Wuts a 1st amendment?

[Melchiah]

What context is there to understand when you tell a room full of people "I often get angry enough to kill 32 people"?

Because:

Seriously now, yelling fire in the theatre is used as an example because it can predictably put people in immediate danger. Making some scared, oversensitive Americans nervous doesn't, unless maybe one of them decides to tackle you right there. "I feel threatened" is not a valid criminal accusation, dammit.

The first amendment guarantees your right to speak your mind until you infringe upon someone else's rights. All American Rights are cross-assuring, meaning the extend to the point that exercising them infringes upon someone elses. You DO have the right to not listen to someone when they say something you don't like. You do NOT have the right to live your life without being offended by anyone, ever. College students(and I am one) will fucking say anything, especially if it is anti-establishment or goes against the norm. They call it free thinking, when really they are just desparately trying to differentiate themselves from everyone else. People who commit crimes like the VT shooting or Columbine don't run their mouths about what they are going to do. They just show up one day without a word to anyone and go to work. The guy who says "Fuck I hate this guy I want to cut his throat!" is just venting.

[theo]

Evaluated, yes, thrown in prison, no.

At the very least, even if someone doesn't mean it, they should be evaluated on the grounds of being a dumbass for saying it in the first place. But I don't think giving your opinion on something should be criminal, nor off-hand harmless remarks.

I totally agree, like I said I don't think this guy needs to be tossed away in a cell just one incident of saying stupid shit. But on the other hand a simple evaluation wouldn't hurt.

[Demosthenes11]

I love how nobody in this thread understands the context of these said things...yet everyone is rushing to conclusions.

And if a serious kid said "Sometimes, things make me wanna kill people" and you knew he was serious, are some of you saying you wouldn't call the cops? Better to be safe than sorry...and btw, saything they should just get help is completely irrelevant. You don't call 211 for the crazy police, they get help because they go through the justice system 90% of the time

[Jer]

The way I read the story, the student "made comments about understanding how someone could kill 32 people", which were "he was "angry about all kinds of things from the fluorescent light bulbs to the unpainted walls, and it made him angry enough to kill people". The story makes it sound as if he was giving an explanation (the sympathizing mentioned in the article) as to why the Va Tech kid may have done it and that is what scared the students. If you're having a discussion, and there's a possiblity that some students are going to piss their pants, either ask them to leave or just don't have it.

I also lol'd at the point int he article that somebody called the police on somebody for the belt they were wearing. Even after the police came and found out it was all spent, they still confiscated it.

Things are going too far, and sooner or later somebody is going to do something that affects more people than they can afford to piss off. Its not even just things like this. I saw on the news today that some radio stations are banning any music from being played that is violent, racist, sexist, or contains references to anything deemed unpleasant just because Imus got fired for saying something because he was white.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

[Demosthenes11]

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

That's the most stupid and ridiculous quote I have ever seen

[GRT]

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." --Benjamin Franklin

added with more info

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

That's the most stupid and ridiculous quote I have ever seen

lol, i bet you were glad you could pick out a one liner in that post you could disagree with to conveniently disregard everything else that made a complete fool out of your previous statement

[Demosthenes11]

or I already said that we don't know the context in which this was said so it's fucking pointless to argue it?

[Charla]

And that second part happened in Oregon, so I guess we can't just say lolMidwest.

[Jer]

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

That's the most stupid and ridiculous quote I have ever seen

Your feelings does not make it any less true. If you do not understand why, trying to explain would be an exercise in futility.

As for the context, I thought that the article was clear, despite the wording of the format used. But then again, I guess my reading comprehension may not exactly be up to par because until recently I took the 2nd Amendment too literally.

[Beckwin]

I love conservatives.

-say something that possibly alludes to danger or, in this case, isn't PC/popular opinion, go2jail
-lets have everyone able to own handguns n' shit. don't see how anything bad could happen there.

Keep people quiet. Sit at home with your shotgun on your lap. Keep foreigners out. Bomb the ones you don't like/can make money off of.

Shit like that is plenty for young adults to be pissed off about.

Sounds like this kid was pretty typical for an angry college kid. Probably complained a lot about modern society and politics, its all bullshit etc. Maybe was stressed out a lot too. So he's in class and there's a current events discussion, and he shares his thoughts on how its possible to empathize with the shooter, and some paranoid douches grasp at straws to extrapolate that the kid is a real and present danger that needs to be locked up. Fucking. Dumb.

