Discuss the second amendment here.

[Exoduso]

Yes but, even if you ARE hiding... if it's in the middle of the night, it's not likely that you will be able to spot a gun unless you've got an x-ray vision or something. (especially since it's probably hidden)

[Beckwin]

If there are multiple armed robbers, you're fucked anyway. You'd be much better off finding a way out or hiding where you can cover the entryway. Don't pull this bullshit thinking you'll get out of bed and kill any and all intruders one by one, counter-strike style.

And if you don't know whether or not the guy has a gun or is alone, how can you say you'd be sure without hesitation it wasn't a family member?

[Exoduso]

a family member probably wouldn't be taking your home theater system apart in 2 in the morning.

[Devek]

Ideally, you're keeping yourself hidden. But either way it can be argued that if someone wants to come in your house and kill you, you really can't do shit about it and the .45 under your pillow won't do you any good.

Oh ya.. and on this too.

Get a dog. They will go absolutely bat shit the moment a stranger steps up to any of your doors or windows at night. Man's best friend isn't just a cute saying

If there are multiple armed robbers, you're fucked anyway. You'd be much better off finding a way out or hiding where you can cover the entryway. Don't pull this bullshit thinking you'll get out of bed and kill any and all intruders one by one, counter-strike style.

With a dog, yourself, and a nice shotgun.. you can take multiple targets indoors with ease.

And if you don't know whether or not the guy has a gun or is alone, how can you say you'd be sure without hesitation it wasn't a family member?

The dog will know. No home defense setup is perfect without a dog.

[Beckwin]

My dogs back home bark up a storm when ANYONE shows up at the door/gate. Animals included. And don't think that any dog is gonna be super badass and lunge at a robber's jugular before he can act. Dogs can be shot and killed too :/ Oh, and I don't know how many crime shows I've seen where the robber just makes friends with the damn dog, lol. Saw a Masterminds where one guy was brought along specifically to make friends with the dog and take him into the downstairs/basement bathroom.

With a dog, yourself, and a nice shotgun.. you can take multiple targets indoors with ease.

Don't pretend like you're SWAT/Spec Ops/Solid fuckin' Snake.

I agree with you about using a shotgun. Seems very applicable to defense: if you've got yourself/family gathered up in a room, you can cover a door/hallway with a shotgun and don't need much skill to do it. It's also a larger, harder to conceal weapon that has a short range and is useable as a hunting weapon. If you're going to own a firearm for home defense, a shotgun seems sensible. I still don't support people even needing firearms for that sort of things in most situations though.

[Gregorio]

I don't exactly support the "shoot first shoot second shoot some more" (what movie is that from again?) attitude people have concerning home intruders. Life (yes, even a criminals life) is too precious for people to take over a stereo or DVD player. However, at the same time, do I think a reasonable person should just sit back and let people steal their shit? No. Criminals should not have a blank check to steal whatever they want without fear of confrontation. This only encourages the behavior.

I have guns in my house, and if I hear a ruckus in the middle of the night I'm probably going to attempt to confront the intruders...not only because I want to protect my property, but also because there is no guarantee that they will not attempt to harm me or my family. Will I run out guns-a-blazin so someone doesn't steal my DVD collection? No. But will I hesitate to shoot if I'm in fear of my or someone elses safety? Definitely not.

[Devek]

Dogs are different man

With mine I can tell exactly who is at the door by how he barks. I think he hates my mom's perfume because he starts sniffing and scratching at the base of the door before she even turns her car onto our street...

The purpose of a dog isn't to "lunge" or anything crazy.. he just knows where everyone is and he won't let someone sneak up behind you.

[Gregorio]

If you're going to own a firearm for home defense, a shotgun seems sensible. I still don't support people even needing firearms for that sort of things in most situations though.

Ever notice that most of these terrible shootings occur in "gun free zones"? Schools, post offices, government buildings, etc. How do you think a shooter would fare at a NRA convention or a gun show? Since this thread stemmed from todays shooting, imagine if one person who had a hand gun and a decent aim was present for the first shooting that happened. 30+ lives/injuries could have possibly be saved.

