SMN Group 2 Merits???

[Halcyon]

Recently I've started to work on my SMN Merits (2 on Phys Acc atm).
I just wanted to know if the Magic 75 BPs are worth dumping Merit Points into.

I've heard a lot of conflicting reports on their usefulness (or lack thereof) from SMNs in my social shell, sky shell and Dynamis Shell.

So, before I merit myself into a coma I'd like to get more data on:

1. In what instances would Merited Magic BPs be useful? Most of the 'endgame' activities seem to preclude that SMNs use lv 70s Phys BPs. So what, if any, would be the use for Lv. 75 Magical BPs? Dynamis? Soloing? NMs with high physical resist? Magic Bursting?

2. Which elemental BPs would be worth meriting? SMNs physical BPs are already very limited in use (relegated to mostly using Nether Blast, or cycling through Mountain Buster, Spinning Dive & Predator Claws). Would Magical BPs be similar limited to 2-3 BPs in heavy rotation?

What sparked this question was my extra long Kirin fight that involved a lot of Fragmentation Skillchains, I was wondering if it would've been better to MB using Wind Blade rather than pumping out 300-700 dmg using Physical BPs. I'm not even sure if anyone has tested out the new 75 BPs using Magic Bursts yet or not. After 17 pages of searching I've found very little on the subject of SMN Group 2 Merits.

[OmegaKnight]

I haven't touched the meritable BPs yet, I don't recall any of the other SMN in my shell doing the same except for one.

As for Kirin, I think you're better off with Neither Blast spam. My LS just zergs him him that, he goes down pretty fast.

[nsx]

I havn't merited my smn a terrible amount, but when I finish it up I'm going to be putting 5 in Magic dmg and 5 in Phys dmg.

With the advent of summoning skill actually meaning something (i.e. increased BP accuracy w/ skill over cap) Phys Acc merits I feel are less required than before, where it was pretty much mandatory to have 5 Phys Acc/Dmg. This will depend on how high your skill is of course/what items you have access to.

I find that I end up using Diabolos quite a bit (Tia flying, cerb, Prudence, Kirin come to mind). Its a very consistant BP that gets quite a boost from Magic Dmg merits. I've seen it do upper 600s on Cerb consistantly from a magic merited smn (I do 400ish unmerited)

I can't speak to the tier2 BPs really, as I havn't personally gotten any yet. If nothing else, they seem to be fun to change things up. A smn in my LS was using them on Prudence last fight we did and it was doing better than Diabolos consistantly.

[Faranim]

IMO you shouldn't put any merits into SMN unless you literally have nothing else left. A 75 SMN with no merits is not much different from a fully merited one. In regards to your questions:

The Magical BP can do more damage than nether blast, but cost more MP and are resisted more often. I only have Thunderstorm and Heavenly Strike, but whenever I use them it's always disappointing. On mobs where the magical BP do reasonable damage, the physical BP would be stronger anyway.

Magic bursted, they can only do 700-800 damage, even on weak mobs.

For most kited fights, or where physical BP are useless, Nether Blast is usually still the best option since it's cheap and can't be resisted.

Just about the only thing SMN is useful for at end-game is to kill Tiamat. And you use Physical BP for that.

[Halcyon]

IMO you shouldn't put any merits into SMN unless you literally have nothing else left. A 75 SMN with no merits is not much different from a fully merited one.

I find that the Phy Acc merits help somewhat ^_^ And I'd assume that the Phys Att merits would also help raise the avg dmg for the Lv 70 BPs.
I have a WAR75 but LOL@Me ever getting to use it for anything other than Meripo. So, as for 'endgame' stuff I'm usually stuck on SMN.

The Magical BP can do more damage than nether blast, but cost more MP and are resisted more often.

Is the resist rate more or less than BLM magic? I've never used Magic BPs before but I'd assume the MP cost/resist rate would be similar? IDK.

I only have Thunderstorm and Heavenly Strike, but whenever I use them it's always disappointing.

Under what conditions do you use your Magic BPs? On what mobs?

On mobs where the magical BP do reasonable damage, the physical BP would be stronger anyway.

Even on mobs with Phys resistance?

Magic bursted, they can only do 700-800 damage, even on weak mobs.

That's pretty gross but still much better than the 300-700 I've been getting from Physical BPs.

For most kited fights, or where physical BP are useless, Nether Blast is usually still the best option since it's cheap and can't be resisted.

