Counterattacks question

[LD]

I dunno, guarded hits are pretty easy to pin-point.
If you mean a program counting them automatically, yea, that seems a mite difficult.

A significantly larger portion of people have capped Parry than those with capped Guard, I actually asked about the effectiveness of it before, and the responce, imo, reflected a sub par proc rate compared to shield or evasion.

No one seems to doubt the 15% proc rate theory.

[divisortheory]

15% what though? 15% of the total times an enemy tried to attack them, they parried? Or 15% of the times the enemy tried to attack them (not including times they evaded) they parried? I probably parry 5% of the times an enemy tries to attack me excluding evades right now, and my parry is a disgusting 120.

[Parz]

I've been equiping Melee Gaiters for just activating Counterstance, seeing as it apparently works the same for Temple Crown/Gaiters along with their corresponding abilities.

In my experience there's a very noticeable different if you leave them on for the effect, like WAR AFv2.

[RKenshin]

I can't even think of anyone off my head with capped Guard.

However, as far as Guard vs Parry I would say they're both about equal in terms of how difficult they are to skill up without outside factors in consideration. Having done sessions trying to skill up both I've found them both to skill up at about the same rate (at least so far).

But, the major problem with Guard that makes it harder is it's checked after shadows and after counters. Between those two and 99% of MNKs that exp either having shadows, counterstance, or both up at nearly all times it makes your odds of guarding extremely low. Not to mention MNKs aren't usually trying to tank mobs (although they can) as opposed to NIN or PLD.

Like, in the MNK static I was in to 75... I was actually at like 74 Guard when I got Counterstance, and another static member was at about 20 Guard. In going from that level to 75 Counterstance tanking we both got about 5 levels of guard total...

I've been equiping Melee Gaiters for just activating Counterstance, seeing as it apparently works the same for Temple Crown/Gaiters along with their corresponding abilities.

In my experience there's a very noticeable different if you leave them on for the effect, like WAR AFv2.

Is that a joke? lol

All of the "enhances xxx's" effect on WAR AF2 suck from what I've seen. D:

[skurlover]

I can't even think of anyone off my head with capped Guard.

However, as far as Guard vs Parry I would say they're both about equal in terms of how difficult they are to skill up without outside factors in consideration. Having done sessions trying to skill up both I've found them both to skill up at about the same rate (at least so far).

But, the major problem with Guard that makes it harder is it's checked after shadows and after counters. Between those two and 99% of MNKs that exp either having shadows, counterstance, or both up at nearly all times it makes your odds of guarding extremely low. Not to mention MNKs aren't usually trying to tank mobs (although they can) as opposed to NIN or PLD.

Like, in the MNK static I was in to 75... I was actually at like 74 Guard when I got Counterstance, and another static member was at about 20 Guard. In going from that level to 75 Counterstance tanking we both got about 5 levels of guard total...

I've been equiping Melee Gaiters for just activating Counterstance, seeing as it apparently works the same for Temple Crown/Gaiters along with their corresponding abilities.

In my experience there's a very noticeable different if you leave them on for the effect, like WAR AFv2.

Is that a joke? lol

All of the "enhances xxx's" effect on WAR AF2 suck from what I've seen. D:

They may suck, but my understanding of them is like "Enhances "Berserk" effect" does not increase attk but instead lessens the lowering of your defense. I'm curious as to what he means, if leaving the item on maximums the benefit (minimizes the loss).

[RKenshin]

Oh I misunderstood a bit then, I thought he meant the effect is noticeable like it's noticeable for WAR AF2 (which, it isn't really at all). I think he meant the effect only applies when it's on, just like for WAR AF2, which would make more sense.

[Ddong]

Off topic, but are you ever planning on implementing an auto-update option to dvsparse?

[divisortheory]

If someone else gives me code to do it, I'll happily incorporate it.

[Kirschy]

Parry caps at 25%. It's very easy to see if you use one of the 1DMG staff/plm/GKT. My DRK/NIN with 200 Parry capped at 25% parry rate outside Beauc markings on the tigers there. My NIN with 25x(I forget what it was at the time) had the same 25% parry cap.

