Regarding septimus's front page post

[Lynsy]

Honestly, the real racist bullshit of this thread is in the thread, not the front page post...

[Credos]

Did you just compare selling drugs to stealing a chocolate bar?

It simply means just because someone broke a law 37 years ago doesn't mean his a criminal...

So if you murder someone 30 years ago but don't kill anyone after, that makes it ok?

It's not suprising you think I'm a racist, you have the logic of corky from life goes on.

[Forsakengod]

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...-headlines.jpg

[Senoska]

BRILLIANT

[divisortheory]

haha that's pretty good

[Millael]

Did you just compare selling drugs to stealing a chocolate bar?

It simply means just because someone broke a law 37 years ago doesn't mean his a criminal...

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.......


Wait. You're telling me that someone isn't a criminal for committing one or more CRIMES. You have just blown my mind.


Anyways... Imus has been fired all around now. I find this fact to be such bullshit that it offends me. How the FUCK is that statement racism? My gods.

[Onizuka]

Did you just compare selling drugs to stealing a chocolate bar?

It simply means just because someone broke a law 37 years ago doesn't mean his a criminal...

So if you murder someone 30 years ago but don't kill anyone after, that makes it ok?

It's not suprising you think I'm a racist, you have the logic of corky from life goes on.

Wow Al Sharpton killed someone? no? well i guess that's not what i meant now is it... dumb ass.

I think your like a lot of people, ignorant. So no your not racist just an ignorant idiot


On another note...do you have to talk about raping puppies or something for a thread to be locked around here now days..geez

[Eaglestrike]

Did you just compare selling drugs to stealing a chocolate bar?

It simply means just because someone broke a law 37 years ago doesn't mean his a criminal...

So if you murder someone 30 years ago but don't kill anyone after, that makes it ok?

It's not suprising you think I'm a racist, you have the logic of corky from life goes on.

Wow Al Sharpton killed someone? no? well i guess that's not what i meant now is it... dumb ass.

I think your like a lot of people, ignorant. So no your not racist just an ignorant idiot


On another note...do you have to talk about raping puppies or something for a thread to be locked around here now days..geez

Would you like to talk about raping puppies?

[Demosthenes11]

Did you just compare selling drugs to stealing a chocolate bar?

It simply means just because someone broke a law 37 years ago doesn't mean his a criminal...

So if you murder someone 30 years ago but don't kill anyone after, that makes it ok?

It's not suprising you think I'm a racist, you have the logic of corky from life goes on.

Wow Al Sharpton killed someone? no? well i guess that's not what i meant now is it... dumb ass.

I think your like a lot of people, ignorant. So no your not racist just an ignorant idiot


On another note...do you have to talk about raping puppies or something for a thread to be locked around here now days..geez

I swear, ever since I came to these forums every single thing you have ever said has made me want to beat my head into a wall, be it complete lack of coherent sentences or a complete lacking of being good at life

[Onizuka]

I swear, ever since I came to these forums every single thing you have ever said has made me want to beat my head into a wall, be it complete lack of coherent sentences or a complete lacking of being good at life

What a coincidence ever since you came to these forums with your spam posts I've always disliked you and even left for a long ass time thought you died or something well until you posted another worthless post

[Demosthenes11]

sage sundi say wut

[Tritone]

Firas I agree 100% with one of your points, and disagree 100% with another.

Islam doesn't teach hate, fanatical idiots have twisted and retaught their own version to promote their agendas. We have in almost every religion. Christianity itself has and still is twisted by some groups, to justify, and/or enable violent acts, some very disturbing acts actually. To this day we have our own version of Islamic terroroists, they are "aryan" christians, that teach hatred and bigotry, based on false rewritings of the Bible.

I totally disagree with saying "UAE players primarily RMT accounts/gil", is an unfair stereotype.
It's a fact, not an opinion.
Just because there are 4 birds in the world that don't fly, doesn't mean we are going to classify all birds as walkers, with 96% of them acting different and flying!

[Fusional]

Islam doesn't teach hate

i think you need to pay closer attention to what's being said in the Qu'aran, because it very plainly teaches muslims to hate jews, as well as going so far as to claim if a muslim sees an infidel on the streets, the infidel is to be treated as nothing more than cattle, to be taken and sold, or if it can't be sold, slain.

don't just regurgitate what you hear from apologists. read it yourself. it's plain as day.