(T_T)

Just about the only thing SMN is useful for at end-game is to kill Tiamat. And you use Physical BP for that.

If that's true then why does every LS I run into always ask for SMNs in Sea? Hmm. What are the 'advantages' of SMN in Sea over normal DD, if any? IDGI

[Sidanoir]

Same advantage SMN have on Tiamat..
Sure you can manaburn Tiamat down but BLMs will undoubtedly get hate after a while...
SMN will never pull hate.

Good consistent hate free, nearly TP less damage (unless the retard summoners assault it).

[Halcyon]

Same advantage SMN have on Tiamat..
Sure you can manaburn Tiamat down but BLMs will undoubtedly get hate after a while...
SMN will never pull hate.

Good consistent hate free, nearly TP less damage (unless the retard summoners assault it).

I see now. I thought the original reply was saying SMN was only good for Tiamat, which would suck considering the amount of time I spent to lvl SMN.

[Sidanoir]

Jailer of Love its quite common to see SMN damage cause its a long fight, his TP is horrible and his magic immunity constantly changes....
SMN does pretty well on most end game mobs you have nothing to worry about but flexbility is always the best thing for anyone in a HNMLS (job wise)

[Jeryhn]

My Merits:

8x summoning skill.
5x Avatar Physical Attack
5x Avatar Magical Attack
And 1x in each of the meritable Bloodpacts.

Accuracy merits are largely unnecessary given how easy it is to achieve summoning skill above the 269 cap at 75. Standard gear like Evoker's Ring, Summoning Torque, Summoner's Bracers, and Evoker's Horn or Austere/Penance Hat will easily put a summoner near 300 skill, which is a ton of extra accuracy, and about enough to extend Ward durations to maximum.

Thanks to the summoning skill update, the absolute most valuable piece of a summoner's gear are the Summoner's Bracers. +25 MP, Bloodpact timer -2, Enhance Avatar Accuracy and summoning skill +10 is fucking rediculous.

In terms of usefulness of the meritable Bloodpacts, they're all magical. As such, they have the advantages and disadvantages of being so. They can and will be resisted if your summoning skill isn't up to par. They cost a little bit more MP than the level 70 pacts, which usually perform better because they're physical attacks.

As far as magical Bloodpacts go, Nether Blast is king for MP cost vs. actual damage dealt. Since it will always hit for 100% accuracy, you never have to worry about resists either, unless the mob has some kind of flat magic resistance like a CoP Wyrm. However, individually each of the meritable Bloodpacts are stronger than Nether Blast when unresisted. The absolute best way to increase their strength is through Avatar Magic Attack merits. This will help Nether Blast, the meritables and also spirit magic damage if you use them at all.

I'm also of the opinion of putting a single upgrade into each Bloodpact rather than stack merits into any one Bloodpact. +20 TP Bonus is a joke, for every 20 TP you'll experience about a 10-12 damage increase. Better to have a wider selection of Bloodpacts on hand to exploit elemental weaknesses.

As far as how each Bloodpact differs, they are all exactly the same strength (Ramuh's Thunder pact does no more damage than Titan's Earth pact), same as their Tier II and Tier IV elemental spells. The only difference is that Titan's Geocrush adds a Stun effect, which I've used to stun things like Vrtra numerous times.

Overall my merit build is set to maximize damage on both physical and magical attacks, and I deal with accuracy through summoning skill. Nether Blast in particular gets a big boost from this setup because its accuracy is already at 100%.

[Julian]

Save your merits for your war.

When you're bored and have nothing left to do, then merit smn.

The thier2 abilities are laughable, and very useless.

Personally when I'm done getting the 200+ merits I still need for my other jobs, I might consider putting 1 merit into each BP, just for the sake of having them.

[Halcyon]

My Merits:

8x summoning skill.
5x Avatar Physical Attack
5x Avatar Magical Attack
And 1x in each of the meritable Bloodpacts.

Accuracy merits are largely unnecessary given how easy it is to achieve summoning skill above the 269 cap at 75. Standard gear like Evoker's Ring, Summoning Torque, Summoner's Bracers, and Evoker's Horn or Austere/Penance Hat will easily put a summoner near 300 skill, which is a ton of extra accuracy, and about enough to extend Ward durations to maximum.

Thanks to the summoning skill update, the absolute most valuable piece of a summoner's gear are the Summoner's Bracers. +25 MP, Bloodpact timer -2, Enhance Avatar Accuracy and summoning skill +10 is fucking rediculous.

