whose side are you on?

[Demosthenes11]

You are right, the reason the crime was committed was because of stupidity, and not because he was illegal. Unfortunately, and what maybe of you fail to accept, is the fact this man would not have even been in the country had the law been followed, therefore no drunk driving issue. 2 causes here, not just one.

Hi wall, how are you today?

Until you actually have a response which backs up your claims, my comment still stands

[Devek]

Protip: All Americans except those of Native American descent come from families who immigrated here.

The believe the Bering Land Bridge might have something to say about Native American immigration.

I once said that to an indian around here and I almost got murdered. I don't know what tribe he was from but they believe that they literally came "from the earth".. and to say that mentioning the land bridge offended him is quite an understatement lol.

The land bridge thing is a lie told by white devil lol.

[Kyreth]

i just want to know why its so difficult to file the correct paperwork to be here. just fill out the fucking papers, and welcome

Cue ignorance.

Because it's fucking hard to get that "welcome" unless you pocess and willing to invest at least half a million dollars. The whole point of a lot of people who want to come to the U.S. is because they do not have that and want the opportunity to earn the better living here.

The whole immigration system in America is extremely elitist. We are only willing to open the doors to people who are way better than the average American either in wealth, social status, or academic achievement/degree. That's the way America empowers itself through "immigration."

So in other words, we want better and better people to become Americans, as opposed to taking up anyone who can cross the border- so that the society itself improves.

As opposed to dragging the entire system downwards and the opposite direction. There's something wrong with this? The concept that people coming into our country should enjoy a legitimate standard of existence that any other American can achieve with the resources available?

That's my beef with illegal immigrants. They're used- and I do mean used- to keep the status quo, rather than dealing with the social issues their bodies are being exploited to cover. I don't want them in my America, because as long as we continue to let them in, those issues will be ignored. And I come from immigrant stock- my grandparents weren't US citizens, they were immigrant kids. I don't care if the USA is white, black, yellow, red, Hispanic, whatever- but I want those people to be Americans, and I want "American" to mean something more than a society built on abusing human beings.

Fuck, I was hoping we learned better from slavery a few centuries back. Guess not, eh?

So yes. Build the fences. Raise them high, put guards on em with tranq guns and toss their tresspassing, KOed asses on a truck back to the border and dump them there. Preferrably with a nice tattoo that reads "cannot enter USA". Treat illegal immigrants that are found in the country with extreme prejudice and kick them out of the country.

Be "elitist" on who we want in the country, because we're not a nation of immigrants anymore. The "bring us your poor" is over with, we're not a nation full of vast tracts of land looking for settlers anymore who only need a strong back and a mule. We need people who bring what America needs- and we don't need thousands of people who can't speak the language and are only useful as nameless, undocumented hands that are frequently treated no better than the slaves we emancipated in the 1800's.

Yes, illegal immigrants are looking for a better life. They're also the means by which US citizens are denied a better life- and I'm a citizen. My countrymen and women come first. Come in lawfully, or don't come in at all.

[GRT]

i just want to know why its so difficult to file the correct paperwork to be here. just fill out the fucking papers, and welcome

Cue ignorance.

Because it's fucking hard to get that "welcome" unless you pocess and willing to invest at least half a million dollars. The whole point of a lot of people who want to come to the U.S. is because they do not have that and want the opportunity to earn the better living here.

The whole immigration system in America is extremely elitist. We are only willing to open the doors to people who are way better than the average American either in wealth, social status, or academic achievement/degree. That's the way America empowers itself through "immigration."

So in other words, we want better and better people to become Americans, as opposed to taking up anyone who can cross the border- so that the society itself improves.

As opposed to dragging the entire system downwards and the opposite direction. There's something wrong with this? The concept that people coming into our country should enjoy a legitimate standard of existence that any other American can achieve with the resources available?

