Counterattacks question

[divisortheory]

what order are counterattacks checked in regards to

Evade
Parry
Shadow absorb
Hit

My guess is that it's Evade > Shadow > Parry > Counter > Hit.

butd oes anyone know for sure?

[Ryko]

You can parry while shadows are up and not lose a shadow. So I assume it'd be Evade > Parry > Shadow > Counter > (I assume shield is here >) Connect, you can't parry if the mob doesn't connect but you cant counter when shadows are up so it'd have to be that.

[Blackice]

Yeah, Evade > Parry > shadow > counter. Side note also, counter is ACC based.

[Kirschy]

Random question I guess, but is the Counter from sam seigan/third eye also acc based? I notice it kicks in a good 10-15% when I use Scythe... but if I was using say an Earth Staff, would I never see it proc?

[evilpaul]

If you counter and miss it's just like not countering at all...you get hit. I don't see why Seigan's counters would be any different.

[Shuemue]

Don't forget lolguard between counter and getting smacked.

[killerx]

haha whats gaurd again

[Shuemue]

that stat hovering around 85 on my combat skills

[divisortheory]

Don't forget lolguard between counter and getting smacked.

Yea I actually wasn't really concerned with guard, only with things that generate different chat log messages. Turns out I had been calculating counter% wrong in the parser all thsi time.

[SamanosukeShiva]

so if u have more acc, you'll counter more ?

[Shuemue]

Don't forget lolguard between counter and getting smacked.

Yea I actually wasn't really concerned with guard, only with things that generate different chat log messages. Turns out I had been calculating counter% wrong in the parser all thsi time.

So my awesome 40% counter rate was false?


And to the other poster, yeah with more acc you'll counter more.

[divisortheory]

Was probably higher lol. I was counting evades, parries, and shadow absorbs in the denominator. But no telling how many times you actually got hit, it's not accurate unless you have a large sample size.

Is it true that the number

Parsed Counter Rate / Parsed Accuracy

is (in theory) invariant, and should never change across parses and players (assuming the same amount of +counter gear, merits, counterstance using etc)?

[aurik]

counter_rate = counter_chance * acc_rate,
counter_rate / acc_rate = counter_chance

Assuming 2 players have the same counter+ gear and the same merits and both are using or not using counterstance, counter_chance is invariant. Thus the ratio of the rates must be invariant as well.

[divisortheory]

Neat, so my instinct was right. I think I'll add the adjusted counter rate (counter_chance as you called it) to my parser, seems useful for testing equipment such as Melee Gaiters, which I think is still not really understood.

[RKenshin]

I've been equiping Melee Gaiters for just activating Counterstance, seeing as it apparently works the same for Temple Crown/Gaiters along with their corresponding abilities. It seems to work fine comparing counter rates with and without, although the difference hasn't striked me as being too big so far.

And yeah, accuracy has a big effect on counter rate. I've been skilling up Guard in the tree and I counter at about a 15% rate vs a 2% rate with blind potions. Using the potions help a LOT in reducing chances I counter and killing my skill up mobs/ruining a potential chance for a guard. Gone from 80 to 181 in two sessions thusfar though.

Do you have any plans to add a parry percent by the way?

[divisortheory]

yea I can probably even do that for the next release. i did a ton of redesign with the update that took like 8 months, so now it would probably take me all of 5 minutes to add just about any counter you can think of.

[RKenshin]

Awesome, that'd be great if you could.

With Parry almost capped I was hoping to do some of my own testing to see how effective it is at certain skill levels. I've seen some claims for it and Guard to be capped at like 15% but I've never seen the evidence, so I want to try and find out for myself. I've got around +68 Parrying skill in gear lined up, bringing me to total 337 Parrying without merits. I doubt it'd actually be useful but I mostly just want to try it out for curiousity sake.

With 30+ Mandragoras attacking it'd be really easy to test and get a large enough sample size too. But yeah, counting how many times I parry/get hit over 100,000+ attacks (about how many times a hit connects in an hour) isn't cool.

I'd like to try the same with Guard too if I have more success getting it capped, but that's probably too difficult to parse.

[divisortheory]

guard is difficult to parse. The only reliable way to do it is to pretty much sniff packets as they come across, decode them looking for the "play character guard animation" packet, figure out which player it corresponds to (probably contained in the packet), and count their guards that way.

Not something I really feel like doing, although I probably could if I put my mind to it. I just find myself spending so little time working on the parser as is, I know i'd get bored and just go merit or something lol.

I had never heard that parry and guard cap at 15%, if so that's awfully shitty. You have to take into accout order of operations though. If Evasion > Parry, then parry_percent = (1 - evade_chance) * parry_chance. So if you parse like 80% evasion and 10% parry, then had your evasion been 0 you would have had more like a 50% parry rate.

[RKenshin]

Yeah, that's why I want to test it and see for sure.

[divisortheory]

I could probably even include the "adjusted" figure. I did the same for counter rate and now I have a column for "parsed counter%" and "accuracy adjusted counter%" (not available yet, just playing with it privately). But I could do the same for parry as well.