Monk feet armor

[Dense]

While we on Monk foot gear anyone figure out how exactly Melee Gaiters enchances counterstance?

With merely preliminary testing, it appears to add about 10% chance to counter, while equipped during the use of Counterstance.

Here is the original lolAlla thread:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html ... =94;page=1

[Valyana]

Sorry about the moderate necro-bump, but I decided to run the math for this recently, and I don't see why people expect Dunes to be so much better than Fuma.

On top of BB/Turban/Haidate, 3% haste from fumas increases attacks/sec by (100-22)/(100-25) -> 4%.
With Haste, that becomes (100-15-22)/(100-15-25) -> 5%
With Haste and double March, (100-35-22)/(100-35-25) -> 7.5%

Without Haidate, Fumas increase attacks/sec by 3.75%, 4.6% and 6.7% respectively.

With full h2h merits, base damage is 35. Destroyers raise this to 53 for regular hits. Dune Boots bring this to 65 for kicks.

So with full Kick merits and no Kick pants, base damage/round is 53*2+0.15*(35 or 65) = 111.25 or 115.75; Dunes are a 4% increase.
With Strike Subligar, 4.8% increase.
With Melee Hose, 5.3%
With Bahamut's Hose, 5.56%.

So if you use Haidate Fumas are just as good as Dunes with no spell haste, and better if you get Haste or March.

If you use Kick pants, you need Haste and double March for Fumas to outperform--but you're using both legs and feet slots to get that 4.8-5.56% improvement, whereas Haidate+Fuma give 10.7-20%.

So, I don't see why a BB MNK who owns Haidate would use Dune Boots.

[RKenshin]

With full h2h merits, base damage is 35. Destroyers raise this to 53 for regular hits. Dune Boots bring this to 65 for kicks.

So with full Kick merits and no Kick pants, base damage/round is 53*2+0.15*(35 or 65) = 111.25 or 115.75; Dunes are a 4% increase.
With Strike Subligar, 4.8% increase.
With Melee Hose, 5.3%
With Bahamut's Hose, 5.56%.

Math is incorrect in regard to how much your damage improves when comparing the damage done with normal kicks and Dune Boots kicks. Can't calculate the damage difference between two weapons by simply saying X weapon has 50 damage and Y weapon has 100 damage, therefor Y weapon hits 200% harder. Which is also why damage/delay ratios fail.

I can tell you just from experience that the difference between bare fists and Dune Boots is usually around 2-3.5x damage higher. It's extremely easy to see in places like Salvage where I often get the feet/leg pieces released before I get a weapon.

[Deimos]

Regardless of the wrong math, I'm glad this got bumped because it gave me the opportunity to read this thread, which I had missed:

Here is the original lolAlla thread:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html ... =94;page=1

Jinghles and Shinjaku together are pure gold, make sure you take off the default filter so you can read their thoughts.

[aurik]

First, it's important to keep in mind that a lot of the research on dunes vs fuma was settled years ago in KRT. Back then, minuet x2 was the standard song-set, and most monks had only brown belt for haste. Back then, dunes were clearly superior. It may have changed now with everyone toting high haste setups and using at least 1 march everywhere.

Secondly, haste is lossy in the naive sense that if everyone engages at the same time, they don't incur weapon delay until the second attack. Which means that the shorter the fight, the more haste tends to underperform its listed value.

A simple thought experiment to show this to be the case: Imagine a player with 250 delay and a player with 500 delay engages the monster at the same time. Both players immediately swing. Thereafter, the number of swings taken by each player is floor(time / delay).

The expected result is that P1 swings twice as much as P2. However, on average this isn't the case. The total number of swings by P1 is 1 + floor(time/250). The total number of swings by P2 is 1 + floor (time/500). Because of the offset by 1, P1 only lives up to the numbers half the time--the other half he underperforms by 1 swing.

In a short fight (say against a Sea Puk or skeleton) this underperformance can lead to a significant difference between theoretical and actual output of haste.

[Shoju]

so in laymen's terms aurik, the study showed that haste (with atleast 1 song + haste gear) could out perform against Dune boots if the fight is short (ie, merit pt)? or is it still Dune boots > fuma for the merit-like parties and fuma > dune for longer fights. my mnk personally is 40, but i plan on lvling it up + getting both boots, just want to perform better in either situation.

[Talus]

No one likes Shura Sune-ate?

[Dense]

so in laymen's terms aurik, the study showed that haste (with atleast 1 song + haste gear) could out perform against Dune boots if the fight is short (ie, merit pt)? or is it still Dune boots > fuma for the merit-like parties and fuma > dune for longer fights. my mnk personally is 40, but i plan on lvling it up + getting both boots, just want to perform better in either situation.

I think you've misunderstood over the different topics being spoken about. Haste has increasing returns. The more you have, the more it's worth. What aurik is stating is that in the past Dune Boots had a much clearer margin to be chosen, since the haste options weren't what they are now (mainly B.Haidate and W.Turban). However, he's also stating that people overlook the fact that haste is not as people would generally expect. With his example, P1 with 250 delay and P2 with 500 delay, normal people would expect that the person with 250 delay attacks twice as much, but that is wrong, since the first attack round is completely even in terms of delay. Therefore, longer fights would benefit the higher haste (or reduced delay) moreso than shorter fights.

