Aggressor Vs Double Attack Merits

[Hankthetank]

I have been recently been toying with the idea of dropping my double attack merits and meriting aggressor. Among the Warriors I speak to this seems to be the general consensus on the best way to merit your Warrior, especially for Warriors who offhand a multi-hit weapon.

Before I erased another 15 merits I decided to do some numbers and see what kind of improvement Aggressor could hypothetically offer me and came up with the following. My first reaction was that my math must be wrong somewhere, but so far I haven’t found any major flaws in my logic.

Unmerited Aggressor
5min or 300 second recast
60min or 3600 seconds in an hour
12 recasts an hour. Aggressor is up for 180 seconds per a recast.
So unmerited Aggressor is up for 2,160 seconds out of 3,600 seconds every hour.
2,160/60 = 36 Minutes out of every hour.

Fully merited Aggressor
4min 10 seconds or 250 seconds recast
60 min or 3600 seconds in an hour
14.4 recasts an hour. Aggressor is up for 180 seconds per each recast.
So fully merited Aggressor is up for 2,592 seconds out of 3,600 seconds every hour.
2,592/60 = 43.2 or 43 minutes 12 seconds out of every hour.

So if constantly activated as soon as available fully merited Aggressor gives you an extra 7 minutes 12 seconds per and hour compared to unmerited Aggressor.

Assuming the difference between Aggressor up and down is 5% in Acc:
Unmerited:
90% for 36/60 minutes
85% for 24/60 minutes
[(90*43.2) + (85*16.8)] / 60
88% acc overall.

Merited:
90% Acc for 43.2/60 minutes
85% Acc for16.8/60 minutes
[(90*43.2) + (85*16.8)] / 60
88.6% Acc overall.

.6 Overall improvement

Given a 10% difference between Aggressor up and Aggressor down.
Unmerited:
90% for 36/60 minutes
80% for 24/60 minutes
[(90*43.2) + (80*16.8)] / 60
86% acc overall.

Merited:
90% Acc for 43.2/60 minutes
80% Acc for16.8/60 minutes
[(90*43.2) + (80*16.8)] / 60
87.2% Acc overall.

1.2% overall improvement.

15% Spread between Aggressor up and down.
Unmerited:
90% for 36/60 minutes
75% for 24/60 minutes
[(90*36) + (75*24)] / 60
84% acc overall.

Merited:
90% Acc for 43.2/60 minutes
75% Acc for16.8/60 minutes
[(90*43.2) + (75*16.8)] / 60
85.8% Acc overall.

1.8% increase in overall Acc.

20% Difference in Acc between Aggressor up and down.
Unmerited:
95% for 36/60 minutes
75% for 24/60 minutes
[(95*36) + (75*24)] / 60
87% acc overall.

Merited:
95% Acc for 43.2/60 minutes
75% Acc for16.8/60 minutes
[(95*36) + (75*16.8)] / 60
89.4% Acc overall.

2.4% increase in overall Acc.

Since full merits on Aggressor increase the amount of time you can keep Aggressor up by 12%. This formula seems to work:

(The Difference in Acc between Aggressor up and Aggressor down) * (12%) = Increase in overall Acc by fully Meriting Aggressor Vs Unmerited Aggressor.

Double attack suffers from diminishing returns the more you stack. This changes the break even point depending on the amount of Double attack you have pre merits and on if you use an off hand multi-hit weapon. I was looking for what the “break even” point was, to find at what point aggressor merits will be better than double attack merits and vice versa.

For the following I am calculations I am assuming the following:
1. Base Double Attack rate of 10% for a Warrior
2. 50% proc rate on a Joyeuse
3. 5% increase from a Brutal Earring.
4. In regards to DoT “1% increase in Acc = 1% increase in the number of landed double attacks = 1% increase in DoT”

Based on that fully meriting double attack seems gives the following actual gains and break even points Vs aggressor merits.

Axe/Axe & No Brutal Earring
Out of a hundred innings no DA merits we can expect:
Main Hand:
100 Swings
10 Additional from Double Attack.
Off hand:
100 Swings
10 Additional from Double Attack.

220 Swings total

Axe/Axe + 5 Double Attack Merits & No Brutal Earring
Out of a hundred innings with full DA merits we can expect:
Main Hand:
100 Swings
10 Additional from Double Attack.
5 Additional from Double Attack Merits.
Off hand:
100 Swings
10 Additional from Double Attack.
5 Additional from Double Attack Merits.

