Anime Thread. [Prob not 56k safe]

[arus2001]

Some people just need to drop the dub hate, too. This isn't to say all dubs are good, but I'd rather have people a series because it's been dubbed than never watch it at all.

[Maguspk]

Well at least I feel my disdain for him is a bit justified.

Oh yeah, I recommended Higashi no Eden like 2 summers ago or something when I watched it and just recently he was trying to tell me about this awesome new anime on Netflix called 'Eden of the East'. I wanted to punch him in the face.

Edit @arus: Well yeah, he wasn't going to download TTGL so I had to compromise and convince him to just watch it dubbed. Of course he loved it but I'd much rather he just watch the original instead. Sure some dubs are good but I think sometimes things are lost when you try to say them in english and some dub voices are just really bad. Just youtube Kamina dub from TTGL and you'll see, it sounds so forced and scripted. His 'Who the hell do you think we are' is horrible.

[Avvesione]

The one thing I've learned when it comes to anime is that everyone has different opinions on everything. Everyone has different reactions and different preferences when it comes to shows. Some people will not like a show or get bored with it while others simply can't get enough and want to watch the series again and again until they collapse. There are also some who prefer dubs and there are some who ABSOLUTELY HATE DUBS NO MATTER WHAT! It often causes me to get angry when I see people praise shitty anime and never give the good shows a chance (although I did that for a while) or when they complain about everything they watch. But there's something nice to all those differing opinions. It's kinda fun to talk to someone about something and they can bring up things you never noticed/realized and then you can discuss it into finer detail. And always, you can get recommendations that way, too. For example, some of my most cherished and loves series of all-time have come from recommendations from friends. So while these differing opinions can infuriate me sometimes, they're also one of the things I like about anime and the anime community in general.

[arus2001]

Just youtube Kamina dub from TTGL and you'll see, it sounds so forced and scripted. His 'Who the hell do you think we are' is horrible.

When anti-dub people bring situations like this up, I often ask if they speak Japanese. When they say no, I then say they have no fucking clue if the line/actor sounds bad in that native language, either. Overall, as someone who wants more mature animation to gain steam in America, I'm also loathe of the "purists" who try to piss in the cheerios of those only just getting into the scene or not treating it like an obsession. Like it or not, without those dubs and subsequent profits from licensing fees, some later show we may have come to love might not have happened.

[Elcura]

I like a good dub personally, I'd rather watch a dub done right than subs for the most part ("I CAN'T READ THINGS WHILE I'M WATCHING THEM!"). But if you've watched anime for a while, you can usually tell what's good and what's bad. And at the very least, the fact that you don't understand the language, and get all the inflections and tones etc, it makes it easier to listen to which is why some people prefer the native language.

Let's not forget that Japan generally takes voice acting a lot more seriously than America does. The quality difference can't even be compared when you have maybe a handful of good dubbed show vs years and years of competent Japanese voice acting. The reason why people want dubs to be done right is because they want more of it... they want anime to be taken more seriously in America, which is impossible with shitty dubs and stupid censorship.

[chikalin]

even though i speak japanese, i prefer a good dub over watching it in japanese unless i'm trying to work on my japanese - english being my first language, i'm quicker to understand everything in english and pick up on little things. i usually don't go with the english voices in games, because they tend to be terrible - but some anime actually has decent voiceovers. many don't, though.

i'm in the group that wants anime to be taken more seriously in america, but i wonder how much of a difference good dubs would make. so many people seem to dislike it based on little or no understanding of it.

[Serra]

I dunno how much good voice work would help overcome the stigma of "it's a cartoon, it must be childish" that so many associate with anime. Considering how much is not targeted at or even understandable by kids, it's kinda unfortunate it has that stigma. I honestly can't even imagine one of the big networks airing an anime during one of their prime-time blocks here..

[arus2001]

At this point, I think the only way you can really hope to break that is to go for shock value. Blood, gore, foul language, mature subject matter, and so on. And don't relent on it when some angry parents walk in on their kids watching it or ignore the expected warnings pre-airing. Something like HBO or Showtime would probably have to be the pioneer, too, and only then if it picked up you'd see other networks trying to weasel into the market.