[Heian]

Yeah, what he did didn't threaten in anyway whatsoever. Running into a theatre telling "Hey, I like pie" is just annoying. You are using a horrible comparison.

If what he did caused his entire class to feel threatened, then doesn't that fit the definition of threatening?

You are an idiot sometimes. You used a terrible analogy and no I'm not reading past page one. He simply voiced his opinion, if you think people should be arrested for thier opinions then I know a couple of people you should hang out with.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...unstHitler.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...lin-post49.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...3/pol-pot2.jpg

and....







http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...13/GeorgeW.jpg

Oh yeah I went there. Lets arest me now because I have an opinon. better yet lets just start banning people on the forums for having an opinion.

[Devek]

Long drawn out circular arguments just make me wanna kill people sometimes.

[HAcoreRD]

What context is there to understand when you tell a room full of people "I often get angry enough to kill 32 people"?

Because of the proximity of this event to the Vtech incident, it could be understood that these students overeacted to his comment. It would have been better to have him take psychological help, then to call the cops on him, and have him go loonier.

Wont calling the cops on him make him angrier, thus sealing their fate if he was contemplating a shooting? Keep an eye on this town, I smell gun powder

[Sigi]

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

That's the most stupid and ridiculous quote I have ever seen

Glad to see you think that quote, from Benjamin Franklin regarding the encroachment of the State in private affairs is so stupid. Such grand conservative values.

I personally like this quote more, from Voltaire: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. "

I think the erosion of the First Amendment is sad. However, if the person was truly acting unstable he should be evaluated not arrested.

Since we were not there, nor have access to a recording of the conversation, there is no way we can make a full judgement. Neither can the police... nor should they.

[Foustian]

We haven't had enough threads on BG recently that have progressed to a Hitler comparison. I applaud this thread.

[Demosthenes11]

can always tell the intelligent people from the morons by the way they talk about bush.
If they say they don't agree with basically everything, hate his guts, and they think he is retarded, there are certainly logical reasons behind it. A hitler comparison or stalin is both irresponsible and complete idiocy, You tell the holocaust survivers bush is just as bad. Just because you don't see eye to eye doesn't make him the anti-christ. Bush-blinders are becoming more of a danger in the public than bush himeself

[BarthelloSylph]

Running into a crowded theater and yelling fire is not protected by the first amendment, and this is pretty damn close.

...

He din't threaten anybody, he simply voiced his opinion(put attention, this is the important part) and was arrested for it.

Making a direct threat is not a necessary condition for people to feel threatened.


After 9/11 had happened, if someone had gone into an airport and said "I hate these fucking security checkpoints, they make me so angry sometimes that I occasionally feel like I want to hijack planes and fly them into buildings", I think you would have a similar situaiton.

Well said - the courts have actually backed this up. This is the way the law works in the US.

[divisortheory]

The first amendment guarantees your right to speak your mind until you infringe upon someone else's rights.

Except when it doesn't. Like, for example, all the examples I gave that you probably didn't read.

[divisortheory]

You are an idiot sometimes. You used a terrible analogy and no I'm not reading past page one. He simply voiced his opinion, if you think people should be arrested for thier opinions then I know a couple of people you should hang out with.

If talking about how you sometimes get the urge to bomb airplanes, in an airport, right after 9/11 is a terrible analogy, and if you think that should be totally a-ok, then i'm not sure how to help you.

[BarthelloSylph]

You are an idiot sometimes. You used a terrible analogy and no I'm not reading past page one. He simply voiced his opinion, if you think people should be arrested for thier opinions then I know a couple of people you should hang out with.

If talking about how you sometimes get the urge to bomb airplanes, in an airport, right after 9/11 is a terrible analogy, and if you think that should be totally a-ok, then i'm not sure how to help you.

Heian, I'm too busy to read the rest of the thread too. But if you are upset about divisors initial post, well, it's not his fault or even his opinion really. These principles have been established by our courts, and thus are as solid as law.

Our right to free speech, while broad and expansive, is not absolute. It's never been that way. Whether that's right or not, I'm not debating. But a lot of people see the US as a bastion of 100% free speech - and unfortunately that's simply not true.