230 Swings for an increase of 10 swings over our original 220, or a 4.545% increase over No Double Attack Merits.

Assuming 85% Acc that translates into 3.863% more DoT. To match that overall increase in performance with aggressor merits we would need the difference between Aggressor up acc and Aggressor down acc to be > 31.192%

Assuming 90% Acc that translates into 4.091% more DoT. To match that overall increase in performance with aggressor merits we would need the difference between Aggressor up acc and Aggressor down acc to be > 34.092%

Axe/Axe + Brutal Earring
Out of a hundred innings no DA merits we can expect:
Main Hand:
100 Swings
10 Additional from Base Double Attack.
5 Additional from Brutal Earring
Off hand:
100 Swings
10 Additional from Double Attack.
5 Additional from Brutal Earring.
220 Swings total

Axe/Axe + Brutal earring + 5 Double Attack Merits
Out of a hundred innings with full DA merits we can expect:
Main Hand:
100 Swings
10 Additional from Double Attack.
5 Additional from Brutal Earring
5 Additional From Double Attack Merits.
Off hand:
100 Swings
10 Additional from Double Attack.
5 Additional from Brutal Earring
5 Additional from Double Attack Merits.

240 Swings for an increase of 10 swings over 230, or a 4.348% increase over No Double Attack Merits.

Assuming 85% Acc that translates into 3.696% more DoT. To match that overall increase in performance with aggressor merits we would need the difference between Aggressor up acc and Aggressor down acc to be > 30.800%

Assuming 90% Acc that translates into 3.913% more DoT. To match that overall increase in performance with aggressor merits we would need the difference between Aggressor up acc and Aggressor down acc to be > 32.608%

Axe/Joyeuse & No brutal
Out of a hundred innings no DA merits we can expect:
Main Hand:
100 Swings
10 Additional from Double Attack.
Off hand:
100 Swings
50 Joyeuse Double Attack
5 Additional from Double Attack.

265 Swings total

Axe/Joyeuse + 5 Double Attack Merits & No brutal
Out of a hundred innings with full DA merits we can expect:
Main Hand:
100 Swings
10 Additional from Double Attack.
5 Additional From Double Attack Merits.
Off hand:
100 Swings
50 Hits from Joyeuse Double Attack.
5 Additional from Double Attack.
2.5 Additional from Double Attack Merits.

272.5 Swings for an increase of 7.5 swings over our base of 265, or a 2.830% increase over No Double Attack Merits.

Assuming 85% Acc that translates into 2.406% more DoT. To match that overall increase in performance with aggressor merits we would need the difference between Aggressor up acc and Aggressor down acc to be > 20.050%

Assuming 90% Acc that translates into 2.547% more DoT. To match that overall increase in performance with aggressor merits we would need the difference between Aggressor up acc and Aggressor down acc to be > 21.225%

Axe/Joyeuse + Brutal Earring
Out of a hundred innings no DA merits we can expect:
Main Hand:
100 Swings
10 Additional from Base Double Attack.
5 Additional from Brutal Earring
Off hand:
100 Swings
50 Joyeuse double Attack
5 Additional from Double Attack.
2.5 Additional from Brutal Earring.

272.5 Swings total

Axe/Joyeuse + Brutal Earring + 5 Double Attack Merits
Out of a hundred innings with full DA merits we can expect:
Main Hand:
100 Hits
10 Additional from Double Attack.
5 Additional from Brutal Earring
5 Additional From Double Attack Merits.
Off hand:
100 Hits
50 Joyeuse Double Attack
5 Additional from Double Attack.
2.5 Additional from Brutal Earring
2.5 Additional from Double Attack Merits.

280 Swings for an increase of 7.5 swings over 272.5, or a 2.752% increase over No Double Attack Merits.

Assuming 85% Acc that translates into 2.339% more DoT. To match that overall increase in performance with aggressor merits we would need the difference between Aggressor up acc and Aggressor down acc to be > 19.492%

Assuming 90% Acc that translates into 2.477% more DoT. To match that overall increase in performance with aggressor merits we would need the difference between Aggressor up acc and Aggressor down acc to be >20.642%


I don’t have a Rid, so I haven’t made an calculations to account for its effect. I *think* is 33.33% chance for each a single, double or triple attack. That is a key piece of info I would need to crunch numbers. A second thing I would need to know if Rid’s multi-hits are checked before or after double attack is checked. The check order would be very important and I don’t think we know in what order they are checked.

