Discuss the second amendment here.

[BIGSTIC]

What's the guiness book of records say about the highest number of bullets put through a target in one minute (by a pistol)? That'd be a more fair comparison about what's possible (record bullets vs record arrows, as opposed to average american bullets vs record arrows).

Just cause you asked....i believe current record iirc is 8 rounds from a single action revolver on one target is 1 second. That means he pulled the trigger(not fully auto) 8 times in 1 yes 1 second.

Oh found a video.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/21940/fas ... oter_ever/

[Raineer]

I laughed out loud at your statement in bold. And while we should keep trying to reduce crime, drugs and terrorism, I wanted a fucking gun in my bedside table so I can stop the son of a bitch trying to rob me.

Because you're able to justify killing someone who's attempting to steal... what, 1000$ worth of crap from your house? That's like saying if someone got caught robbing a convenience store you wouldn't mind if they got sentenced to death.

I can understand if the robber was a threat to your family or something... except robbers don't aim to cause bodily harm. If they were, you wouldn't have had time to reach over to your bedside table -- you'd already be dead.

Wow you must be smarter than the rest of us.

Simply put, I'm a single dad and have 1 son who's 6. If there is a robber that invades our house that robber dies. There is no other outcome. I will not risk one hair on my son's head because some worthless "human being" decided he's too good to work at Wal-mart and decided he needed to steal my toaster to live. Population is out of control anyways, robbers should just be executed as they don't deserve to live (the reason you can't is due to an inept court system, different debate entirely)

And MF Perm I can't stand arguing with people like you...

Any criminal organization that would try to smuggles guns and ammunition into this country if they were illegal would be busted and shut down within an instant.

Dude wake the fuck up and live in the real world. Sweatshops here are populated by 1000s of foreigners who come over in the hull of boats loaded in crates and shit, FUNNY HOW WE CANT CATCH THEM. Don't think you can count on our government for your arguments that all guns will be instantly melted and teleported to Mars.

[Kabar]

And spare me on the "oh but drugs get in the country, if we make guns illegal so will they." Despite the fact that any large shipment of guns will be beyond retarded easy to spot being smuggled in, considering you can't swallow a gun to sneak it in, and they aren't a malleable organic substance that can be blended in with another product to fly under the radar as drugs are; YOU ALSO NEED AMMUNITION. You can buy a gun illegally, and legally buy bullets at Wal-Mart.

Most Drugs arent smuggled in to the country inside someones ass. they are brought in Large "Beyond Retarded Easy to Spot" shipments. It's not as easy to catch the bad people as you may want to believe. Same goes for illegal weapons.

[Devek]

Lol, they think the world is somehow worse off when someone robbing a convenience store gets shot to death.

No one forced the guy to steal

My gun collection is no danger to anyone. If you don't wanna get shot by me stay the fuck out of my house

[Blarg]

Thats a pretty cool video, most impressive is that last part with the 6 shots, reload, 6 shots in 2.9 seconds.

[Demosthenes11]

Anyone else find it ironic liberals complain the government is taking away too many freedoms then ask for an amendment to be changed in order to restrict their freedom?

I sure as hell find it ironic

[Devek]

It is because there is no difference between the right and the left.. their goal is the same.

[Merovingian]

And spare me on the "oh but drugs get in the country, if we make guns illegal so will they." Despite the fact that any large shipment of guns will be beyond retarded easy to spot being smuggled in, considering you can't swallow a gun to sneak it in, and they aren't a malleable organic substance that can be blended in with another product to fly under the radar as drugs are; YOU ALSO NEED AMMUNITION. You can buy a gun illegally, and legally buy bullets at Wal-Mart.

Most Drugs arent smuggled in to the country inside someones ass. they are brought in Large "Beyond Retarded Easy to Spot" shipments. It's not as easy to catch the bad people as you may want to believe. Same goes for illegal weapons.

I agree with you on this for me the problem is not on the law, its on the ppl that enforce them, if theres no one to enforce them,the law means shit. My opinion on this is i dont care to much on hand guns or even shotgun my prob is why the hell ppl want to get a assault rifle, they should ban them even if ppl want them for collection. Anyone with some experience can modified them to be close to real thing.

[Misterjingles]

Videos

Yeah! That was the place of the video of a bunch of people having a great ol time with the second amendment, it was more specifically this video.

Anyways, practically everything can be used as a weapon in the right hands just because you ban guns doesn't mean that people will stop using them. Instead why not put the effort from banning guns into educating people, more specifically children. Of course, it will have no effect on people that are fucked up in the head like the person that did the VA Tech shooting...

[aru]

Compared to the U.S. Army, Israeli army, or other militaries...the Iraqui, Palestinian, IRA, and any other guerilla forces are lightly armed.

i'm kinda scratching my head at this comment. how could you consider this group of civilians (not military personel) lightly armed, i mean i suppose it's all relitive but these are civilans using military grade weaponry (and alot of it). they have the capability to kill our soldiers through their body armor and destroy their vehicals and you would consider that light? i certainly dont.

