Anime Thread. [Prob not 56k safe]

**Elcura** · 2011-03-13 04:54

Homura's a dick, but she has a reason to be so. The way she treats the cast is understandable considering that, but ultimately you can still see she cares deeply and is concerned. Not just for Madoka, but the last episodes you see she cared for Kyoko and Sayaka. Whether that's an extension of her love for Madoka really doesn't matter. Oh yeah, she even tried to help Mami who basically dug her own grave because of her pride.

But if you look around at the cast, a lot of the characters are unlikeable. Madoka is stupid sweet and annoying, Homura is distant and cold (but badass), Sayaka is stupidly stubborn... I guess only Kyoko is cool, when she isn't being a troll. Oh yeah Mami... well, she's dead.

Spoiler: show

**Kaylia** · 2011-03-13 05:23

I edited that part out of my last post, but I agree, it's just that Homura seemed to be one notch above the rest of the crew. Mami was selfish and pretentious, Homura is a dick, and Kyoko was for the most part a dick. Sayaka was the only character I liked, or at least, I did until she went emo

Madoka might be the most boring, but I can't hate her for being "too nice",

And you're right about Homura's action, I didnt notice that at all. Kyubey would have been alive though, so it wasnt really a good end.

**Gokulo** · 2011-03-13 05:29

Originally Posted by Elcura

Spoiler: show

**Kaylia** · 2011-03-13 05:33

Can't blame someone for something they couldn't predict....beside, I'm sure it will end up saving the world anyway.

**Zilong** · 2011-03-13 05:55

QB didn't meet his quota until Madoka started the Instrumentality though, so as long as the little fucker exists, shit would still go sour with or without Homuhomu looping shit up.

And I loved Homura right off the bat since she was voiced by Chiwa Saito, but the last few episodes is just amazing as far as her character development goes. Her obsession with Madoka is understandable since the only reason of her existence is to save her. I actually hate Sayaka because her idealism is about as annoying as Madoka's naivete, I kinda liked her better when she was broken down. I liked Kyouko at start, but her whole 180 on Sayaka is still one of the iffier part of the show. I mean I get how she is empathic since the circumstances of her wish is similar, but I just felt that going that far out of her way to save someone that she just tried to skewer just 2 episodes ago randomly feels pretty forced.

Seriously though, Sayaka has been nothing but a thorn in Homura's side the entire series. She bought Mami enough time to interfere and allow QB to actually have prolonged contact with Madoka instead of being mounted on Homura's wall, she pretty much set the seed of distrust toward Homura the entire time she's alive (on multiple timeline at that!), she gave QB more reason to entice Madoka, and she took out Kyouko who was supposed to be helping Homura on Walpurgis Nacht.

If I was Homura, my next loop would begin with a grenade on her residence.

**Gokulo** · 2011-03-13 06:18

Originally Posted by Zilong

I mean I get how she is empathic since the circumstances of her wish is similar, but I just felt that going that far out of her way to save someone that she just tried to skewer just 2 episodes ago randomly feels pretty forced.

I dunno, it actually felt like a natural development for me. I think she was so persistently going after Sayaka at start because of the same feelings, but fought them and reacted in such a way instead at first. Then, after learning the truth she was afraid for Sayaka because she knew that she might break down easily and her feeling might lead to something bad (which turned out to her becoming a witch).

**Kaylia** · 2011-03-13 06:44

Originally Posted by Zilong

QB didn't meet his quota until Madoka started the Instrumentality though, so as long as the little fucker exists, shit would still go sour with or without Homuhomu looping shit up.

And I loved Homura right off the bat since she was voiced by Chiwa Saito, but the last few episodes is just amazing as far as her character development goes. Her obsession with Madoka is understandable since the only reason of her existence is to save her. I actually hate Sayaka because her idealism is about as annoying as Madoka's naivete, I kinda liked her better when she was broken down. I liked Kyouko at start, but her whole 180 on Sayaka is still one of the iffier part of the show. I mean I get how she is empathic since the circumstances of her wish is similar, but I just felt that going that far out of her way to save someone that she just tried to skewer just 2 episodes ago randomly feels pretty forced.