That's my beef with illegal immigrants. They're used- and I do mean used- to keep the status quo, rather than dealing with the social issues their bodies are being exploited to cover. I don't want them in my America, because as long as we continue to let them in, those issues will be ignored. And I come from immigrant stock- my grandparents weren't US citizens, they were immigrant kids. I don't care if the USA is white, black, yellow, red, Hispanic, whatever- but I want those people to be Americans, and I want "American" to mean something more than a society built on abusing human beings.

Fuck, I was hoping we learned better from slavery a few centuries back. Guess not, eh?

So yes. Build the fences. Raise them high, put guards on em with tranq guns and toss their tresspassing, KOed asses on a truck back to the border and dump them there. Preferrably with a nice tattoo that reads "cannot enter USA". Treat illegal immigrants that are found in the country with extreme prejudice and kick them out of the country.

Be "elitist" on who we want in the country, because we're not a nation of immigrants anymore. The "bring us your poor" is over with, we're not a nation full of vast tracts of land looking for settlers anymore who only need a strong back and a mule. We need people who bring what America needs- and we don't need thousands of people who can't speak the language and are only useful as nameless, undocumented hands that are frequently treated no better than the slaves we emancipated in the 1800's.

Yes, illegal immigrants are looking for a better life. They're also the means by which US citizens are denied a better life- and I'm a citizen. My countrymen and women come first. Come in lawfully, or don't come in at all.

Cue ignorance again.

Did I ever friggin say it's a bad thing?

Fuck no man, I said that's how our system works, and THAT is the reason why we have illegal immigrants.

Self righteous people are so retarded.

sorry i'm a little edgy at work today

[Semitry]

By the way, the 9/11 hijackers managed legal entry into the country :/

Yeah but at least a few stayed illegally and should have been deported due to expired visas.

[Beckwin]

demothenes: Look, O'Rly was clearly trying to make a connection between illegals and drunk driving. Look, this illegal drove drunk and killed people! DEPORT EVERYONE! BUILD A WALL! Also, you keep ignoring that if the man had indeed been deported prior to the incident, another drunk driver could've killed those people. Another drunk driver probably killed other people in another place that very same night. It's a drunk driving issue.

Kyreth: who the fuck are you to talk about "my country"? Cut the elitist bullshit; you're not you father or your grandfather and you have personally done next to nothing to make this country what it is. It takes a lot of nerve to proclaim that you're a better and more deserving human being based solely on the fact that you were born in a better place.

You're also basically saying that instead of ending slavery, we should have just sent them all back to Africa. Not to say that slaves didn't try to improve their condition at all and fight the injustice, but it was popular change in opinion and advocates in the white majority that caused the end of slavery. If you think illegal immigrants willingly and knowingly enjoy the bullshit conditions they live in, I think you'd be mistaken, however its better than the alternatives south of the border for so many of them. Advocacy for illegal immigrants is also increasing; there was a huge rally in Phoenix a few months ago that made a lot of headlines.

Yes, illegal immigrants are looking for a better life. They're also the means by which US citizens are denied a better life- and I'm a citizen. My countrymen and women come first. Come in lawfully, or don't come in at all.

Oh boo-fucking-hoo, you can't get a job in lawn service or agricultural grunt-work and have to look at poor people from the window of your car.

[Fuuko]

Also, you keep ignoring that if the man had indeed been deported prior to the incident, another drunk driver could've killed those people. Another drunk driver probably killed other people in another place that very same night. It's a drunk driving issue.

How is this relevant at all to the illegal immigration side of the case? They could have been hit by a meteor too, are we "ignoring" that as well? OMG they could have been driving drunk and hit an illegal, is that relevant? At least then it would actually be solely about drunk driving like you think it is.

Your "argument", as pathetic as it is, is basically:

Even though he had been arrested/convicted 4 times, and every time they knew he was in the country illegally, when he killed the two girls. No one should focus on why he was not deported, because people die from drunk drivers all the time!

There are two reasons to get outraged about this story.

The first is the pathetic way the city deals with enforcing drunk driving laws, or how crappy the laws are themselves. As well as the general issue of drunk driving, and why people who do it should never be able to drive ever again, imo.

