logging hate

[andretti]

did khimaira today and had some wierd results after logging off to erase hate... i'm a career blm, now blu, so logging hate at some hnms is hardly new to me... however, today seemed like no matter what i did, logging off never shed any of my hate... here is what happened:

fight start (1 pld and 1 nin tank)
at approx 95% khimmy HP i do sa+cannonball 500ish dmg
followed by 2 saca+cannonballs for 1kish dmg and 1 sa+cannonball for 500ish
no hate so far, but i log to mule, zone out of mh and back in, then log back to my main (this is the way i've logged hate for over a year btw)
with hate clear, now i do 2hr+saca+cannonball fo 1729
no hate still, but huge number so i log to mule and zone twice again just to be safe
now, i've logged hate & come back and do saca+cannonball for 1040
mob draws me in
so, i log again -- same deal -- mule and zone twice
when i get back, i do saca+cannonball again, this time lower dmg of 770ish, but immediate hate and drawn in!
so, now i'm like wtf... LS says log all the way to desktop
not what i ever do for years, but i oblige..
i'm xbox player so i /shutdown and turn off my xbox, use the bathroom then reboot
now, back at fight... saca+cannonball for 700ish and omfg, draw in and big hate
now, entire rest of fight, no matter how i log, the only thing i can do is taca+cannonball on pld tank because any other cannonball pulls hate

now... my only two jobs at 75 are blm and blu... and 100% of my 2.5yr endgame career, prior to blu of course, was on blm where i can feel when to log hate in my sleep almost i've done it so much... today was the first time i have ever experienced something like this... i'm pretty adept at "feeling" hate because of repetition, but today just "felt" different... now i'm blu main in LS and come to 90% of events on blu... has anyone experienced this recently? i asked an LS friend his opinion and he told me since march update he has also logged hate (all the way to desktop for him) and come back to immediately pull hate on next cast... we have same tanks as always, same mobs... just seems, to me, hate "memory" (if you will) is different...

any thoughts?

[Neb]

You need to completly shut down client for a min to log hate. Basically /shutdown all the way out even POL wait 1 min the log back in.

Guess you were just getting lucky before.

[andretti]

lucky for over a year and, literally, hundres of hnm fights? i think not. besides, did you read the part where i said i turned my xbox off, used the wc, then relogged only to get hate bad on 1st cast?

[Tyche]

Not that we've logged hate since like 2 years ago, but we always logged onto a mule because we heard logging into POL doesnt do the trick.

[Neb]

Or maybe your tanks just Suck I've allways completely closed client to log hate and I never have a problem.

[Shuemue]

I've always completely closed POL for a couple of minutes and logged back in np.

[andretti]

Or maybe your tanks just Suck I've allways completely closed client to log hate and I never have a problem.

doubt it... same aegis tank considered by most one of the best on server we've had for years...

thanks for input dude, but please read my entire post.

[thetruepandagod]

logging onto a mule clears hate just as well as logging all the way out of POL

[Charitwo]

I always switch to a mule, never fails.

[suji]

Were you using any dots? I had a pretty small "test case" dealing with this a few years ago which made me really skeptical about the logging-hate process:

I was duoing gigas in upper d. tower on BST with a WHM friend for fun. We were fighting where those two bats spawn when you first go up to the 11th floor. He had been casting Dia, some debuffs and meleeing.

Shit hit the fan and I knew we were going to die if we didn't logoff. I pulled the gigas into the pallas room put a jug pet on it to buy some time, and told him to logoff, so he did. I timed my logoff so that I would log off just a few seconds after him.

Here's the order of events that occured after that:
1) He logged off
2) I logged off
3) He logged on
4) Gigas started hauling ass from the Pallas room BACK to the area with the two bats and began beating on him
5) I logged back on
6) I got back to him just in time to see him die.

From then on, I was pretty convinced that you needed to fully log off to completely clear hate. The only explanation I could come up with though was that it was either a bug or the Dia was still ticking hate towards his character, even though he had logged off/on. But I know a lot of folks only log off to POL, so I'm not really sure what's going on here.

Edit: Of course, the reason could just be that it just doesn't work to only log out to POL, like other folks are saying. This was just how I discovered it and at the time it seemed pretty damn odd to me.

[Ddong]

Logging out does not necessarily erase all hate. The actions you do not do against the mob while logging out makes other players gain a higher amount of hate than you. You can accomplish the same as logging out by chilling out on hate causing actions for few minutes.