Yes, I know this is contingent upon a lot of circumstances, but I figured I'd throw it out there since you said "most situations".

[Kazen]

I dunno, not all robbers are want to hurt anymore, we had someone try to break into our house but the clicking sound of a pump shotgun made him run. (it wasnt even loaded lol)

[Gregorio]

I dunno, not all robbers are want to hurt anymore, we had someone try to break into our house but the clicking sound of a pump shotgun made him run. (it wasnt even loaded lol)

And not all gun owners want to kill innocent people. It works both ways, and the formerly mentioned are the minorities, but it happens.

Kinda related, but I've read that riot control police and such will all simaltaniously cock their shotguns to instill fear into the rioters, and apparantly it works.

On the other hand, I ABSOLUTELY HATE when guns are used in movies and the directors know nothing about them. Like cocking a shutgun 3 times and no shell is ejected...or a person firing off an entire clip or 30 shots and the magazine doesn't remain open...or my ultimate pet peeve about movies: someone pointing a shotgun at someone ready to shoot, the person moves, THEN the person cocks the shotgun. Like someone would be pointing an unloaded gun at a dangerous target.

[The Blackrose]

On the other hand, I ABSOLUTELY HATE when guns are used in movies and the directors know nothing about them. Like cocking a shutgun 3 times and no shell is ejected...or a person firing off an entire clip or 30 shots and the magazine doesn't remain open...or my ultimate pet peeve about movies: someone pointing a shotgun at someone ready to shoot, the person moves, THEN the person cocks the shotgun. Like someone would be pointing an unloaded gun at a dangerous target.

I have to agree on the grounds that I abso-fucking-lutely hate "Infinite Clip Syndrome."

It doesn't hurt to have to force a reload once in a while.

[Beckwin]

I dunno, not all robbers are want to hurt anymore, we had someone try to break into our house but the clicking sound of a pump shotgun made him run. (it wasnt even loaded lol)

I think I mentioned this in the VT shooting topic. My dad was career military- started as an Army MP and then joined the Coast Guard. Early on in the CG he worked on small boats and did lots of boardings/inspections. Told me that cocking a shotgun was pretty effective.

[Plow]

Ok, first off:

Anyone using the 2nd amendment to defend the right to own guns really needs to get real, plain and simple. The 2nd amendment is in place to say that the people (states really) are in charge, and have the right to defend themselves if the government is taking things too far. To use the words of outkast, "they got some shit that'll blow out our backs... from where they stay at." If you think you have a hope in the world of defending yourself against the U.S. government, I don't even know what to say.

I'm pretty certain not a single person posting in this thread has been to a gun show. Did you know that for 100-200 bucks (or a trade) you can go to virtually any gun show and get yourself a nice little semi-automatic sks, ak, or uzi, or whatever? And that converting said semi-automatic assault rifles into fully automatic takes all of 30 seconds with a file? It's ridiculous, and the NRA absolutely fully supports it, if you seriously think the NRA gives a shit about safety all I can say is go walk around a gun show. Seriously, go do it.

Lastly, if you honestly believe you're going to defend yourself and your loved ones with a gun in your house, you're just plain stupid. First off, where are you going to keep it? Are you going to have it holstered at all times whenever you're in your house? Better be careful when you're getting playful with the kids or um... "having some fun" with the wife.

Or are you going to have one in every room, in easily accessible locations loaded and ready to be grabbed and used in a heartbeat? And if that's the case, who says the intruder won't get to it first? Or just plain shoot your ass when they see you moving for something?


Keeping a gun in the house with children that is not locked up and unloaded, i.e. completely unsuitible for defense, is just fucking retarded.

But you go right ahead, keep telling yourselves "It'll never happen to me."