Seriously though, Sayaka has been nothing but a thorn in Homura's side the entire series. She bought Mami enough time to interfere and allow QB to actually have prolonged contact with Madoka instead of being mounted on Homura's wall, she pretty much set the seed of distrust toward Homura the entire time she's alive (on multiple timeline at that!), she gave QB more reason to entice Madoka, and she took out Kyouko who was supposed to be helping Homura on Walpurgis Nacht.

If I was Homura, my next loop would begin with a grenade on her residence.

At least, Sayaka's behavior is somewhat close to what you could expect from a human being, where Homura's philosophy is some bullshit you see exclusively in animes and j-rpg.

In the current arc, I think Homura is at fault for misleading people with her dickish attitude. She did more harm than anyone else by pretending to be the "bad guy". Hell almost everything could have been avoided if she was more sincere with other.

Early Sayaka and late Kyoko are the only character I thought were well written. Madoka, Homura, early Kyoko and late Sayaka stinks of anime cliché.

**Elcura** · 2011-03-13 07:02

Originally Posted by Kaylia

Early Sayaka and late Kyoko are the only character I thought were well written. Madoka, Homura, early Kyoko and late Sayaka stinks of anime cliché.

I agree with you there, though I think the anime cliche is working for Homura, now more than ever because of the latest episode.

Sayaka was great until she stopped listening to people and became really stubborn (when she declined the grief seed is when it went downhill - dumbass move). Before her stubbornness wasn't really hurting anyone but herself, and even though late Sayaka was pretty stupid, it was still great to see how her ideals got her there. To see her break down was great, and conversely to see Kyoko be more than just some random antagonist from another city was great too.

Their relationship was heads above Homura and Madoka until the last episode.

Homura is definitely at fault for the way things were, but in her state of mind you can see she's going for a trial and error thing. Though we won't see another cycle (this isn't Endless Eight), I would bet that if Homura failed this time around, she would go back and try things differently.

As an observer, who's rational and calm it's easy to see what the right thing to do is. But in Homura's place, her mind must be a choatic mess from all she's experienced, so I doubt she's being rational and analyzing the situation properly. From what I've seen of Homura, she seems the type to find a plan, stick to it and follow it through, then deal with the consequences after. Whether that works for her has yet to be seen.

But there's no doubt she could've handled it better lol.

edit:

What I don't get about Kyubey's actions is what happens after Madoka becomes the strongest witch? I mean, he might not care being an alien and all and can jet off to some far-away place, but... if she's that strong wouldn't she cause more havoc to them eventually? How would they plan to stop her if the only thing that could beat her is probably Madoka?

Maybe Kyubey's race is incredibly short-sighted, and doesn't care about the repercussions of making Madoka a witch just yet. Or maybe even ever.

**Sylvrdragon** · 2011-03-13 07:24

90% of conflict in Anime could be resolved by a long conversation over a cup of coffee. I've come to accept that fictional protagonists are almost always going to do things the hard way.

Madoka:

Spoiler: show

**Zilong** · 2011-03-13 09:27

Originally Posted by Kaylia

At least, Sayaka's behavior is somewhat close to what you could expect from a human being, where Homura's philosophy is some bullshit you see exclusively in animes and j-rpg.

In the current arc, I think Homura is at fault for misleading people with her dickish attitude. She did more harm than anyone else by pretending to be the "bad guy". Hell almost everything could have been avoided if she was more sincere with other.

Early Sayaka and late Kyoko are the only character I thought were well written. Madoka, Homura, early Kyoko and late Sayaka stinks of anime cliché.

She probably tried that sincere path right after she saw Madoka turned into a witch in the 2nd iteration, only to get blown off by that bitch Sayaka...