[vegetaa]

No one likes Shura Sune-ate?

If my math is correct, "Resist Gravity" can increase your attack to ~9010 (yes that's over nine thousands).

Back on topic, would you guys use Usukane Sune-Ate over Dune Boots ?

Usukane Sune-ate
[Feet] All Races
DEF:22 Accuracy+7 Attack+7 "Store TP"+7 Haste+2% Enmity+5

I think I would.

[Deftscythe]

No one likes Shura Sune-ate?

If my math is correct, "Resist Gravity" can increase your attack to ~9010 (yes that's over nine thousands).

Back on topic, would you guys use Usukane Sune-Ate over Dune Boots ?

Usukane Sune-ate
[Feet] All Races
DEF:22 Accuracy+7 Attack+7 "Store TP"+7 Haste+2% Enmity+5

I think I would.

I'd test to be certain, but I'm pretty confident Usukane would come out on top.

Edit: I keep hoping Aurik or Nagamaki will get these so we can see some hard numbers.

[Dense]

Back on topic, would you guys use Usukane Sune-Ate over Dune Boots ?

Usukane Sune-ate
[Feet] All Races
DEF:22 Accuracy+7 Attack+7 "Store TP"+7 Haste+2% Enmity+5

I think I would.

Without a doubt. They allow for replacement of accuracy in other positions (head?) and they bring other debates, such as: Dune Boots and Ohat against W.turban and Usukane feet. That would be giving up the 10acc (and the 10eva if you need it, but then you probably shouldn't consider this situation) for 7acc, but gaining 7attack, and 7% haste in favour over the kick attacks bonus. That's not even mentioning the Store TP.

[vegetaa]

That's 1 HQ Sniper on your feet Hot hot feet piece IMO.

[Priran]

usukane looks like it would shit all over dune boots.

and +enmity is always fun

[Francisco II]

Usukane Sune-ate + Usukane Somen is the correct answer.

[Amastacia]

When Aurik gets Usukane Sune-Ate, all hope of anyone ever having hate except him will be lost forever.

[Acturus]

Regardless of the wrong math, I'm glad this got bumped because it gave me the opportunity to read this thread, which I had missed:

Here is the original lolAlla thread:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html ... =94;page=1

Jinghles and Shinjaku together are pure gold, make sure you take off the default filter so you can read their thoughts.

Oh my god. I'm in that thread.

[Shoju]

so in laymen's terms aurik, the study showed that haste (with atleast 1 song + haste gear) could out perform against Dune boots if the fight is short (ie, merit pt)? or is it still Dune boots > fuma for the merit-like parties and fuma > dune for longer fights. my mnk personally is 40, but i plan on lvling it up + getting both boots, just want to perform better in either situation.

I think you've misunderstood over the different topics being spoken about. Haste has increasing returns. The more you have, the more it's worth. What aurik is stating is that in the past Dune Boots had a much clearer margin to be chosen, since the haste options weren't what they are now (mainly B.Haidate and W.Turban). However, he's also stating that people overlook the fact that haste is not as people would generally expect. With his example, P1 with 250 delay and P2 with 500 delay, normal people would expect that the person with 250 delay attacks twice as much, but that is wrong, since the first attack round is completely even in terms of delay. Therefore, longer fights would benefit the higher haste (or reduced delay) moreso than shorter fights.

ya, i probably did misunderstand over the different topics, that and adding math as a whole ontop of that just sealed the deal ;P. so in any event, dune boots >/= Usukane > fuma for xp/merit and flipped for longer fights. thanks for the clearification ;D

[Minions]

You could use Rasetsu Sune-Ate (Attack +5), Temple Gaiters (DEX+3), or Melee Gaiters (DEX+4).

Effects for Denali Gamashes:

* Strength +3
* Intelligence +3
* Mind +3
* Accuracy +5
* Magic Accuracy +3

Why you would weaponskill in anything other than these or Usukane is beyond me. STR+3 And ACC+5, Asuran's random misses with attack food could use the accuracy.

[sekaran]

Score. I got Denali Gamashes for my lv20 MNK!

[vegetaa]

You could use Rasetsu Sune-Ate (Attack +5), Temple Gaiters (DEX+3), or Melee Gaiters (DEX+4).

Effects for Denali Gamashes:

* Strength +3
* Intelligence +3
* Mind +3
* Accuracy +5
* Magic Accuracy +3

Why you would weaponskill in anything other than these or Usukane is beyond me. STR+3 And ACC+5, Asuran's random misses with attack food could use the accuracy.

Because everybody has these, amirite ?

Of course Denali Gamashes and Usukane Sune-ate are very good pieces of gear, and significant improvements over the pieces I listed above. But they're not exactly easy to obtain for the moment, if you think about it.