(that said, read from an objective point of view, the bible isn't much better.)

Just because there are 4 birds in the world that don't fly, doesn't mean we are going to classify all birds as walkers, with 96% of them acting different and flying!

true, but analogies don't prove anything. in other words, you've served your purpose of illuminating a point, but you haven't done a thing to prove the innocence/guilt of anyone you're defending/attacking, as analogies are incapable of doing so.

[Eaglestrike]

(that said, read from an objective point of view, the bible isn't much better.)

The OT is nothing like that. There are some harsh laws in some of the early books but they're not laws based on race/religion afaik, just if you break the laws you'll get a beatdown, or rather, stoned to death. And most of that stuff is less significant because of the NT.

[Lordwafik]

Islam doesn't teach hate

i think you need to pay closer attention to what's being said in the Qu'aran, because it very plainly teaches muslims to hate jews, as well as going so far as to claim if a muslim sees an infidel on the streets, the infidel is to be treated as nothing more than cattle, to be taken and sold, or if it can't be sold, slain.

don't just regurgitate what you hear from apologists. read it yourself. it's plain as day.

LOL this is the first time I hear this.

Can you please show me where it says this?

[Fusional]

LOL this is the first time I hear this.

Can you please show me where it says this?

i'm having difficulty pinpointing exactly where it was referenced, as i don't own a Qu'aran myself, i only know/remember what we covered in my Ethics class.

until i can find the exact part in reference, here are some other hate-preaching excerpts from the Qu'aran:

Qu'aran 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”

Ishaq:185 “In hell I saw women hanging by their breasts. They had fathered bastards.”

Qu'aran 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides…their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”

Qu'aran 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qu'aran 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Qu'aran 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Qu'aran 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other.”

Qu'aran 4:23 “Prohibited to you are: your mothers, daughters, sisters…. Also (prohibited are) women already married, except slaves who are captives.”
(in context, this one is basically saying rape and pillage whomever you like except: etc etc)

Qu'aran 33:51 “You may have whomever you desire; there is no blame.”

these are just a few examples i found with minimal effort. i'm sure, though, none of this will be enough to convince you and i'll have to go buy a copy myself, read it with the same vigor i devoted to the God Delusion, and post all of my findings here, only to have you LOL and present some kind of fallacious defense or another.




and as far as the guy saying the bible doesn't preach hate... don't be a homer. get your head out of your ass and reread it with your "faith" in check. again, the bible isn't as ugly as the Qu'aran, but it certainly is ugly nonetheless.

i suppose i'm going to have to dig around for exact quotes there, too, because lord knows (lol) people are really good at conveniently overlooking the negative aspects of their faith.

i was sort of hoping my audience would be a bit more intelligent and worldly than that, though.

[Lordwafik]

these are just a few examples i found with minimal effort. i'm sure, though, none of this will be enough to convince you and i'll have to go buy a copy myself, read it with the same vigor i devoted to the God Delusion, and post all of my findings here, only to have you LOL and present some kind of fallacious defense or another.

Oh I read over them, some of those do seem kind of out of context, I'd rather see the whole thing of what they were saying than just 1 line. It can also be a figure of the way things are translated from arabic to english, for example you brought up :

Qu'aran 4:23 “Prohibited to you are: your mothers, daughters, sisters…. Also (prohibited are) women already married, except slaves who are captives.”
(in context, this one is basically saying rape and pillage whomever you like except: etc etc)

Whereas on another site with a translated Quran I found :

[4:23]. Prohibited for you (in marriage) are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, the sisters of your fathers, the sisters of your mothers, the daughters of your brother, the daughters of your sister, your nursing mothers, the girls who nursed from the same woman as you, the mothers of your wives, the daughters of your wives with whom you .have consummated the marriage - if the marriage has not .been consummated, you may marry the daughter. Also prohibited for you are the women who were married to your genetic sons. Also, you shall not be married to two sisters at the same time - but do not break up existing marriages. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful. .

So what's missing in yours is context (subject of marriage) aswell as the rest of the quote. Nothing about slavery, not spreading hatred. Hence why I don't beleive everything that's posted here untill I look up into it myself.

Qu'aran 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/ji ... fidels.asp

Might wanna read that.


etc etc

Everything is based on the way it's interperated, and considering you took a verse from the Quran about marriage prohibitations, and turned it into a verse about raping and pillaging, your translations are ones I wouldn't trust.