[Lauzian]

Videos

Yeah! That was the place of the video of a bunch of people having a great ol time with the second amendment, it was more specifically this video.

Anyways, practically everything can be used as a weapon in the right hands just because you ban guns doesn't mean that people will stop using them. Instead why not put the effort from banning guns into educating people, more specifically children. Of course, it will have no effect on people that are fucked up in the head like the person that did the VA Tech shooting...

That actually looks like fun. I'm sure someone is gonna comment about young kids and guns bad. I watched the whole video and with the exception of the guy near the end doing the hollywood shoot from the hip style everyone in that video looked like they were practicing quite a bit of safety. Everyone had safety glasses and ear protection, all the younger shooters had someone supervising them. I really don't see anything wrong there. The kids are learning the proper use of these weapons and how to respect them.

Also, 100% agreed that the money should go into education about gun safety. I would wager that the correct education will go much further into reducing alot of gun accidents. As for the shootings and other acts of gun violence, these people have made a conscious decision to take someone else's life with a gun, another law will not stop them.

[Gregorio]

Compared to the U.S. Army, Israeli army, or other militaries...the Iraqui, Palestinian, IRA, and any other guerilla forces are lightly armed.

i'm kinda scratching my head at this comment. how could you consider this group of civilians (not military personel) lightly armed, i mean i suppose it's all relitive but these are civilans using military grade weaponry (and alot of it). they have the capability to kill our soldiers through their body armor and destroy their vehicals and you would consider that light? i certainly dont.

COMPARATIVELY. I don't see insurgents driving around in tanks wearing body armor, or flying around in armed helicopters dropping bombs on our soldiers. The bombs they make aren't exactly as effective or reliable as the type you'd see demolition teams using. I'm not saying their weapons aren't dangerous, but they're not as effective or we'd be seeing lots more deaths than we are now.

Semantics is getting in the way of my main point. We have access to many of the same weapons that insurgents do, so we would be able to mount the same type of warfare.

[Byrd]

Guns will always be obtainable, legal or not. If you make them illegal, organized crime will still be able to obtain them. The average Joe Dirt on the street will have a significantly harder time obtaining them, and the cost to that person will be higher.

Guns are plentiful now and, if made illegal, will slowly become less plentiful. Obviously, there would be a slow drop off, and little would change overnight.

The people who rationally support gun control (I stress rationally) realize that you can't stop "organized crime," and that there will always be some element that can get their hands on guns. But what it will do is reduce casual access to guns. This is likely to reduce crimes of passion, druggies strung out shooting people for cash or drugs, eight year olds killing their little brothers, kids stealing their parents guns and shooting up a school, etc. It's not going to reduce the organized crime deaths, it probably won't reduce even drug rings (although it might in the long term).

If you really want to kill someone, there are a lot of things that can do the job. A gun just makes it easier -- you can do it from a distance, you can do it with one shot, and you can do it by the simple act of pulling a trigger. It's much less personal. And if you want to commit multiple murders, a gun makes it easiest. Yes, you can build a bomb that will kill many people, but what's easier?

[Melchiah]

That law is completely outdated, no American should be able to have a firearm for any reason with the exception of hunting rifles.

Fuck you. Guns are not the problem. The problem is that people are being raised in America without being taught the value of human life, or that there are consequences for actions, and in some case are not being instilled with a set of morals at all. I recall my 17th birthday, when two kids in Colorado stormed their high school with firearms and explosives. Now what do you think is the difference? You can conceal a pipe bomb just as easily as a small firearm, and you can kill more people faster with it. Pipe bombs can be made from materials found at Wal-mart and Ace Hardware. Let's shutdown hardware stores and value centers too, they kill people.

The second amendment was put into place because of the tactics of the British governmentat the time in keeping dissidents down. They did it in Ireland, they did it in Scotland, and they did it in England. When you deprive your citizenry of a means to overthrow you, you may do anything you like as a governmental body. This is the kind of thing that was being considered in the second amendment. Basically speaking, the amendment is a check on the government, should it become oppressive towards its people. If your people are guaranteed the right and the ability to overthrow you, you have to stay in check. When the constitution was written, the ruling authority was the Crown of Great Britain, and it was not looking out for the interests of the people here. At that point the people took it into their hands to solve the problem. This right and ability is what keeps the American government from becoming like Stalinist Russia or any of the examples listed earlier. As for the statement about Americans shouldn't be allowed to own guns period, didn't you say you live in an urban area MF Perm? Are there lots of homeboys running around who don't know who they daddy be, and whose momma didn't teach them anything but how to steal and sell drugs? I'd be tempted to think that element of society is the issue rather than firearms being legal for private use. Also, I'd like to point out that the element of society I just described most likely would never be able to afford a firearm purchase from a legitimate dealer. Last time I checked a price on a Glock .40 it was over $600. It's cheaper to steal one or buy it stolen, or get it at a pawn shop. So again, guns are little more than instruments. I'm not going to fire a gun upon you unless I feel certain that you are about to harm me or my family. Shitbags however, will pull a firearm for $50 to buy some dope. Or a knife, or a club. It's the person weilding the tool, not the tool itself.