The second, which you, for some insane reason, refuse to acknowledge, is that. The authorities knew he was an illegal, that alone should have made them inform the federal government. They also knew he had committed crimes in the past, that should again have made them inform the federal government. The federal government then should have then deported him.

The two issue's do NOT touch each other in any way. O'Rielly is not angry that the zomg mexians are gonna come up here and drive around drunk and kill people, like you seem to think. He is angry that our immigration, and mainly the cities, policy is so god damn broken that not even convicted criminals get deported.

[finale23]

Yes, illegal immigrants are looking for a better life. They're also the means by which US citizens are denied a better life- and I'm a citizen. My countrymen and women come first. Come in lawfully, or don't come in at all.

Oh boo-fucking-hoo, you can't get a job in lawn service or agricultural grunt-work and have to look at poor people from the window of your car.

seriously, unless you're out flipping bugers full time and have absolutely no means of bettering yourself, you most likely won't be competing with illegal immigrants for jobs.

[Beckwin]

Also, you keep ignoring that if the man had indeed been deported prior to the incident, another drunk driver could've killed those people. Another drunk driver probably killed other people in another place that very same night. It's a drunk driving issue.

How is this relevant at all to the illegal immigration side of the case? They could have been hit by a meteor too, are we "ignoring" that as well? OMG they could have been driving drunk and hit an illegal, is that relevant? At least then it would actually be solely about drunk driving like you think it is.

Your "argument", as pathetic as it is, is basically:

Even though he had been arrested/convicted 4 times, and every time they knew he was in the country illegally, when he killed the two girls. No one should focus on why he was not deported, because people die from drunk drivers all the time!

There are two reasons to get outraged about this story.

The first is the pathetic way the city deals with enforcing drunk driving laws, or how crappy the laws are themselves. As well as the general issue of drunk driving, and why people who do it should never be able to drive ever again, imo.

The second, which you, for some insane reason, refuse to acknowledge, is that. The authorities knew he was an illegal, that alone should have made them inform the federal government. They also knew he had committed crimes in the past, that should again have made them inform the federal government. The federal government then should have then deported him.

The two issue's do NOT touch each other in any way. O'Rielly is not angry that the zomg mexians are gonna come up here and drive around drunk and kill people, like you seem to think. He is angry that our immigration, and mainly the cities, policy is so god damn broken that not even convicted criminals get deported.

I think you agree with me but there's some misunderstanding. I'm saying that the drunk driving issue is seperate from the immigration issue, as I believe you are. The fact that he killed those people by drunk driving had nothing to do with his immigration status, and this man's immigration status had nothing to do with people being killed by drunk driving. If protocal for the state should've been deportation after his prior arrests, then yes, the guy should've been deported. Drunk driving is drunk driving and its awful.

HOWEVER, O'Rly is taking this special case where death from drunk driving is caused by an illegal immigrant to push his views on immigration. Do you think he's not trying to play off of emotions/sympathy in this at all? He's selling it as "look, this guy is an illegal immigrant AND he's a drunk that killed innocent people," obviously trying to tie them together to further his immigration views. I suppose an equivalent would be "look, this guy has been arrested for pot before AND he raped a little girl" if the subject was marijuana laws.

Also, before you go off deporting every criminal who isn't legal to be here, I think its worthwhile to ensure that punishment would be carried out wherever they're being deported to.

[Demosthenes11]

do you even know what you sound like?
"yes, he wouldn't have been in this country had the law been followed, but his immigration status has nothing to do with this"
...what?

[Beckwin]

Do you not get it? The fact that he was driving drunk had nothing to do with his immigration status, and trying to correlate the two is fucking stupid. His immigration status had nothing to do with him driving drunk that night, only potentially where he was driving drunk. Yes, in this specific case, if the man in question had been deported those people may have not been killed that night, HOWEVER, other people were likely killed the same night by drunk drivers. The ONLY reason Bill is talking about this case is because the drunk driver happened to be an illegal immigrant. If those people were killed by a citizen drunk driver, Bill wouldn't have given a shit and the story would never have gone further than the local level.