[Ker]

and omg... hellsing can't wait, for the (possibly?) last/best episode.

Don't worry they are still planning two more OVA's. 8th volume isn't the end.



Kaiji Season 2 Ep 2

Still continues to be great, the story and characters are really awesome. also The new opening is pretty good.




STEINS;GATE Ep2

better than first episode, it was more mystery and character introduction. I just hope they slow the pacing now.



^
lol

Edit

C opening
http://www.noitamina-control.jp/
Official website posted the Opening for C.

[Isiolia]

At this point, I think the only way you can really hope to break that is to go for shock value. Blood, gore, foul language, mature subject matter, and so on. And don't relent on it when some angry parents walk in on their kids watching it or ignore the expected warnings pre-airing. Something like HBO or Showtime would probably have to be the pioneer, too, and only then if it picked up you'd see other networks trying to weasel into the market.

HBO already tried it with the (short-lived) Spawn miniseries back in the day I think. Also MTV with Aeon Flux and the like I guess. I also remember the original airing for Batman the Animated Series was on prime time Sunday.

Technically, Americans aren't that averse to animated shows, provided that they're comedy. You can look back at the 60s and see the Flintstones and the Jetsons were aired in prime time. Fox obviously has no real problem making money with 'em either.

I don't think shock value is the way to go. It'd probably only serve to reinforce other stereotypes perpetuated about anime, ie, ultraviolent cartoon porn.

More generally, the genre needs more shows that aren't pandering to otaku. Best way I've found to get people to reconsider anime is find stuff that isn't a huge leap from live action they'd watch. It'll probably be more over the top, it'll probably have different pacing, etc...but it's not going from Law and Order to Gurren Lagaan, y'know?

[Tymon]

The TTGL dub's climax and most of the post-timeskip episodes are done really well. It's the start that's not very good.

There's people like the guys you have all been talking about everywhere, though. You'll go insane trying to understand.

I know a guy who tries to act like he's better than everyone by harping about never playing video games or watching TV or anything back when he was a kid, because he was too busy macking bitches and skating and a bunch of other shit like that.

Then the dude goes home, spends 8 hours on facebook, plays Farmville for like 5 hours a weekend, and calls people nerds.

lol

[arus2001]

HBO already tried it with the (short-lived) Spawn miniseries back in the day I think. Also MTV with Aeon Flux and the like I guess. I also remember the original airing for Batman the Animated Series was on prime time Sunday.

Technically, Americans aren't that averse to animated shows, provided that they're comedy. You can look back at the 60s and see the Flintstones and the Jetsons were aired in prime time. Fox obviously has no real problem making money with 'em either.

I don't think shock value is the way to go. It'd probably only serve to reinforce other stereotypes perpetuated about anime, ie, ultraviolent cartoon porn.

More generally, the genre needs more shows that aren't pandering to otaku. Best way I've found to get people to reconsider anime is find stuff that isn't a huge leap from live action they'd watch. It'll probably be more over the top, it'll probably have different pacing, etc...but it's not going from Law and Order to Gurren Lagaan, y'know?

Maybe, but I'd also say the animation quality of what few currently accepted shows we do have is crap. I don't really care for Family Guy and the like because slapstick sitcom rarely amuses me. On the other end, you get AS and their stoner programming which is just plain worse all around, nevermind being graveyard shift fodder.

Overall, some might benefit more from being weened into quality programming. Others do need that kick in the nuts to get over their misinterpretations (be it 'for kids' or 'ultraviolent cartoon porn'). I'm largely discontent with the lack of America even trying beyond the obviously kiddified Pixar/Dreamworks CGI shovelware films we've been getting the past few years. I highly doubt there's a shortage of animators out there or authors starving for work to script these programs. I'd even venture a guess it'd be far cheaper to produce than live-action programming without the need for catering, renting out locations, security, special effects, stunt men, wardrobe, make-up, and all the corresponding frills. Might it require another good Batman series like from the 90s? Maybe. Perhaps HBO's issue with Spawn was that... well, it's Spawn. Not an unknown in the hero genre, but I wouldn't call it the first pick of people when you ask 'em what they know about comics.