[BIGSTIC]

Read above

So yeah you obviously didn't read any of the previous posts in this thread. And hell i go to gun shows whenever they are within 200 miles of my house. And if you want to be honest there is a pawn shop in town that is selling a uzi, 1000 rounds of amo, and a scope all for $100. Don't blame all that shit on gun shows. Obviously you have never been to a pawn shop. Get your fucking facts straight. You want to lump all gun owners together well gtfo. I get so pissed about this because i have guns for a hobby. I have guns more valuable than my car and most other peoples car. I have one gun i was on the waiting list for 3 years to get and i have never even shot it. Most of my guns were purchased at gun shows and as stated before i took the time to register most of them. Yeah i hunt but only have 2 rifles and one shotgun that i hunt with the rest are just i guess you could say toys for me. I figure a robber will run from my house when he sees the 4 gun safes sitting in my living room and run out. And well i still believe a fucking loud home security system does work. Watch "It takes a thief" and learn about home security. I don't keep a gun next to me while asleep but if shit hits the fan i could have one in under 30 seconds. And hell i have a concealed-carry permit meaning i can walk down the street with a gun on my ankle fully legal.

So quit lumping all gun owners together.

[abadd]

Despite the fact that any large shipment of guns will be beyond retarded easy to spot being smuggled in,

Because those truckloads of marijuana coming in over the mexican border are so inconfuckingspicuous. No way in hell the same size truck carrying guns could get in. No way.


And hey, the cops do such a good job protecting us from criminals( re: 33 dead in blacksburg) we have NO NEED for weapons to protect ourselves with. Everyone knows all people everywhere are nice and civil and never want to harm you, ever.

[Saphirea]

I haven't rescinded anything. Having a stranger in your house is a scary situation you want to STOP. He may or may not have a gun.. he may or may not be alone.. too many times have people hesitated and gotten killed by the intruder. You aim toward the center mass and fire.

Something I was taught was this old saying. One shot, one kill.

Gun control means using two hands.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


This stuff happens because people don't have any regard for human life anymore. Keeping a firearm for personal protection and hunting is one thing. And there is nothing wrong with owning a firearm, as long as it's done in a legal maner of obtaining it. That said, I think there should be more stringent ways of obtaining them. I think of it this way, if you have nothing to hide then why do you care as to a real background check being done on you? Ive sat through a CI Lifestyle poly, I'm sure thats way more indepth then a firearm background investigation.

I don't own a firearm, and I doubt I ever will; but it's good knowing that I can if I should ever decide to own one.


And to answer a previous post. A M2. 50 Cal Machine Gun = 550 Rounds a minute. Yes, I was on a 50 cal team when deployed with 2nd Marines. Yes the bitch is heavy and humping that reciever 20 miles will destroy your shoulders.

[Raineer]

robbers should just be executed as they don't deserve to live

You're a piece of shit that shouldn't be a father. Sorry. People with an absolute disregard for human life are the last people who should be allowed to have guns, and are no sort of role model for a child.

[quote:65732]If you don't wanna get shot by me stay the fuck out of my house

ooh, what a tough guy[/quote:65732]
and you advocate robbing from others

I enjoy reading posts like yours, truly... it reminds me how truly fucked up this country has become.

So how much regard for human life is the person robbing me displaying? My dream is that my son grows up to be a man who defends his property and rights and not a fucking pussy like yourself.

Someone pushes you, you roll over and play dead. I don't play dead.

edit: nvm, here's my wish. I wish that someone tonight breaks into your house and makes you rethink your position. I hope they steal things that are valuable to you, and then I hope they are a total prick that smashes your family pictures, tears up momentos, maybe even hurts someone you live with or are close to.

I want all this to happen, and then come back to this thread and tell me that someone that would BREAK AND ENTER INTO SOMEONE ELSE'S HOME is someone that deserves to live. You act like a 13 year old who's been raised on Grand Theft Auto, or a 45 year old hippie who lives in a van and has smoked a little too much. Either way, it's you who is out of touch with reality.

