Summoning Torque Vs. Sacrifice Torque

[Halcyon]

Summoning Torque gives +7 summoning skill.
Sacrifice Torque has a latent effect of 'Enhances Avatar Attack'.

Which would be better for SMN/BP dmg?

I'm not sure what the correlation between smn skill and avatar dmg is (if any) but I've been told (ty Jeryhn, tho I probably fucked up the spelling) that SMN skill does aid avatars with accuracy.

I'm currently at 296 SMN skill. Would the addition of +7 smn skill make a significant impact on getting consistant BP damage? Or would the addition of 'enhancing ava attack' EQ be better?

Additionally, Avatar Pots (Lv. 61 Throwing, from ENM Pulling the Strings) enhance avatar magical attacks.

Would this work with Nether Blast considering that Nether Blast is a ranged attack that delivers darkness damage? Or would the Astral Pot only work with Tier 4 spells & Merited BPs (& possibly Astral Flow?)?

[Tonko]

SMN BP Damage Sacrifice torque by a long long shot.

Use the Skill torque for rage BPs & Magical MPs (Tier 2 merit, netherblast, etc.)

The pot does work with Nether Blast.

[yrpaine]

dmg with sac. torque is still random, i haven't seen a raise in cap (i have 5 physical att/acc af2 hands and feet also for extra att/acc). I stick with the +skill mainly for buffs and for the extra acc it's supposed to give having skill higher than cap. hastega lasting 3min is nice.

sac torque is nice though in place of poison pots for events.

[Halcyon]

I was thinking of Macroing in Sac. Torque and Astral Pot strictly for BPs (Sac. Torque for Physical and A.Pot for Magical) and then switching back to Ug.Pendant and H.Bomb.

That's the ideal situation but I'm still not sure of the benefit of Sac. Torque on BPs. I haven't seen anything conclusive yet regarding how it increases Avatar DMG.

[Tonko]

SMNs who still focus on +MP gear make me laugh.

Priority #1 to any SMN involved in end game events is hMP gear. EVERY slot except for your rings + Ammo will be swapped out for hMP gear if you do it right.

Your rings should be Evokers in one, and Tamas in 2 if you have it. If you don't then go with a +mp ring, sure. But Uggalepih Pendant for SMN is useless.

Astral pot is not a macro piece, it has a 30 second activation delay after equipping it, avatar must be out to activate it, must remain on for the effect to remain constant once activating it, and has something like a 30 minute re-use on it.

Stick to your hedgehog bomb. Use Astral pot if you're going to be Astral Flowing + repeated BPing with Diabolos while using Astral Flow for free Perp.

[Slott]

Get a beak necklace instead of uggy


same mp (or if you get hq, more mp) with hmp too.

[Jeryhn]

Summoning Torque gives +7 summoning skill.
Sacrifice Torque has a latent effect of 'Enhances Avatar Attack'.

Which would be better for SMN/BP dmg?[

Ever hear of meat vs. sushi?
Well welcome to the summoner version.

Sacrifice Torque will up the damage of your physical bloodpacts.
Summoning Torque will increase the accuracy of all bloodpacts, as long as the skill gain exceeds your skill cap.

The only Bloodpact you'll never have to worry about is Nether Blast. Wear whatever, it won't matter.

I'm currently at 296 SMN skill. Would the addition of +7 smn skill make a significant impact on getting consistant BP damage? Or would the addition of 'enhancing ava attack' EQ be better?

Depends on what you're fighting honestly, and what its weakness is, and what avatar you're using. Example: You're usually better off using Sacrifice Torque along with single-hit, accurate Bloodpacts, like Spinning Dive or Mountain Buster, and Summoning Torque for multi-hit and magical Bloodpacts, like Predator Claws or Heavenly Strike.

There's also other situations where Sacrifice Torque serves an extra purpose, like at Vrtra. The HP drain you experience while having an avatar summoned wearing this will wake you up from sleep effects. This allows you to release your avatar quickly, and even throw up a Curaga if your Cure bitch got caught slippin'.

Its all situational, there's no -one- answer. But I typically wear the Summoning Torque a majority of the time (Predator Claws and Chaotic Strike are my #1 Bloodpacts that I use).

Additionally, Avatar Pots (Lv. 61 Throwing, from ENM Pulling the Strings) enhance avatar magical attacks.

Would this work with Nether Blast considering that Nether Blast is a ranged attack that delivers darkness damage? Or would the Astral Pot only work with Tier 4 spells & Merited BPs (& possibly Astral Flow?)?

Don't rely on the Bloodpact's description. Nether Blast is definitely a magical bloodpact.
The Astral Pot will boost its damage.

[Reapz]

For me its Sac. Torque for my physical BPs and +7 skill torque for ward BPs like Hastega, for everything else, Beak Necklace+1

[Tonko]

God, why even bother with Beak Necklace +1?

As soon as you do anything, you macro swap out of it.

+MP when you do macro swaps is useless.

[Naver]

Off this topic, Do the effects of Enhance Avatar Accuracy and Enhance Avatar Attack, stack? For example, AF2 hands with AF1 legs, and Sac. Torque with AF2 feet? For me, it seems it does, but I guess it might be a placebo effect.