Two. Completely. Seperate. Issues.

[jerkbox]

HOWEVER, other people were likely killed the same night by drunk drivers. The ONLY reason Bill is talking about this case is because the drunk driver happened to be an illegal immigrant.

quoted for emphasis

[Demosthenes11]

did you even listen to it? Bill was not trying to make any correlation. He was not saying illegal immigrants are drunk drivers. He simply stated that those girls would not have been killed that night if immigration laws had been followed. Other people were killed that night by drunk drivers? Great! I guess nobody cares about them because nobody in the media covered it, including Geraldo. Nobody covered the murder in California that day, so I guess nobody cares about it. Are you kidding me?
The reason this story was picked out was because the man happened to be illegal, yes. And again, his immigration status has nothing to do with the amount of alcohol he consumed. The fact is, those deaths would have been prevented, along with who knows countless others, if the law had been originally followed. It's not even hard to understand...sure other people are killed by drunk drivers, but when there is such an easy step to prevent specific cases like this...THAT is why Bill is outraged...

[finale23]

did you even listen to it? Bill was not trying to make any correlation. He was not saying illegal immigrants are drunk drivers. He simply stated that those girls would not have been killed that night if immigration laws had been followed. Other people were killed that night by drunk drivers? Great! I guess nobody cares about them because nobody in the media covered it, including Geraldo. Nobody covered the murder in California that day, so I guess nobody cares about it. Are you kidding me?
The reason this story was picked out was because the man happened to be illegal, yes. And again, his immigration status has nothing to do with the amount of alcohol he consumed. The fact is, those deaths would have been prevented, along with who knows countless others, if the law had been originally followed. It's not even hard to understand...sure other people are killed by drunk drivers, but when there is such an easy step to prevent specific cases like this...THAT is why Bill is outraged...

there were probably more people who were killed by drunkdrivers in the same day. oreilly picked this story and singled this guy out was because he just happened to be an illegal. oreilly is simply pulling your heartstrings. aren't you that naive that you couldn't sense oreilly's blatant manipulation of this entire issue?

[Demosthenes11]

are you illiterate?

[finale23]

are you illiterate?

try read between the lines. i am saying that oreilly is freaking disingenuous. dont kid yourself. he couldnt care less about those girls, he just picked the story to make a political point.

[Demosthenes11]

and you do? and Geraldo does?
He doesn't care specifically about the girls, he cares about people dying. He wants to see future murder's like this prevented, especially because it's not hard to do. Using this story to point that out is bad? Get rid of your blind hatred for anything right wing here, my god

[finale23]

and you do? and Geraldo does?
He doesn't care specifically about the girls, he cares about people dying. He wants to see future murder's like this prevented, especially because it's not hard to do. Using this story to point that out is bad? Get rid of your blind hatred for anything right wing here, my god

hah, that's rich. there are definitely more pressing social issues out there he could have covered. people die everywhere across the globle everyday for the lack of provisions or what have you. i have nothing against the guy, what i hate is his hypocritical theatrics. you give him simply too much credit than what he deserves.


Edit, typos

[Jefe]

O'reilly's argument is nothing more than a fallacy, it sounds to me like a argumentum ad concequentiam (there are a sh!t load and many variants, but I think this is the closest). If you remember from your Logic class, such argument states:

1. (Belief in) P (Illegal immigrants) leads to bad consequences (drunk driving).
2. Where the bad consequences are irrelevant to the falsity of P.
3. Therefore, P is false.


If some have (sup demos) negative thoughts about undocumented immigrants, well, that's your opinion, but O'reilly = non sequitur. Hence, this 'debate' is over.

[Demosthenes11]

thats right, look down on me because I have "negative thoughts" of people that break the law.

Also, that made 0 sense

Edit: and nice way to cover up the "illegal" with "undocumented"