Through doing a lot of parry skill up... and a ton of parses, I get the impression that it involves parry skill and yourAGI vs mobsAGI. When you have the time to get hit by a few mobs (esp the ones that hit twice), it's easy to get a large data size and see trends.

[geno]

I can't even think of anyone off my head with capped Guard.

Fairly unrelated to the rest of this thread, but I'm pretty sure I know of at least one on Shiva. Superstarmars. The gilseller galka MNK who tanked Amemet and his placeholders, and devil mantas for months on end without leaving the zone. I think hes banned now, but I just thought it was pretty funny lol.

[aurik]

There's a few mnks with capped guard around. 1 that i know of on asura, probably 1 or 2 that I don't know of.

Gradient has capped guard, notably.

[Koyangi]

Screw Guard.
never ever wants to skillup lol

[divisortheory]

Yeah, that's why I want to test it and see for sure.

These are all the new fields that are going to be in the next release sometime next week.

http://kalia.ultimals.com/dvsparse/NewFields.jpg

I think filters might have been screwy, which would explain why one person's counter rate was so low (swapped parties for the second run).

Was a little harder than I thought to calculate these, lol. Evade% is calculated as:

(Times Evaded Melee + Times Evaded Ranged) / (Times Melee Critted + Times Melee Noncritted + Times Ranged Critted + Times Ranged Noncritted + Times Absorbed Melee + Times Absorbed Ranged + Times Parried + Times Countered + Times Evaded Melee + Times Evaded Ranged)

Note: It's not possible to parse Times Evaded Range, so unfortunately that's actually ignored.

parry% is calculated as:

(Times Parried) / (Times Melee Critted + Times Melee Noncritted + Times Absorbed Melee + Times Parried + Times Countered)

absorb% is calculated as:

(Times Absorbed Melee + Times Absorbed Ranged) / (Times Melee Critted + Times Melee Noncritted + Times Ranged Critted + Times Ranged Noncritted + Times Absorbed Melee + Times Absorbed Ranged + Times Countered)

[RKenshin]

Awesome, nice job... Looking forward to it.

EDIT: For Absorbs, do both anticipating an attack and having an attack take a shadow count as an absorb?

[divisortheory]

I didn't even consider anticipating an attack. Currently on taking a shadow is considered.

[RKenshin]

Anticipating is in the same spot in the order as taking a shadow, as far as what comes first (IE, evade > parry > anticipate > everything else).

[cassiraa]

Is there a "Damage Taken" and "Avg. Damage Taken" available too?

This is an awesome addition, one that I've been waiting for ^^

[Max™]

Seigan Counters (used too) prevent an Anticipate loss (or sure the hell seemed to extend it, after getting enough instances of 4 or 5 shadows with 3-5 counters to really stand out) so for Seigan (before the last update) at least Counter > Anticipate. (Post-update Counter=Anticipate apparently, as I now get instances where Counter eats my last eye)

Interesting thing about Counters, earlier while I was soloing on my lowbie war/mnk (23/11) I had just dinged, and while recapping Eva, I got an Eva skillup off a Counter proc.

So does that mean Eva+Acc somehow = Counter?

Bearsark hits the Damselfly for 46 Points of damage.
Bearsark's Evasion skill rises 0.2 Points!
The Damselfly's attack is countered by Bearsark, the Damselfly takes 48 Points of Damage.

They don't double attack, no other mobs hitting me, seemed pretty strange to see an Eva up.

Perhaps it does an Eva check, if it comes up as a miss, it does an Acc check to see if Counter procs?

[Lordwafik]

you sure they don't double attack? All flies i've encountered seem to have joyeuses equipped.

[Max™]

In Valkurm?

They're DC-EM mostly at 23, and I was watching (as my elf's animations are still new and interesting to me) eagerly hoping for that last skillup for Sturmwind.

My Attack
wait
Mob Attack
wait
Mob Attack
wait
My Attack
Eva Skillup
Counter
wait

Right in that order, and it really stood out cause the yellow made me jump a little (I knew I was like 0.1~2 from Sturmwind) and it was just as I swung twice (once for attack, once for counter) so it just had to be great axe up...

Or not