[andretti]

100% of my 2.5yr endgame career, prior to blu of course, was on blm where i can feel when to log hate in my sleep almost i've done it so much... today was the first time i have ever experienced something like this... i'm pretty adept at "feeling" hate because of repetition, but today just "felt" different... now i'm blu main in LS and come to 90% of events on blu... has anyone experienced this recently? i asked an LS friend his opinion and he told me sinch march update he has also logged hate (all the way to desktop for him) and come back to immediately pull hate on next cast... we have same tanks as always, same mobs... just seems, to me, hate "memory" (if you will) is different...

any thoughts?

i'm not asking for a debate over which way to log is best... i did BOTH log to mule and completely turn off xbox and still had hate on 1st casts after returning... same tank we've had for years... same mobs we've killed tons of times... all i'm asking is has anyone noticed any changes regarding hate memory after logging recently... or maybe this is an anomaly... the reason i posted was because an lsmate told me, he too, had an issue with hate on 1st cast after relog since march update and wanted to see if any of you had similar experiences.

[andretti]

Were you using any dots? I had a pretty small "test case" dealing with this a few years ago which made me really skeptical about the logging-hate process:

i considered this... did use frightful roar and also tested magnitite cloud during fight... this may be case i never saw as blm cuz dot's on blm don't last as long as my blu enfeebles..

thx, i will test this theory

[Ddong]

Yes, and I just explained to you why it occurs. Logging out for HNMs does not mean you lose all hate. It is just a placebo. The reason why it seems like you are shedding hate is b/c you are doing no action against the mob while logging out.

[inafume]

The game checks the hate list periodically against people online/in the area. You got unlucky with the timing.

[Eander]

I always log onto my character on a different server, /logout from it, come back. Works like a charm.

[suji]

Were you using any dots? I had a pretty small "test case" dealing with this a few years ago which made me really skeptical about the logging-hate process:

i considered this... did use frightful roar and also tested magnitite cloud during fight... this may be case i never saw as blm cuz dot's on blm don't last as long as my blu dot's..

thx, i will test this theory

Really I was just looking for my own explanation other than "logging out doesn't reset hate", since it seems pretty absurd for a mob to maintain hate on a player that isn't logged into the game. But SE isn't known for making sane decisions and the other folks in this thread seem pretty confident that the reason you hadn't been getting hate was simply because you didn't cast spells for a few minutes. Perhaps they are all right? ;p

Don't listen to me since I'm not a BLM who constantly logs hate. I just wanted to present my example of a pretty small and very clear example of a situation that proved just logging out onto POL isn't sufficient to reset hate (at least some of the time), which is already contrary to your experience.

[shukuffxi]

I've had the exact same experience, on BLU/THF, at Khimaira at well. Went about 10 minutes, got hate, logged to mule, walked around 1 minute, came back in, 1 SA Cannonball, 1 CASA Cannonball, got hate. Completely /shutdown, restarted, came back, repeated, got hate. /shutdown again, waited 3 minutes, came back, 1 CASA Cannonball, got drawn in again.

I'm not so sure if it was a tank thing or not, it wasn't one of my usual tanks, and this guy while he had some really great gear, wasn't the best tank... But still, 900~950 CASA Cannonball after /shutdown and restarting and getting hate, on a PLD with at least +30 Enmity and in the fight for 20-25 min, getting hate seems a bit odd. They made the BRD give me Dirge after

[Paegan]

Yes, and I just explained to you why it occurs. Logging out for HNMs does not mean you lose all hate. It is just a placebo. The reason why it seems like you are shedding hate is b/c you are doing no action against the mob while logging out.

Rubbish. Back when we used BLMs and SMNs on Kirin I'd be far away doing nothing at all for minutes at a time while resting MP. Then I'd come back and pull hate with my first nuke. The difference between that and logging out (or dying) is very, very obvious to anyone.

[RedFlare]

Yes, and I just explained to you why it occurs. Logging out for HNMs does not mean you lose all hate. It is just a placebo. The reason why it seems like you are shedding hate is b/c you are doing no action against the mob while logging out.

Rubbish. Back when we used BLMs and SMNs on Kirin I'd be far away doing nothing at all for minutes at a time while resting MP. Then I'd come back and pull hate with my first nuke. The difference between that and logging out (or dying) is very, very obvious to anyone.

mobs don't like when you're resting for MP. your hate will not deplete nearly as fast when resting for MP as it would if you stand there really doing nothing. try standing there doing nothing for 2 minutes, vs logging out for 2 minutes, and the hate shed will be the exact same.

seriously, this is something i can't believe most long term ffxi players haven't figured out yet. the mob keeps a hate list based off your actions, and logging out, zoning, logging into another character, etc, do nothing to remove you from this list. the hate depletes over time based on enmity and your actions. the fastest your hate can possibly deplete (other than taking direct damage) is when you're standing there doing nothing (possibly running around). standing there doing nothing for 2 minutes = logging for 2 minutes = zoning for 2 minutes, etc.

so the only benefit to logging out over standing there is that you won't be a possible target or get hit by AOE while logged out.