But on this topic, Sacrifice torque hurts my HP and MP pool at certain events where I can't Sacrifice (lolpun) those. Fafnir and Tiamat come to mind because of constant AoE's. For things like Khimaira I would use Sac. Torque. Cerberus, for me, I seem to get a better dmg dealt/mp ratio using Nether Blast.

Edit: Do Euvhi Organs exist? orz If so what's the best place to farm them?

[Tonko]

Sacrifice Torque only needs to be on you @ the moment the BP is actually performed by the avatar.

Macro in -BP timer gear for activating the BP.
Macro in +accuracy, +skill, +attack gear right after(including sac torque) for about 2 seconds.
Swap out of all of that back into hMP gear for resting/-perp gear for leaving avatar out.

[Jeryhn]

Off this topic, Do the effects of Enhance Avatar Accuracy and Enhance Avatar Attack, stack? For example, AF2 hands with AF1 legs, and Sac. Torque with AF2 feet? For me, it seems it does, but I guess it might be a placebo effect.

Yes, but the effects individually don't seem to be too much. Given how avatars are generally used, and how random their damage appears to be, you might not see too much difference.

Gotta bear in mind, Bloodpacts function a lot like Weaponskills as well. As you know, many weaponskills have naturally high power, but low accuracy, and vice versa. Adding things like Attack and Accuracy will help, but bear in mind it can't exactly be stacked as well as, let's say, a WAR could stack Attack and Accuracy to get the most out of Rampage.

The #1 reason why most summoners perform almost equally despite gear and merits is because the gear selection that specifically enhances avatars are slim pickings.

[Naver]

I was always under the assumption that all the enhance effects for avatars needed to be equip the moment the physical BP landed, so what you're saying is sacrifice torque only needs to be equipped when the mp starts being used by the avatar, then you can switch out of it and still retain the ehance effect? Or did I misintepret that?

Edit: Nevermind I did, You just use Sac torque for BP then switch back out. This is exactly my issue though, the dmg dealt to me, granted I have stoneskin on, still hurts me more than it benefits me during these heavy AoE fights.

[Halcyon]

LOL Jeryhn fucking OWNS.

Thank you all for your replies.

[Nirokun!]

one day, i'd like to use PClaws on nidhogg instead of SDive

and that day, i'll wear summoning torque over sacrifice torque

[Kirschy]

Is there any proof at all that Sacrfice Torque works on Blood Pacts? I've performed tons of tests a while ago and proved to myself that "Enhance Avatar Acc/Attk" only work on normal attacks and have no bearing on Blood Pacts. If there was any effect at all, it was smaller than what parsers pick up on the change in melee acc/damage on normal attacks. I've used it over the course of a few Tiamats, and parsed no difference on Highs/Lows/Averages.

Not to say my tests are proof for all, but is there any evidence or tests to the contrary besides for "I used it before, and my BP seemed to do better damage?"

[Naver]

For Nirokun! There is hope! :D

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c1...2/img_0267.png
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c1...2/img_0334.jpg

[Nirokun!]

thats what im talking about :3

[Tirrock]

Is there any proof at all that Sacrfice Torque works on Blood Pacts? I've performed tons of tests a while ago and proved to myself that "Enhance Avatar Acc/Attk" only work on normal attacks and have no bearing on Blood Pacts. If there was any effect at all, it was smaller than what parsers pick up on the change in melee acc/damage on normal attacks. I've used it over the course of a few Tiamats, and parsed no difference on Highs/Lows/Averages.

Not to say my tests are proof for all, but is there any evidence or tests to the contrary besides for "I used it before, and my BP seemed to do better damage?"

I was duoing flowers for organs (HQ/NQ) in sea with a SMN friend of mine. We were both using fenrir, and this was before summoning magic skill did anything. She had 3 physical accuracy merits, no physical attack merits (and about 20 levels below summoning magic skill cap...not that it mattered). AF2 head, yinyang robe, AF2 hands, AF1 legs, AF1 (maybe +1) feet and a bunch of gear that doesn't effect avatars either way.

I was using AF2 head/body/hands/legs and AF1 feet. Two physical attack merits, one physical accuracy. 20 over the cap on summoning magic skill, not that it mattered back then. We both used fenrir and would both eclipse bite at the start of the fight. My fenrir would almost do more damage, unless fenrir missed some hits. AF2 body would explain some of it, but we both noticed that I was outdamaging her fenrir much too often for it to be +3% crit hit rate. We would rarely be within 50 damage of each other on blood pacts.

We were down there for a few days, and it kept happening. Since neither of us believed that summoning magic skill did anything, we figured it was the physical attack merits (in addition to AF2 body). That said, that was the only case where I've seen any difference between summoners of equal levels.

[Hakamaru]

Off this topic, Do the effects of Enhance Avatar Accuracy and Enhance Avatar Attack, stack? For example, AF2 hands with AF1 legs, and Sac. Torque with AF2 feet? For me, it seems it does, but I guess it might be a placebo effect.

Yes, but the effects individually don't seem to be too much. Given how avatars are generally used, and how random their damage appears to be, you might not see too much difference.

Was this ever proven anywhere? People say it does all the time, but I've still never seen anyone run tests.