In terms of usefulness of the meritable Bloodpacts, they're all magical. As such, they have the advantages and disadvantages of being so. They can and will be resisted if your summoning skill isn't up to par. They cost a little bit more MP than the level 70 pacts, which usually perform better because they're physical attacks.

As far as magical Bloodpacts go, Nether Blast is king for MP cost vs. actual damage dealt. Since it will always hit for 100% accuracy, you never have to worry about resists either, unless the mob has some kind of flat magic resistance like a CoP Wyrm. However, individually each of the meritable Bloodpacts are stronger than Nether Blast when unresisted. The absolute best way to increase their strength is through Avatar Magic Attack merits. This will help Nether Blast, the meritables and also spirit magic damage if you use them at all.

I'm also of the opinion of putting a single upgrade into each Bloodpact rather than stack merits into any one Bloodpact. +20 TP Bonus is a joke, for every 20 TP you'll experience about a 10-12 damage increase. Better to have a wider selection of Bloodpacts on hand to exploit elemental weaknesses.

As far as how each Bloodpact differs, they are all exactly the same strength (Ramuh's Thunder pact does no more damage than Titan's Earth pact), same as their Tier II and Tier IV elemental spells. The only difference is that Titan's Geocrush adds a Stun effect, which I've used to stun things like Vrtra numerous times.

Overall my merit build is set to maximize damage on both physical and magical attacks, and I deal with accuracy through summoning skill. Nether Blast in particular gets a big boost from this setup because its accuracy is already at 100%.

This is by far the most comprehensive and informative reply I've received.

Thank you Jeryhn. I may/may not decide to dump merits into the 75 BPs.
At the worst, I think I'll get Wind Blade and test it out before unlocking anything else (in Group 2).

As for Group 1 Merits, I really wasn't aware that SMN Skill affected SMN Avatar Accuracy with respect to BPs. I had assumed that the Avatar Accuracy was limited to Assault Attacks only? Don't ask me why.
If this is true, and I can get Predator Claw/Spinning Dive physical accuracy up through SMN Skill EQ, then I just may follow your build and go 5/5 on Attack.

Geocrush sounds like something that would be fun to try out soloing.

Although I'm not sure I want to go all out on meriting SMN Skill. In terms of mage skill, I'd like to be more flexible as I may plan to level BLM next and the additional Ele Skill on an Elf BLM would really come in handy.

Once again, thank you for the insight into EndGame SMN.

[Halcyon]

Save your merits for your war.

When you're bored and have nothing left to do, then merit smn.

The thier2 abilities are laughable, and very useless.

Personally when I'm done getting the 200+ merits I still need for my other jobs, I might consider putting 1 merit into each BP, just for the sake of having them.

While a great idea, in theory, WAR is basically useless to me in anything involving End Game. As much as I would *love* to use WAR more often, the only time I actually get to use my WAR is for Dynamis, Salvage and Merit Parties. My shell already has 4-6 WARs as it is. Hell, my server is overpopulated with WARS, what we are lacking are mage and support jobs. SMN fills both of these respective areas quite nicely.

One of the reasons I started leveling SMN is because I got sick of my WAR collecting dust when it came to "End Game".

[Jeryhn]

Thank you Jeryhn. I may/may not decide to dump merits into the 75 BPs.
At the worst, I think I'll get Wind Blade and test it out before unlocking anything else (in Group 2).

If your WAR is unmerited, I'd say you should prioritize getting some Group 2 WAR merits over unlocking the extra Bloodpacts. Nether Blast is more than enough to cover the magical damage aspect of summoner (although it gets boring), and having Tomahawk or Warrior's Charge for instances where you would use your WAR would be far more beneficial.

I'd also recommend against unlocking Wind Blade first. Reason being, it's nothing "special". I would say one of the first Bloodpacts to unlock should be Heavenly Strike or Thunderstorm (because skillchains + magicburst + threnody + elemental ninjutsu effects are typically built around these two elements) or Geocrush (for an extra method of stunning, but at long-range).

As for Group 1 Merits, I really wasn't aware that SMN Skill affected SMN Avatar Accuracy with respect to BPs. I had assumed that the Avatar Accuracy was limited to Assault Attacks only? Don't ask me why.
If this is true, and I can get Predator Claw/Spinning Dive physical accuracy up through SMN Skill EQ, then I just may follow your build and go 5/5 on Attack.