[*Shinzon*]

On an Imus note Opie and Anthony were going over the 10 top Rap songs in the country...Each of which contained the words "ho or bitch" or something along those lines. Now if you inspect the music anyone of those players from that team, not just the black girls, I'm sure you'll find they listen to it. Publicity in the United States knows no boundaries, and Al Sharpton should be thrown off the empire state building.

Edit: Didn't look if it had been posted before, just thought I'd weigh in.

[MF Perm]

On an Imus note Opie and Anthony were going over the 10 top Rap songs in the country...Each of which contained the words "ho or bitch" or something along those lines. Now if you inspect the music anyone of those players from that team, not just the black girls, I'm sure you'll find they listen to it. Publicity in the United States knows no boundaries, and Al Sharpton should be thrown off the empire state building.

Edit: Didn't look if it had been posted before, just thought I'd weigh in.

Yes, but surely rappers aren't talking about college female basketball players, it's ok to call unsuccessful black women ho's and nappy.

[Fusional]

Oh I read over them, some of those do seem kind of out of context, I'd rather see the whole thing of what they were saying than just 1 line. It can also be a figure of the way things are translated from arabic to english, for example you brought up :

Qu'aran 4:23 “Prohibited to you are: your mothers, daughters, sisters…. Also (prohibited are) women already married, except slaves who are captives.”
(in context, this one is basically saying rape and pillage whomever you like except: etc etc)

Whereas on another site with a translated Quran I found :

[quote:32d76][4:23]. Prohibited for you (in marriage) are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, the sisters of your fathers, the sisters of your mothers, the daughters of your brother, the daughters of your sister, your nursing mothers, the girls who nursed from the same woman as you, the mothers of your wives, the daughters of your wives with whom you .have consummated the marriage - if the marriage has not .been consummated, you may marry the daughter. Also prohibited for you are the women who were married to your genetic sons. Also, you shall not be married to two sisters at the same time - but do not break up existing marriages. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful. .

So what's missing in yours is context (subject of marriage) aswell as the rest of the quote. Nothing about slavery, not spreading hatred. Hence why I don't beleive everything that's posted here untill I look up into it myself.

[/quote:32d76]

it seems i misplaced the context of that quote, then, i agree.

as far as your translation defense:

"The issue of Arabic translation is rendered largely irrelevant by the existence of tafsir. Tafsir explains the verses in detail, giving the most probable intended meaning of the verses, using a variety of synonyms to avoid the possibility of misinterpretation, etc. Some tafsirs, such as Ibn Kathir's, link up the Qur'anic verses with the relevant ahadith and parts of the Sira which provide context. Tafsirs are available in all the major languages.

Islam is what its believers believe. Whenever these various red herrings are raised (e.g., "you don't know Arabic," "you're taking it out of context," etc), it is invariably in the context of some apologist's attempt to confuse infidels about what the Koran was probably intended to mean and what the prevailing Islamic orthodoxy holds true and has held true for the past approximately 1300 years. We see this quite a lot when apologists, such as Hassaballa, try to present their own private vision of Islam, sweetened up for non-Muslim westerners' consumption, and claim that everything else is "a distortion.""

Qu'aran 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/ji ... fidels.asp

Might wanna read that.

well golly, what an unbiased source! and i'm sure even though this apologist article goes out of its way to justify what's being said based on historical context and the "nature" of the text, it isn't subject to "misinterpretation" of.. oh.. most anyone that reads it. (insert more parallels to the bible)

Everything is based on the way it's interperated, and considering you took a verse from the Quran about marriage prohibitations, and turned it into a verse about raping and pillaging, your translations are ones I wouldn't trust.

considering you just used a blatantly obvious logical fallacy as a device to undermine the validity of *everything* i say based on one inaccuracy (and you only carefully chose TWO points of contention, not covering them all.. interesting!) that i even went so far as to admit afterwards...

well, i'd say i wouldn't trust your opinions, but then i'd be no better than you at argument.

reread your fallacies. (i hope i don't have to spell this one out for you, because it's a fairly popular one) and for fuck's sake, drop the modernist/apologist/relativist bullshit rhetoric. i look at the kind of crap people are spewing about how everything is different based on how we perceive it and can't help but shake my head at the fucking mess Hume has left in his wake.

and the best part about it is that the vast majority of people don't even know Hume, what he said, or how it has impacted what they say/opine today.

three cheers for the uneducated!