Either way ignoring a rid it seems that the break even point is around 30% for Axe/Axe users and around 20% for Axe/Joy users depending on your over all accuracy.

I don’t think I have ever experienced a 20% drop in over all Acc when aggressor goes down. While admittedly I have not parsed specifically looking for the difference between my aggressor up and aggressor down Acc, I am going to assume though I would notice if my Acc dropped from 95-75% or 90-70%. 20% is a very drastic change in accuracy; I would think it would be very apparent to even “eyeball parsers”.

Overall it would seem double attack merits are the best way for me to go, even with them being diluted by my off-hand Joyeuse.

/discuss

Sincerely,
Hankthetank

[sisco]

Do you merit yourself to be better in XP or to be better on end game content? Aggressor wins out on hard stuff where the boost is very noticeable.

[Hankthetank]

Do you merit yourself to be better in XP or to be better on end game content?

I don’t see them as being mutually exclusive.

I can get a Acc boost thru food and gear, and I assume that would be more effctive than a mere 7 minutes 12 seconds more of aggressor per an hour.

Sincerely,
Hankthetank

[divisortheory]

Has nobody ever measured the exact bonus to accuracy granted by Aggressor?

[Ichthyos]

Has nobody ever measured the exact bonus to accuracy granted by Aggressor?

25 according to the wiki, which seems to be down.

[kamugi]

I'm a firm believer in 4 double atack merits and 3 berserk/aggresser if using 2 axes.
And switching to 5 berserk/aggresser if you get a ridill.

[Aggression]

I'm a firm believer in 4 double atack merits and 3 berserk/aggresser if using 2 axes.
And switching to 5 berserk/aggresser if you get a ridill.

That's what I have atm, dunno if I'll change it right away if I get one, I'll be busy stripping my H2H merits for axe/sword.

[Chupunpupun]

Has nobody ever measured the exact bonus to accuracy granted by Aggressor?

25 according to the wiki, which seems to be down.

Wiki.......It is only assumed 25% because berserk gives 25%. The only person that could have tested aggressor is Nny or Khalea.

[Marsala]

I did 2serk/agg and 5 DA cause I wanted full DA. I like it very much. Works well on HNMs too. 30 secs aint much of a big deal to me as far as waiting for serk/agg to be up.

[RKenshin]

Has nobody ever measured the exact bonus to accuracy granted by Aggressor?

25 according to the wiki, which seems to be down.

Wiki.......It is only assumed 25% because berserk gives 25%. The only person that could have tested aggressor is Nny or Khalea.

Actually it was a straight +25 acc, not +25% acc... +25% would be almost twice the accuracy of sushi so it'd either have to be capped at +25 acc (which would happen long before you even get the ability) or a smaller % that's capped at +25 acc. I forgot who tested it specifically but really it's not hard to find out, just involves taking off/putting on accuracy gear and spamming check on the right mob with and without Aggressor. I'm sure it's been done already.

Interesting calculations though, and it all seems to be accurate for both the numbers and some of the assumptions. Nice work.

Personally I've never regretted my original merit choice in going with 4x DA and 3x Bers/Agg. I like to occasionally use GA and Axe/Axe, and prefer the extra DA to put me at ~20%. And honestly, I don't even care what other people merit, but it's annoying to be told what I should merit or when people critsize the decision.

I always just found the idea of getting Bers/Agg maxed regardless if you have a Ridill to be silly as well. Then the majority of the same people with the upgrades don't even use their JAs as soon as they can when they're ready, making it completely not worth the upgrade. 20 seconds of merits is pointless if it takes you 10-20 seconds to realize it's ready.

Anyway, yeah.. I've always just thought that the difference is small in the long run either way so who cares, there are more important things you can do to improve your output. Although your numbers seem to illustrate it could have a bigger effect than originally thought. Regardless though, really good job with the test.

[isladar]

And honestly, I don't even care what other people merit, but it's annoying to be told what I should merit or when people critsize the decision.

Amen to that sentiment.

4DA/3Burgerssorz (for me, at least) allows the greatest versitility in the most situations -- For Axe/Axe merit parties, for /THF in sky, for /SAM or /NIN in Dynamis.

The amount of vitriol thrown around about some job ability timers has always shocked me.