I wouldn't argue later Sayaka's behavior is natural, and Homura's being cliche, but really in all honesty, the burden that Homura carried gave her more right to act like a dick than Sayaka's. Sayaka created the limitation on herself, sure QB turned her into a lich and all, but if the guy meant that much for her, she shouldn't have cared whatever state of being she was, and just go for it. She's a coward for not facing that and just blamed it on her body being what it was, and just used playing hero as a way to just escape it all, at least that's the way I see it. I do admit that her last speech before she turned into a witch was pretty great, on saying for each happiness, there is an equal amount of misfortune that the Puella Magi has to carry.

Anyway, on the topic of Homura being a dick to everyone, she did decide that no matter what she does, nobody will believe her, and considering the last time the truth came out, she almost got killed by Mami, I'm sure she's really wary about that. Plus there is the whole her first time appearing to Sayaka and Madoka while trying to murder QB, who would believe her that the stuffed animal is the fucking devil himself, and that she's doing you a favor by offing him?

**Kaylia** · 2011-03-13 09:54

I hate losing huge post right when I'm about to click send...so annoying

Anyway..despite all my complains, I still think that Madoka is fairly well written, especially compared to most animes we get. It's just that a few plot device are more forced than they should be.

Originally Posted by Elcura

What I don't get about Kyubey's actions is what happens after Madoka becomes the strongest witch? I mean, he might not care being an alien and all and can jet off to some far-away place, but... if she's that strong wouldn't she cause more havoc to them eventually? How would they plan to stop her if the only thing that could beat her is probably Madoka?

Maybe Kyubey's race is incredibly short-sighted, and doesn't care about the repercussions of making Madoka a witch just yet. Or maybe even ever.

Remember Guren Lagann? I think it's the same deal here. Madoka is going to pull off a Giga Drill Breakers and succesfully overcome the 0% odd calculated by Kyubey. You just need to replace "spiral power" with young girl's angst, but the concept is similar.

Personally, I think it's one of these questions that is better left unanswered. We don't need to know the details behind their reasoning, all that matter is the conclusion they reached, and why this conclusion will be wrong (emotions created a loophole).

Sayaka was great until she stopped listening to people and became really stubborn (when she declined the grief seed is when it went downhill - dumbass move). Before her stubbornness wasn't really hurting anyone but herself, and even though late Sayaka was pretty stupid, it was still great to see how her ideals got her there. To see her break down was great, and conversely to see Kyoko be more than just some random antagonist from another city was great too.

What I hated the most is how they used Mami's death as a plot device to create the misunderstanding between her and Homura. I'm sure thing would have been very different if someone had tried to clear that misunderstanding... or if Homura had done thing slightly differently. In the end, nothing would have changed, but it would be better character development for these characters.

Either way, I thought the writers missed the boat with Sayaka near the end. They had more than enough material to bring her down without using her stubborness as an excuse to refuse help. The realisation that she was weaker, the way her friend stole the guy she loved, and the truth about puella magi were more than enough to explain her despair. The scene where she refused help was just bad for both character (made homura look like a complete asshole, and Sayaka was stupid for not accepting it). Kyoko did get bonus points though.

Originally Posted by Sylvrdragon

90% of conflict in Anime could be resolved by a long conversation over a cup of coffee. I've come to accept that fictional protagonists are almost always going to do things the hard way.

Madoka:

Spoiler: show

This is still one of my biggest pet peeves. I can accept it, but this is usually the main difference between a 9/10 and 10/10. It doesnt matter if its a drama, a comedy, a shonen, a mahou shoujo, the character's behavior need to be consistant, not just when it's conveniant for the plot.

And I agree that Homura's obsession for Madoka is bad. It's mostly why I still can't like her despite her flashback.

**Kaylia** · 2011-03-13 10:48

Originally Posted by Zilong

She probably tried that sincere path right after she saw Madoka turned into a witch in the 2nd iteration, only to get blown off by that bitch Sayaka...

