Wuts a 1st amendment?

[Tyche]

Hypothetical situation:

Class discussion:

Charlie: I think Cho was nuts
CrazyKid: I dunno, but the fucking maitence man not fixing these lights makes me wanna off his ass
Charlie: OMG BLASPHEMY!

Bad sarcasm used in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I know that is a completely inconcieveable conversation, but you don't need me to tell you how college students are so absolutely critical of everything you say and try to act more politically correct than anderson cooper. There isnt a whole lot of info you can derive from that new story.

[MikedeeFenrir]

Well, it was stupid of him to talk like that when people are thinking of Vtec, other than that, you're in a school, you're rights aren't the same in that building.

Maybe it was smart of him to say that. Maybe people will pay closer attention to the warning signs in the future, and this kid can get some help to deal with his anger and emotional problems before it's too late.

This reminds me of the family of 4 that was murdered 3 months ago and the teachers 'saw nothing wrong with the kids'. (The father was a drug dealer btw)

[GRT]

During a class discussion Tuesday of Monday's massacre at Virginia Tech, Max Karson "made comments about understanding how someone could kill 32 people," university police Cmdr. Brad Wiesley said.

looks to me like a discussion of behavior, where someone shared his educated opinion..... so nobody is allowed to do that unless you are a certified criminal psychologist?

Did you read this part also?

[quote:cd680]Karson, who turns 22 on Thursday, said he was "angry about all kinds of things from the fluorescent light bulbs to the unpainted walls, and it made him angry enough to kill people,"

[/quote:cd680]

hey, do you always use partial quotes to manipulate the meaning of the statement?

here's the complete quote

Several witnesses told investigators Karson, who turns 22 on Thursday, said he was "angry about all kinds of things from the fluorescent light bulbs to the unpainted walls, and it made him angry enough to kill people," according to a police report.

looks to me like whatever's in the quote is from witness observation instead of something that karson guy said. so where's the threat again?

[divisortheory]

You're assuming his comments were skewed around by students with some strange hidden agenda, I'm assuming they were conveyed accurately. I already said that if his comments were said jokingly then he was just an idiot and not a threat. But if they weren't said jokingly, then action was appropriate.

[Charla]

First of all, I think I might have misread the original quote as well. Because the sentance has no subject, and the subject is instead before the quote, I interpreted the word "he" as referring to Cho, instead of Karson.

That being said, I still think criminal charges are overkill, especially considering the context of a discussion. The class should have said "Wow, that's pretty heavy. How do you deal with that stuff?" instead of "JESUS CHRIST A MURDERER GET IN THE CAR!"

As for that Manju/Swastika example, someone in my LS started complaining that "this JP has a swastika in his WS macro". I tried to let them know that the Manju is actually an ancient Indian symbol of peace. They weren't interested. In conclusion, Americans are oversensitive, and it pisses me off.

[GRT]

You're assuming his comments were skewed around by students with some strange hidden agenda, I'm assuming they were conveyed accurately. I already said that if his comments were said jokingly then he was just an idiot and not a threat. But if they weren't said jokingly, then action was appropriate.

no, dude, read it again carefully please

i mean it's clearly not AP style journalism writing, but the meaning should be obvious if you jsut read carefully

the stuff in the quote is taken from the police report, which took down statements of observation by witnesses of karson's characteristics or behavior. definately not something the witnesses quoted him saying

[Kuya]

You're assuming his comments were skewed around by students with some strange hidden agenda, I'm assuming they were conveyed accurately. I already said that if his comments were said jokingly then he was just an idiot and not a threat. But if they weren't said jokingly, then action was appropriate.

His classmates are scared shitless because of Vtech, they don't need a hidden agenda to skew information to make the guy look crazier than he already does, paranoia does that for you.

[MikedeeFenrir]

You're assuming his comments were skewed around by students with some strange hidden agenda, I'm assuming they were conveyed accurately. I already said that if his comments were said jokingly then he was just an idiot and not a threat. But if they weren't said jokingly, then action was appropriate.

His classmates are scared shitless because of Vtech, they don't need a hidden agenda to skew information to make the guy look crazier than he already does, paranoia does that for you.

Even if there wasn't a Vtech I'm sure the kids would still go report him in.

[Kuya]

You're assuming his comments were skewed around by students with some strange hidden agenda, I'm assuming they were conveyed accurately. I already said that if his comments were said jokingly then he was just an idiot and not a threat. But if they weren't said jokingly, then action was appropriate.

His classmates are scared shitless because of Vtech, they don't need a hidden agenda to skew information to make the guy look crazier than he already does, paranoia does that for you.

Even if there wasn't a Vtech I'm sure the kids would still go report him in.

If there wasn't a Vtech... he wouldn't have made the comment that got him into trouble in the first place... Mikedee...srsly...

[Zhais]

His classmates are scared shitless because of Vtech, they don't need a hidden agenda to skew information to make the guy look crazier than he already does, paranoia does that for you.

Even if there wasn't a Vtech I'm sure the kids would still go report him in.

Current events are highly influential on people's attitudes towards statements.

Think back during the Red Scare era... if I were to publicly say "HELL YEAH COMMUNISM RULES" I'd probably have my entire house tapped for the next 5 years, if not interrogated. Nowadays, noone cares.

[zoobernut]

What context is there to understand when you tell a room full of people "I often get angry enough to kill 32 people"?

I think you are taking this statement out of context. You are assuming this was a random occurence in the class like they were talking about math and the dude came out and said stuff like that.

If I read that correctly it was not random. They were discussing the shootings in class so him saying something with reguards to the shootings is still part of the discussion that they were having. To me it sounds like he was either playing the devils advocate or being sarcastic and no one really got the sarcasm.