[Isiolia]

Maybe, but I'd also say the animation quality of what few currently accepted shows we do have is crap. I don't really care for Family Guy and the like because slapstick sitcom rarely amuses me. On the other end, you get AS and their stoner programming which is just plain worse all around, nevermind being graveyard shift fodder.

I don't disagree in general. Many American cartoons opt for what I'd consider a more utilitarian style. I can't exactly fault, say, Family Guy for its aesthetics, since it works for the kind of show it is. Even the comic book derived ones all seem to basically echo Batman the Animated Series. Archer is a bit different, at least, Venture Brothers I guess...

There are, unfortunately, too many others that basically look like Jr. High doodles, an I'm not a fan of that style.

I'm largely discontent with the lack of America even trying beyond the obviously kiddified Pixar/Dreamworks CGI shovelware films we've been getting the past few years.

Actually, in a sense, America has something of a budding OVA market - albeit one that has almost no original properties. We've had plenty of comic book derived straight to video releases, and recently video games as well (Dante's Inferno, Dead Space, Halo, etc).

Perhaps HBO's issue with Spawn was that... well, it's Spawn. Not an unknown in the hero genre, but I wouldn't call it the first pick of people when you ask 'em what they know about comics.

Eh, it was maybe a couple years too late for the peak of popularity, but it did launch the same year as the live action movie. Again though...stylistically it was still basically Batman the Animated Series. If someone was likely to know a more mature comic (well, content-wise at least), Spawn, at the time, was probably a top pick. A lot of the commonly known comics are known due to being something people read/saw old cartoons of as kids.
Maybe it was more that people weren't looking for a comic book superhero show - sex, blood, and language or not. Even with all that, the series is still basically about a superhero.

[Avvesione]

I prefer sub to dub mainly because I always prefer things to be in their original languages. That goes for things like those old kung-fu movies from the 70s and watching Simpsons in English over other languages (I've yet to meet anyone who prefers another language of the Simpsons over the original English). I'm also in the camp that would like to see anime be successful in the US but I realize that there are so many niches within the anime community that only a handful of shows would ever be worthwhile here. It'd only really be viable to males (and some females obviously) between the ages of 13-35, so they'd be shows that have to appeal the Americans within that age bracket. And even then, the shows would have to air between midnight - 2am like they do in Japan.

C opening
http://www.noitamina-control.jp/
Official website posted the Opening for C.

Well, now C makes even less sense.

I do like the animation of the OP (and that song will probably be my favorite of the season) so I hope that the animation during the show looks around that quality. I'll wait to comment on that when I see how the CGI blends with the traditional art style. Also it appears to be a economics/fighting anime now?

[Zilong]

oh god, fucking gintama

Yeah, I'm gonna have to marathon the damn thing over the summer or something

[Avvesione]

C, AnoHana, Hidan no Aria, and Denpa Onna all come out Thursday, with Deadman and Exorcist following up this weekend. Almost forgot about them with most shows entering their second week right now. Going to try all but Hidan no Aria.

[Ker]

Valkyria Chronicles 3 OVA Trailer.

Well, now C makes even less sense.

ANN did discussion with the cast of C.

Full Interview.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/inte...bility-control

Question: Question for Mr. Uchiyama and Ms. Tomatsu: From the materials I got, I can't visualize the battle sequences. You mentioned that there will be action in the show but what will the battle scenes be like? Will they resemble Yu-Gi-Oh!?

MC: There aren't any action sequences in the first episode. They will have action scenes in the next episode, though. I assume that the cast members here have read the script and have an idea of what to expect. Please give us some comments based on what you will record today.

Uchiyama: Kimimaro, who I play, gives orders to Mashu, which Tomatsu-chan plays. Kimimaro has Mashu launch an attack and fight with an opponent's asset.

