses WARs (Without ridill)

lol

lololol.

As long as said PLD is equipped even decently, he's not kidding. Though he should have said without ridill or joyeuse I suppose.

[Awoir]

Joy/Justice PLD with good DD gear is pretty rape.

[Stanislav]

Joy/Justice PLD with good DD gear is pretty rape.

\

Hrotti works good in main hand if you want high WS

[Stellar]

Why wouldn't you macro hospitaler into cure macroes?

[Therin]

Joy/Justice PLD with good DD gear is pretty rape.

\

Hrotti works good in main hand if you want high WS

Justice/Joyeuse definitely outparses it, though.

[RKenshin]

In regards to that comparison earlier it really depends on the WAR, but it's a horrible point anyway.

I bet you could level PUP to 75, go absolutely balls to wall on all the best gear, and outparse WARs too... Any job can outparse a WAR. Any job can even outparse a MNK/WAR... I have one parse of this poorly equiped DRK/WAR almost outparsing MNK/WAR in a 75 PT.

The only real fair comparison is outparsing a decked/knowledgable player of a certain job. While I do agree a decked out DD PLD can easily beat even most above average WARs (without a ridill) and most other jobs, it's not the same for decked out WARs in my experiences.

On the topic of Tiamat accuracy you'd have to be kidding if you think anyone would have a 10% hit-rate even with 0 accuracy. I have like no staff skill at all on NIN and I'll still parse at around 20-30% accuracy over the course of a Tiamat fight, which is horribly skewed considering you miss 100% of the time when Tiamat is in the air. So even with 0 skill and no acc/DEX gear I'd say you'd still be at about a 50% hit-rate.

[Therin]

On the topic of Tiamat accuracy you'd have to be kidding if you think anyone would have a 10% hit-rate even with 0 accuracy. I have like no staff skill at all on NIN and I'll still parse at around 20-30% accuracy over the course of a Tiamat fight, which is horribly skewed considering you miss 100% of the time when Tiamat is in the air. So even with 0 skill and no acc/DEX gear I'd say you'd still be at about a 50% hit-rate.

Well, I haven't parsed myself on it so that was really just my way of saying that I can't hit it worth shit. So yeah, it's probably higher - 50% seems to be far too high, though. I don't even hit Cerberus 50% of the time and he's much less evasive. >_>

[Stanislav]

In regards to that comparison earlier it really depends on the WAR, but it's a horrible point anyway.

I bet you could level PUP to 75, go absolutely balls to wall on all the best gear, and outparse WARs too... Any job can outparse a WAR. Any job can even outparse a MNK/WAR... I have one parse of this poorly equiped DRK/WAR almost outparsing MNK/WAR in a 75 PT.

The only real fair comparison is outparsing a decked/knowledgable player of a certain job. While I do agree a decked out DD PLD can easily beat even most above average WARs (without a ridill) and most other jobs, it's not the same for decked out WARs in my experiences.

On the topic of Tiamat accuracy you'd have to be kidding if you think anyone would have a 10% hit-rate even with 0 accuracy. I have like no staff skill at all on NIN and I'll still parse at around 20-30% accuracy over the course of a Tiamat fight, which is horribly skewed considering you miss 100% of the time when Tiamat is in the air. So even with 0 skill and no acc/DEX gear I'd say you'd still be at about a 50% hit-rate.

It was just a way to explain to him what that sword could be used for lol
But a well geared PLD can always outparse lets say a DRG or scythe/gs DRK in a burn party