[Exoduso]

What the fuck is happening to this country...

[MikedeeFenrir]

You're assuming his comments were skewed around by students with some strange hidden agenda, I'm assuming they were conveyed accurately. I already said that if his comments were said jokingly then he was just an idiot and not a threat. But if they weren't said jokingly, then action was appropriate.

His classmates are scared shitless because of Vtech, they don't need a hidden agenda to skew information to make the guy look crazier than he already does, paranoia does that for you.

Even if there wasn't a Vtech I'm sure the kids would still go report him in.

If there wasn't a Vtech... he wouldn't have made the comment that got him into trouble in the first place... Mikedee...srsly...

Read it more carefully.

My point is, even if Vtech didnt' happen, the kids would have reported him in for saying it.

[Gregorio]

all you have to do is to look up if people's been convicted for praising hitler or hating jews

Holocaust denial / nazi supporting is a crime in some countries in Europe.

[Kuya]

You're assuming his comments were skewed around by students with some strange hidden agenda, I'm assuming they were conveyed accurately. I already said that if his comments were said jokingly then he was just an idiot and not a threat. But if they weren't said jokingly, then action was appropriate.

His classmates are scared shitless because of Vtech, they don't need a hidden agenda to skew information to make the guy look crazier than he already does, paranoia does that for you.

Even if there wasn't a Vtech I'm sure the kids would still go report him in.

If there wasn't a Vtech... he wouldn't have made the comment that got him into trouble in the first place... Mikedee...srsly...

Read it more carefully.

My point is, even if Vtech didnt' happen, the kids would have reported him in for saying it.

... k

So lets just say Vtech din't happen, this means the class wouldn't be having the conversation about Vtech, and he wouldn't have had Vtech as a focal point from which to demostrate his point of view(or psychopathy, whatever you want to call it).

... k, you're gonna have to explain your point to me >_____>

Edit: Only way i see your point making any sense, is if they were having a generic conversation on the death sentence or on, oh i dunno, killing people. And then he says: "I can understand how someone could kill 32 people", you're telling me that in a totaly legitimate debate in a scholarly atmosphere, these students would call the cops on him because they felt threatend? And not get ostracized by their peers for being facists(did i use the word right?)?

[Xavier]

I think I read that roughly 38% of the students at V-tech are on some kind of anti-depressant.

We better arrest that 38% of the student body because they might snap and go crazy.

[Kuya]

I think I read that roughly 38% of the students at V-tech are on some kind of anti-depressant.

We better arrest that 38% of the student body because they might snap and go crazy.

I once said, that our current goverment pisses me off so much, that i would probably kill the governor... My peers aplauded me.

Maybe I din't go to jail because the class thought i was hawt?

[archibaldcrane]

all you have to do is to look up if people's been convicted for praising hitler or hating jews

Holocaust denial / nazi supporting is a crime in some countries in Europe.

Most of Europe has criminalized hate speech towards religion and race, even when not in association with another criminal act. The KKK couldn't legally exist in many european countries.

I think that the point of this conversation should be intent. If the kid said what he did with the intent of "interfering with staff, faculty or students of an education institution" then he should be charged as such. However, this wasn't out of the blue - they were having a conversation ABOUT THE SHOOTINGS in the class. Students engaging productively in a teacher-led discussion shouldn't have to censor what they say for fear of criminal prosecution. That is fucking retarded, and it's what the first amendment is designed to protect.

Schools are supposed to be a place for free expression, and when the bounds of the expression are specifically about mass murder, then you should be able to talk about that topic. Comparing this to discussing bombings at an airport is totally different - you're told up front at an airport that joking about bombs and terrorism will be taken as a threat. You know the rules there.

[Xavier]

I think I read that roughly 38% of the students at V-tech are on some kind of anti-depressant.

We better arrest that 38% of the student body because they might snap and go crazy.

I once said, that our current goverment pisses me off so much, that i would probably kill the governor... My peers aplauded me.

Maybe I din't go to jail because the class thought i was hawt?

I was in a POLS class where a student stood up defending the Bush administration and got booed and called crazy. I probably should've called the cops because anyone voicing that opinion is obviously unstable.

[MikedeeFenrir]

[quote=Kuya]

You're assuming his comments were skewed around by students with some strange hidden agenda, I'm assuming they were conveyed accurately. I already said that if his comments were said jokingly then he was just an idiot and not a threat. But if they weren't said jokingly, then action was appropriate.

His classmates are scared shitless because of Vtech, they don't need a hidden agenda to skew information to make the guy look crazier than he already does, paranoia does that for you.

Even if there wasn't a Vtech I'm sure the kids would still go report him in.

If there wasn't a Vtech... he wouldn't have made the comment that got him into trouble in the first place... Mikedee...srsly...

Read it more carefully.

My point is, even if Vtech didnt' happen, the kids would have reported him in for saying it.

... k

So lets just say Vtech din't happen, this means the class wouldn't be having the conversation about Vtech, and he wouldn't have had Vtech as a focal point from which to demostrate his point of view(or psychopathy, whatever you want to call it).

... k, you're gonna have to explain your point to me >_____>

Edit: Only way i see your point making any sense, is if they were having a generic conversation on the death sentence or on, oh i dunno, killing people. And then he says: "I can understand how someone could kill 32 people", you're telling me that in a totaly legitimate debate in a scholarly atmosphere, these students would call the cops on him because they felt threatend? And not get ostracized by their peers for being facists(did i use the word right?)?[/quote:9a737]
Forget he said anything about Vtech, if he just said "Man these lights make me wanna kill people." I'm sure people would report him in today's day and age.

My Mom is a teacher @ a HS, and is in the crisis team. Some kid said he wants to set the school on fire, they arrested him next period.