When the changes to summoning skill were made, SE announced specifically that summoning skill over your natural cap will effect Rage Bloodpact accuracy. In my experience, this is true, especially with the meritable Bloodpacts.

Although I'm not sure I want to go all out on meriting SMN Skill. In terms of mage skill, I'd like to be more flexible as I may plan to level BLM next and the additional Ele Skill on an Elf BLM would really come in handy.

Overall, summoning skill isn't an "ideal" place to set magic merits, but I did it because SMN was my main, and even though I have RDM to 75, enfeebling magic is largely a crapshoot if an HNM is going to resist a specific debuff. However, you really don't have to worry about meriting summoning skill, because you can easily hit 300 skill with easy-to-get gear.

If your endgame LS does some kind of "wishlist" system when it comes to drops, I'd suggest putting Summoner's Bracer's pretty high up the list.

[Halcyon]

If your WAR is unmerited, I'd say you should prioritize getting some Group 2 WAR merits over unlocking the extra Bloodpacts. Nether Blast is more than enough to cover the magical damage aspect of summoner (although it gets boring), and having Tomahawk or Warrior's Charge for instances where you would use your WAR would be far more beneficial.

I do have Warrior's Charge unlocked on my WAR. I just haven't put any additional merits into WAR specifically. After capping Critical Hit rate, I went straight into SMN then unlocked WC for WAR. I do plan on meriting WAR at some point but for right now, it isn't a priority. Because my SMN is used more than WAR in End Game I'm concentrating on that before I merit WAR more extensively.

I'd also recommend against unlocking Wind Blade first. Reason being, it's nothing "special". I would say one of the first Bloodpacts to unlock should be Heavenly Strike or Thunderstorm (because skillchains + magicburst + threnody + elemental ninjutsu effects are typically built around these two elements) or Geocrush (for an extra method of stunning, but at long-range).

SOLD!!!!

When the changes to summoning skill were made, SE announced specifically that summoning skill over your natural cap will effect Rage Bloodpact accuracy. In my experience, this is true, especially with the meritable Bloodpacts.

Interesting. I'm not at the natural cap for SMN skill yet (266 out of 269) but I do have -some- gear that puts me @ around 280ish on overall skill.

Overall, summoning skill isn't an "ideal" place to set magic merits, but I did it because SMN was my main, and even though I have RDM to 75, enfeebling magic is largely a crapshoot if an HNM is going to resist a specific debuff. However, you really don't have to worry about meriting summoning skill, because you can easily hit 300 skill with easy-to-get gear.

Niiiiiiiiiiiiice.

If your endgame LS does some kind of "wishlist" system when it comes to drops, I'd suggest putting Summoner's Bracer's pretty high up the list.

There is a priority system for certain jobs to get certain items but that's only natural that jobs that can obtain the most use out of an item get the item. Ironically, tonight I'm due for a Dyna-Bastok run hopefully I can get my grubby little hands on some SMN mitts. ^_^

Thank you for your insight _(._.)_

[Akroma_Seraph]

If your endgame LS does some kind of "wishlist" system when it comes to drops, I'd suggest putting Summoner's Bracer's pretty high up the list.

There is a priority system for certain jobs to get certain items but that's only natural that jobs that can obtain the most use out of an item get the item. Ironically, tonight I'm due for a Dyna-Bastok run hopefully I can get my grubby little hands on some SMN mitts. ^_^

Thank you for your insight _(._.)_

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7...bracersvv8.jpg

[evilpaul]

Like others have said...meriting SMN is pretty much a waste of time. A merited WAR or BLM can perform significantly better than one with few/no merits. A merited SMN still has pretty random BPs (excluding Nether Blast).

I might get Geocrush eventually, but since nothing's weak to earth it's pretty much just a ranged Stun BP.

[Souj]

I dont even bother giving my smn a proper exp buffer. Ive litterally Deleveled it at the very least 15times so far lol. tho I only use it for HNMs and Tonberry killin
only merits i have for smn are MP. and I got those on SAM.

[evilpaul]

I need a Sozu Sarberry sig asking my SMN "Hey guy, want some coats? lolololz"

[supercoco]

cap your avatar physical accuray and attack merits , after that... you're done

[Shiroken]

I Still dont think SMN Psycial Merits do anything for bloodpacts >_>