[crazyrabbit]

to Raineer

I wish for you that your son meets some bad friends and breaks into a home when hes 15 to steal a dvd player and gets shot to death. Would still say he deserved it? Sorry but i myself would wish for a 2nd chance and hell... its a fucking dvd player or other bullshit crap, nothing is worth a human life.
And dont come with that "i will never let my son do this" crap. Thats what all parents of killers or criminals say. "My son would never do such thing" "He seemed to be a nice person" "We would have never thought that this nice guy would do such crimes" "I cant believe that we ate dinner together the day before"

Guns are only for revenge, not safty. You wanna live in peace? Then go to shools and tell the kids how to be a good person and that its fucking wrong to do illegal stuff. Make family meetings to tell parents how to teach their children respect. Try to get every single fucking gun out of your neighborhood or your town or city so your children will never have to face a gun.
But you guys dont want to make your citiy more safe, you just want to be able to shoot back. "He comes into my house, i hurt him" thats your way to deal with problems, the easiest and most stupid way.

Many ppl here who want to let me look bad agreed with me in their own posts but dont want to accept it. Banning guns would cause a drop in criminal rates and kids killing each other with their parents guns. Yes there would still be the illegal way to get those weapons, and? Just beause you cant simply solve the problem in one hit you dont even want to make a step.

"Guns dont kill people, people kill people" thats right. But what would you like more, a killer with a gun or a killer without a weapon. That VTech kid wouldnt have killed 32 ppl with a knife and you wouldnt need a gun to defend your home if the intruder had no gun too.
"He can just use other things like bombs blahblah" thats right. But does that mean we shouldnt make it harder for them with taking away one of those weapons. Hey we cant solve the problem (read: dont want to) so lets give everyone a weapon, wait 10 years and all those assholes will shoot down each other.

Again, guns are only for revenge. You can't solve problems with shooting ppl down.
If you want to say "But they are less likly to break into my house because i have guns" now, you should wake up. Most real criminals are aware of the weapon-addiction that americans like and they still commit crimes and dont care about you.

Oh and you want weapons because you are scared of your government? c'mon you americans are so proud of your "democraty" (even tho it isnt one). And if you think a small militia can change some things you live in a dream world. The US throws bombs on other countrys for oil, they let their soldiers die for political bullshit and you think they care about the small man with a gun?
They can easly say they killed those militia guys with heavy weapons because they wantet to safe the freedom in america.

Sigh i give up to discuss such things with americans. You are just to ignorant and stubborn that you dont want to see the whole problem and the different ways to solve it. Even tho i hate to say it but i wish that you experience such a tragedy in your own family to finaly wake up and realize that you try to defend the weapons that caused your beloved to die.

[ashke]

Ashke's story time!

I'll start off w/ a few suppositions.

1: Evil Exists.

Here's some factual proof:
http://www.statemaster.com/cat/cri-crime

Just look at the almost 10000 forcible rapes, 1393 hate crimes, and 2395 homicides, in California alone. Yeah, we're real moral.

2: Even in the best protected countries, 1:100 police per capita ratios are unheard of averaged out for the entire country.

If you don't believe me, police / capital by county:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_p ... per-capita

The highest country is 7.81501 per 1,000 people, and it's Montserrat. That's some pretty steep police coverage, in comparison to the other 48 countries limited. I'd be willing to bet that localized police / capital by city is denser in urban areas, so cities probably have a denser presence.

I couldn't find US statistics quickly, but I found a reference to Vermont's being lowest at 15 / 10,000. That's alot of non-police for every policeman.

The truth of the matter is law enforcement exists in a reactive, and not proactive capacity in the US, and if you expect Officer Friendly to be conveniently available, you can probaby expect some disappointment.

3: kung-fu experiences decreasing utility versus ranged weapons as range increases.

Please debate this. I've studied. If you're 2m from an armed gunman intent on pwning you, you're pwnt. This 'knife hand to the thumb' stuff has got to stop. Please give me statistics on how many martial artists have saved themselves from gunman. And if you'd like, I'm sure there are some powder pattern analysis that shows you a good percentage of people shot by firearms are shot out of melee range (barring execution style victims, who are immobilized.)



____

Now, put those together for a minute. So, there are bad people out there, we're hardly living in a police state, and if someone has a gun, you're fucked.

____

Raineer, I'm a victim of violent crime, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I would, however, ask that everyone expecting to never encounter hateful people, to read my story.

____

Anyway, being a victim sucks. I own a gun, I will not let such a thing happen to anyone I love.

[Skyylya]

we don't need gun control, we need retarded fucking emo-moron control.