I understand the show is telling us she is trying very hard, but all I see is half assed attempt. That's what bother me the most with her character. If they wanted me to care for her, they should show me the good part.

I wouldn't argue later Sayaka's behavior is natural, and Homura's being cliche, but really in all honesty, the burden that Homura carried gave her more right to act like a dick than Sayaka's. Sayaka created the limitation on herself, sure QB turned her into a lich and all, but if the guy meant that much for her, she shouldn't have cared whatever state of being she was, and just go for it. She's a coward for not facing that and just blamed it on her body being what it was, and just used playing hero as a way to just escape it all, at least that's the way I see it. I do admit that her last speech before she turned into a witch was pretty great, on saying for each happiness, there is an equal amount of misfortune that the Puella Magi has to carry.

Did you forget that Homura tried to kill herself in the very first arc for an even more stupid reason? Given the circumstance, I wouldn't call Sayaka's "weak". She put up with a lot of bullshit before snapping, and her situation wasn't particularly bright either..

But really, you can't compare both situation. Homura always had a way out since the day she was saved by Madoka. She could go back to a better place whenever she wanted and start over. She might be jaded and apathic after so many faillures, but her crush still serve as a drive to move forward. If I had to be in one of the girl's place, I would choose her in a heartbeat. She is the only one who actually has a chance of making thing better, and even Madoka knew that.

You say that Sayaka blamed it on her body, but I don't think it was the case. She thought she turned into a monster because when she regreted saving her friend, not because her soul was in a jewel. She was already emotionally unstable at that point (wouldnt live long as a puella magi, lost the guy she like, still shaken by the death of Mami), but this realisation is what pushed her on a downhill slope.

**BerenTebogo** · 2011-03-13 22:57

Interrupting this riveting conversation to say "WTF Gundam 00 movie ending / plot?!"

Also, Trans-Graham!

**Zilong** · 2011-03-13 23:45

shit sucked, all there is to it

**kareface** · 2011-03-14 00:02

Originally Posted by SathFenrir

Interrupting this riveting conversation to say "WTF Gundam 00 movie ending / plot?!"

Also, Trans-Graham!

Seconded. It was fucking out of nowhere. There was this well established plot line that easily could have continued to develop in a reasonable direction, no, wait, let's toss in some fucking random ass plot that had nothing to do with anything that came before it.

**Zilong** · 2011-03-14 01:19

So apparently, they didn't air Kore wa Zombie because of explosions and whatever in the episode.

Between the power outage, and the Walpurgis Nacht scenery, the chance that ep 11 will be shown on Thursday is somewhat slim :/

**Vaspinne** · 2011-03-14 02:10

Originally Posted by SathFenrir

Interrupting this riveting conversation to say "WTF Gundam 00 movie ending / plot?!"

Also, Trans-Graham!

On a related note, Gundam Unicorn OVA 3 came out and it was pretty good. Maybe watch that to get over the 00 movie ending? >_>

**Maguspk** · 2011-03-14 02:27

Originally Posted by Zilong

So apparently, they didn't air Kore wa Zombie because of explosions and whatever in the episode.

Between the power outage, and the Walpurgis Nacht scenery, the chance that ep 11 will be shown on Thursday is somewhat slim :/

If I don't get the next exciting installment of Mahou Shoujo Homura Magica, so help me God.

**BerenTebogo** · 2011-03-14 06:55

Originally Posted by Vaspinne

On a related note, Gundam Unicorn OVA 3 came out and it was pretty good. Maybe watch that to get over the 00 movie ending? >_>

Watched it a day before I watched the movie :/

Do need to rewatch all 3 ep though. The story is hard to follow without a refresher watch.

**Gokulo** · 2011-03-14 07:03

Originally Posted by SathFenrir

Do need to rewatch all 3 ep though. The story is hard to follow without a refresher watch.

Yeah, I think I'll just wait till it's all out and then watch it all at once.

Thread: Anime Thread. [Prob not 56k safe]

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