[Melchiah]

And if you want to commit multiple murders, a gun makes it easiest. Yes, you can build a bomb that will kill many people, but what's easier?

Explosives are not hard to build, and you don't have to register or spend a 3 day waiting period to buy the materials. Also, explosives kill more people per detonation than a firearm per bullet. Go into a classroom and throw a timed pipe bomb into the middle and you likely will kill or seriously injure everyone in the room immediately. The closest you could come to this with a firearm would be something like a Thompson submachine gun or other fully automatic weapon with enough ammo capacity to fire a spray that covers the room.

Bomb is more efficient. Throw it down and run to your next target. Gun you have to stand there while you do your killing.

[Devek]

Or lock all the doors and set the place on fire You'll kill EVERYONE.

BAN GASOLINE!

[Melchiah]

Or lock all the doors and set the place on fire You'll kill EVERYONE.

BAN GASOLINE!

OHMAGAWDYABESTEDME

No joke though. Chain the doors and light it up. More efficient than bombs or guns. Devek it appears we must ban gasoline and matches... holy fuck we need to build a time machine so we can uninvent fire, because you know... fire kills people in burning buildings. It's gotta go.

Tell you what MF Perm, I'll take this here Colt .357, and put one bullet in it. Then I'mma time travel to find that cocksucker who clicked those two fateful flint rocks together, and I'll put this slug in his forehead. That way, we never have anyone burn to death.

[Melena]

[quote=MF Perm]

God bless the 2nd amendment.

1st amendment sucks too, so you should shut the fuck up.

You realize that without the second ammendment the crime rate would skyrocket, right? 90%+ of weapons used in crimes resulting in a death are not weapons that are purchased or obtained legally. So even if we outlaw carrying or owning weapons, the criminals are still going to be able to obtain their guns illegally. Couple that with all law-abiding citizens not being able to own weapons and you have yourself a spike in the crime rate.

That's a sad vision of what would happen. Without the demand or ability to legally purchase guns in the US, US gun manufacturers wouldn't afford to make or distribute domestically pistols and semi-automatic weapons.

This is why they spend so much money on the Gun lobby, so they can continue to sell guns to the public.


And spare me on the "oh but drugs get in the country, if we make guns illegal so will they." Despite the fact that any large shipment of guns will be beyond retarded easy to spot being smuggled in, considering you can't swallow a gun to sneak it in, and they aren't a malleable organic substance that can be blended in with another product to fly under the radar as drugs are; YOU ALSO NEED AMMUNITION. You can buy a gun illegally, and legally buy bullets at Wal-Mart.

Any criminal organization that would try to smuggles guns and ammunition into this country if they were illegal would be busted and shut down within an instant. This wouldn't be the terribly managed completely unnecessary war on drugs, this would be on the same level as anti-terrorism as far as approach.

I agree that there would be a sudden spike immediately after the fact, but then it would drop to very, very low levels.

There is no reason anyone in this country should own a gun, to quote several comedians before me - The British aren't invading, you will not be drafted into a militia. The constitution was written to be changed with the times. That law is completely outdated, no American should be able to have a firearm for any reason with the exception of hunting rifles.[/quote:44128]

ok if this really was the case then where are all these people getting the guns that are illegal for the public then. There's a thousand different ways you can smuggle whatever you want in and out of the country. A person partaking in gun smuggling would be an idiot to smuggle the guns already assembled. Guns now a days are designed to be fully taken apart for cleaning, maitnance and part replacment. Also the part of your quote I bolded has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've seen. How many shootings have we had that involved a hunting rifle? A lot. You either go whole hog and ban em all (in which case there going to get smuggled in), or you restrict them. Personally I don't see a problem with people having guns. What I have a problem with is people whining that they need fully or semi automatic weapons for hunting.

To quote Robin Williams: You have the right to bare arms and the right to arm bears, whatever the hell you want to do. the nra says you have the right to have armor piercing bullets if your a hunter. Why? How many deer out there have bullet proof vests? Is there one big deer out there going I'm waiting for your ass!

[Melchiah]

Why? How many deer out there have bullet proof vests?

I agree completely. Civilians have no need for armor piercing rounds.

[Beckwin]

robbers should just be executed as they don't deserve to live

You're a piece of shit that shouldn't be a father. Sorry. People with an absolute disregard for human life are the last people who should be allowed to have guns, and are no sort of role model for a child.

Anyone else find it ironic liberals complain the government is taking away too many freedoms then ask for an amendment to be changed in order to restrict their freedom?

I sure as hell find it ironic

Better to try changing ammendments than bypass them PATRIOT Act-style.

Ironic is the guy who argued for stricter immigration laws to prevent death/damage can even try to argue against stricter gun laws to prevent death.

If you don't wanna get shot by me stay the fuck out of my house

ooh, what a tough guy