Bahamut V.2

[Suiram]

Yeah I wasn't sure if that was saying "Stun is still good hate" or "One can still hold hate despite the lack of stun" which is also a theme in this thread.

[Kirschy]

I'm suprised anyone would use nin/war over nin/drk for Ouryu... All I had to do was leave sleep out of my normal rotation. (Unless I got roared.)

I've tanked last 5 or 6 of our LS' Baha 2s as nin/war... They went fine, and I think our fastest was 30 min. My main concern for trying /drk was if I'll have trouble getting off spells. I'm always being constantly pushed around by TP moves or Stoned/Terrored while casting. I know if you position yourself correctly you can still get spells off while being knocked back on a TP... But what about -ga and shadow stripping TPs, with fast attacks. Was casting hate spells in conjuction with keeping up Ni -> Ichi a problem?

Also your flare setup is almost identical mine... but I'm kinda confused on the Osode (and what appears to be a Thunder Ring?... Or is that an AV ring I'm not remembering?) Also out of curiosity what food did you use?

[Turlos.]

I am a paladin type, my ninja is only in the 50s, so excuse me if I am missing something really obvious here... However, on fights where stun is either ineffective or you are afraid of using it too much due to building up a resist, what would be the reason you couldn't go as NIN/RDM instead of NIN/DRK?

Obviously you just mentioned from your 8 runs last night, you found that you didn't even have to worry about the stun resists due to the speed of the fight, so maybe this is a moot point. Just was thinking without Stun, the only thing you would be missing from NIN/DRK would be the two attack bonuses and with what appears to be you using a staff that doesn't even matter here I bet.

With NIN/RDM you would still have sleep, bind, blind to spam as well as you could spam Dispel which seems to generate a decent amount of hate from what I Have seen. You also would have Fast Cast 1 & 2 Traits as well as Magic defense job trait #1.

Like I said, I might be missing something big here, but everyone keeps saying you can still use NIN/DRK even if you don't plan to stun on things like Ouryu, it just seems NIN/RDM might be even better there. Am I missing something obvious?

[Lhexh]

If you aren't using Stun at all, then NIN/RDM might be a better choice. It becomes a trade off of Dispel/Blind/FastCast/MDB Trait vs Souleater/LastResort/WeaponBash for hate. Not really sure which would be better since those DRK JAs are a pretty large source of MP free hate and you don't really need any more unique spells to add to the cycle to cap out hate. We used NIN/DRK because it let us have Ruk stun FiragaIVs himself so we wouldn't even require a RDM/DRK on the runs to begin with, although we did bring some just in case but never used Chainspell Stun or had them Stun Bahamut while Ruk tanked.

[Ashira]

Like I said, I might be missing something big here, but everyone keeps saying you can still use NIN/DRK even if you don't plan to stun on things like Ouryu, it just seems NIN/RDM might be even better there. Am I missing something obvious?

Ouryu resists Stun already, so you can just use Stun freely. The issue with Stun on Bahamut is that he will build a resistance to Stun after so many uses, and it is still needed.

[StaplerGuy]

Also your flare setup is almost identical mine... but I'm kinda confused on the Osode (and what appears to be a Thunder Ring?... Or is that an AV ring I'm not remembering?) Also out of curiosity what food did you use?

Minerva's Ring, I'd assume?

As for the Osode... I'M A RETARD (/edit lole)

[Rocl]

Ninja cannot wear Assault Breastplate <_<

[Berdysh]

Kirin's Osode for MND/INT. Ninja cannot wear Assault Breastplate or Merman's Harness/Coral scale mail.

It takes awhile for Bahamut to build a complete stun resistance, I would not worry about it too much. I figured NIN/WAR > NIN/DRK for Bahamut because I thought the scale of per-hit dmg taken would be substantially different, but apparently I figured wrong.

I would say NIN/DRK over NIN/RDM even on something that outright resists Stun. It's still strong hate when resisted, and you are already almost constantly casting something anyway - not sure if it is worth the loss of Last Resort and Souleater.

[RKenshin]

My main concern for trying /drk was if I'll have trouble getting off spells. I'm always being constantly pushed around by TP moves or Stoned/Terrored while casting. I know if you position yourself correctly you can still get spells off while being knocked back on a TP... But what about -ga and shadow stripping TPs, with fast attacks. Was casting hate spells in conjuction with keeping up Ni -> Ichi a problem?

In regards to problems with spell interruptions, I basically did what you said. There are a few corners in the battleground that you can stand and not get interrupted by any knock back attacks and it works perfectly. But, even so the spells you use for hate have a really short casting time, so getting interrupted on those is like getting interrupted on Ni.

I didn't have any problems with casting spells and still keeping shadows up though. Typically I'd refresh shadows, cast spells while I have 2-4 buffer shadows up, then refresh shadows, cast spells while I have 2-4 buffer shadows up, etc. I just did a sort of rotation with that, and the occasional Stun would buy extra time as well.

It worked fine in the end. As I mentioned in the last post the parser's results ended up coming out to like a 96% rate of avoiding melee attacks in some form, and I'm pretty sure regardless of being /WAR or /DRK that wouldn't change much.

Also your flare setup is almost identical mine... but I'm kinda confused on the Osode (and what appears to be a Thunder Ring?... Or is that an AV ring I'm not remembering?) Also out of curiosity what food did you use?