MC: In other words, in the Financial District, an “Entrepreneur” has the money, and an “Asset” like Mashu is an incarnation of an “Entrepreneur”. Then, the Entrepreneur spends the money and has the asset launch an attack. Whether you win or lose, you get damaged, and you lose money.

Uchiyama: If you lose, you go bankrupt.

MC: If you lose the game and all of your property, you will be evicted from the Financial District. That's the rule.

Tomatsu: You need money for food.

MC: Yes, you need it to survive.

MC: So you fight and save money, and you will be rich. This cycle repeats itself. Simply put, that is the system.

In short this series is mix of Eden of the East and Yu-Gi-Oh.

[Sylvrdragon]

After playing FFXI for ~5 years, I've grown accustomed to reading the bottom of the screen without missing much of what's going on above. I have often wondered if the Japanese voice actors are just as bad, but until/unless I learn Japanese and find out for sure, I'm just going to embrace my ignorance and assume that they're better. I could almost think that the English VAs don't even read the script before they start recording sometimes, what with the emotion and inflection of their lines often being so far off and out of context.

Call me a snob if you want, but even the shows that I first watched dubbed, I can't stomach anymore unless they're in Japanese with subtitles.

[Xanthe]

After playing FFXI for ~5 years, I've grown accustomed to reading the bottom of the screen without missing much of what's going on above. I have often wondered if the Japanese voice actors are just as bad, but until/unless I learn Japanese and find out for sure, I'm just going to embrace my ignorance and assume that they're better. I could almost think that the English VAs don't even read the script before they start recording sometimes, what with the emotion and inflection of their lines often being so far off and out of context.

Call me a snob if you want, but even the shows that I first watched dubbed, I can't stomach anymore unless they're in Japanese with subtitles.

I do understand a decent share of Japanese thanks to my college years and I share the same sentiment. I believe another part of the problem is that the Japanese anime industry has a much larger talent pool than the American anime dubbing industry. Sure, you will find some bad Japanese voice actors, but given the larger pool to choose from those actors are less likely to be picked for bigger releases. Meanwhile in the US you often see the same names coming up for a wide range of dubs with their performance being hit or miss. Another problem with dubbing that has been touched is that some vocal mannerisms and inflections simply don't translate leaving that portion of the experience completely missing in the dubbed version. You also can run into situations where the localization team re-targets the show to a different audience than originally intended and alters tone and context (e.g. One Piece). Because anime = cartoon = for kids, right? Right?!?

I'm not saying it's impossible to find a good dub. In fact, some of the first anime I watched (Trigun, Cowboy Bebop) was dubbed. Thankfully those were good dubs or I might never have stayed interested in the medium. A few years down the road, Bleach is one of my worst dubbing experiences (though there would probably be worse if I didn't stick to subs). I caught the first ~20 episodes on CN and they were passable, but continued to watch the series subbed (and a good thing I did so before Renji appeared and Ishida got more screen time). When the first movie was being premiered in the US I decided to give it a go; I'd already seen it subbed, but I thought "Hey, big screen, why not?" Worst 90 minutes of my life ever. The voice "talent" chosen for some characters (most notably Renji) destroyed it.

As such, I'm generally of the opinion that the closer you can get to the source material the better, adaptations to different media included. That way you generally are going to be experiencing something more in line with what the creator intended. In the case of sub versus dub, a good sub will focus more on translation and less on localization. If a particular idiom or topic doesn't translate cross-culturally then it can be explained. Sub translation gets the message across while preserving the tone and inflection of the original voice talent. Dubbing lacks the fine-grained control that subbing provides.

Anyway, that's my rant on the matter.

[Elcura]

You also can run into situations where the localization team re-targets the show to a different audience than originally intended and alters tone and context (e.g. One Piece). Because anime = cartoon = for kids, right? Right?!?

This annoys me as well. I remember hearing a story about how they tried to localize Narutaru (Shadow Star), apparently they didn't watch the entire series and just looked at the intro and few couple of episodes. Apparently they thought it would be some cutesy kids show, and didn't realize how fucking violent and dark it was.

Spot on for the rest of it though, while I love a good dub, they are far and few in between.