The ring is a Minerva's Ring, I borrowed it from a PLD that wasn't using. It's -8% magic damage, so it's slightly better than a Merman's. I used the Osode because well, there isn't really anything else lol. I debated using a Republic Harness for +5 fire, but for whatever it's worth I wanted to stick with the INT/MND for whatever unknown roll they could play in magic defense. (I still haven't bothered to do much research/etc on finding it out with all the speculation about it)

I realize if anything INT would be the one to effect it though. I figured a static +10 of the attribute would serve better than +5 fire resist anyway in that situation.

However, on fights where stun is either ineffective or you are afraid of using it too much due to building up a resist, what would be the reason you couldn't go as NIN/RDM instead of NIN/DRK?

I've actually never tried or heard of people I know using RDM sub, and my RDM is only level 4 to boot. It seems interesting though, and sounds like it could work good as well. I don't know of any other NINs that have tried it though, so it would be better if they could speak from their experiences with it? As opposed to my speculation.

As far as the mob's that this would be best on, only one that comes to mind at the moment is Khimera. But, I've never tanked it so really I can't say for sure.

I figured NIN/WAR > NIN/DRK for Bahamut because I thought the scale of per-hit dmg taken would be substantially different, but apparently I figured wrong.

I figured the same, it's really wierd though. Like, on Ouryu with /WAR I could take <100 damage pretty often, and I thought that'd be impossible with the major loss in defense as /DRK... But I was still taking <100 often.

I suppose I'm hitting a point of diminishing returns in defense earlier than I thought. Around like, 400-500.

[vagus]

Nin/drk works for this, it allows blm's to nuke more often. I have a feeling SE will nerf /drk for tanking sometime in the future. SE tried to move away from blm's dominating the game and ended up making them more powerful with Tier 2 and nin/drk generating enough hate and allowing blms to freely nuke. Lol.

[Zigma]

If your nin died at 88%, lol, I think you got more things to worry about than that silly charm.

I can't agree more.

[RKenshin]

Nin/drk works for this, it allows blm's to nuke more often. I have a feeling SE will nerf /drk for tanking sometime in the future. SE tried to move away from blm's dominating the game and ended up making them more powerful with Tier 2 and nin/drk generating enough hate and allowing blms to freely nuke. Lol.

Using that logic PLD/NIN and RDM/NIN should be nerfed too since they can hold hate just as strong as a NIN/DRK, as long as they know what they're doing and have the right gear. I suppose then any tank that can hold hate should be nerfed !

It's not comparable to the /BRD nerf (just to get that out there before someone makes the comparison), because you didn't even need any skill/experience/gear or anything to produce more hate than anyone else could with /BRD. I was actually happy with that nerf.

I think it's fine as it is now, because in order for /DRK to work effectively you actually need good gear and need to know what you're doing. Just like for being good at most other jobs in this game.

[Xavier]

Wouldn't NIN/RDM over NIN/DRK on Bahamut be more useful anyway, when you consider the job traits it gives you (assuming you have someone else to stun the ga's)?

Fast Cast, Resist Petrify, Magic Defense Bonus.

[Zanz L. Barre The 3rd]

Wouldn't NIN/RDM over NIN/DRK on Bahamut be more useful anyway, when you consider the job traits it gives you (assuming you have someone else to stun the ga's)?

Fast Cast, Resist Petrify, Magic Defense Bonus.

Is this a joke, or...?

I can see the trait bonus' being great, but I don't imagine hate being managed nearly as effeciently as /DRK.

Or maybe I just missed a joke. Do I see a "WHOOSH" in the near future?

[Deacon]

wooooosh

[Zanz L. Barre The 3rd]

God damn it =(

[Belkin]

If your nin died at 88%, lol, I think you got more things to worry about than that silly charm.

I can't agree more.

Naw, tanking wasn't the biggest problem...Just takes some adjusting. Its hard to get used to Bahamut's merciless onslaught especially when Slow II with 342 enfeebling magic lands 10% of the time and Elegy didn't land at all. No other mob will rape a solo tank as fast as Bahamut so it is kind of hard to prepare no? I'm more of a PLD guy anyway, we tried NIN because of the versatility with enmity, damage reduction, haste and barfira but that obviously didn't work out so we'll probably go back to old fashioned duo PLD/NIN tanks.

Thanks for the input though Zigma, much appreciated

[vagus]

Nin/drk works for this, it allows blm's to nuke more often. I have a feeling SE will nerf /drk for tanking sometime in the future. SE tried to move away from blm's dominating the game and ended up making them more powerful with Tier 2 and nin/drk generating enough hate and allowing blms to freely nuke. Lol.

Using that logic PLD/NIN and RDM/NIN should be nerfed too since they can hold hate just as strong as a NIN/DRK, as long as they know what they're doing and have the right gear. I suppose then any tank that can hold hate should be nerfed !

It's not comparable to the /BRD nerf (just to get that out there before someone makes the comparison), because you didn't even need any skill/experience/gear or anything to produce more hate than anyone else could with /BRD. I was actually happy with that nerf.

I think it's fine as it is now, because in order for /DRK to work effectively you actually need good gear and need to know what you're doing. Just like for being good at most other jobs in this game.

All true points RKenshin. I'm just going by gut feeling. SE is infamous for 'fixing' things when there going right.

[Berdysh]

Elegy will stick on Bahamut if you spam it, and NIN slow actually lands pretty reliably.

[Belkin]

I think he was spamming it for a while but eventually gave up. Because by the time we exited, he said he didn't land it once.