Nyzul Weapon Discussion

[Appie]

opening up new spots for BLM exp beyond the two camps at KRT which were usually overrun with MNKs

Ah... memories... nothing quite like Chi/Voking every bone near the BLM's party till they got the hint to get the fuck out of KRT... good times.

[Croaker]

Mandau
Attack +20, change to +35 Attack
Additional Effect: Poison
Mercy Stroke
add "Sneak Stroke" (attacks from behind the mob have a chance to deal high critical dmg (sneak attack like dmg) for no additional hate)
add Evasion skill +10

Wow. I like the way you think. Please go get a job at SE.

More attack would be cool and justified.

Btw, the poison is too weak. It's only about 10 per second. Either make it higher (20-30), or have it increase during the entire time of effect. 10 the first second, then 11, then 12. Kinda like the way resting HP increases.

The "sneak stroke" sounds fun, but instead of making it a random low %, just lower the sneak attack recast.

The evasion skill +10 is too THF specific. The dagger is also supposedly for RDM an BRD too. There really should be a job specific 6th upgrade that makes the weapons specific to that job. When you trade you Mandau, 500 Million Incus cells, and your Swordbreaker to the Quirin Forgemaster, he gives you the choice of....

THF gets Mandausa (+10 Dagger and Evasion skill)
BRD gets Mandaula (+10 Instrument and Song skill)
RDM gets Mandaura (+10 Enfeeble and Enhancing skill )

It should also have Attack down effect, because thats what swordbreakers do.

Go job SE.... GET!

[divisortheory]

The last truly awesome items for SMN came in the form of Bahamut Staff and the YY Robe, but the last revolutionary BLM item was.... our JSE.

Ah-wa?

SMN don't usually get a lot of good gear, yeah(blame SE for making Avatar's strength have nothing to do with a SMN's stats), but there have been plenty of good pieces for BLM since CoP.

And I'd say the last "revolutionary" piece for BLM would be Obis, which came out after our JSE.

SMN got kicked in the nuts for gear, so did BLMs. I'll give you Obis were pretty f*cking sweet but they still kick us in the nuts a lot for overall stuff.

Some of the Morrigan and Marduk items are pretty nice.

[Hapernack]

I'm not looking for something to revolutionize the job, I'm looking for something that'll at least give us some inventory space back. An all-in-one staff in and of itself would appease most if not all BLMs. I mean heck, give us +1 INT on it over the Aquilo's and we'll go nuts or haven't you noticed our overall zombie-like-hunger for stats?

Revolutionary pieces I define to be items that can change the way you can play a job. Obis allowed us to reliably bonus ourselves on the right day whenever we wanted, JSE gave us pretty much everything we need in our job all in one package, and I'll admit, if anyone manages to ever complete Salvage Morrigan pieces, they're pretty sweet too but Salvage pieces and Novio Earring weren't revolutionary. They're the Herald Gaiters to a skillful SMN. You were just fine without them, all they do is give you a little more town-gear.

*Note* Unless the cumulative set bonus to MAB that Morrigan gives ends up being like +15, then we can seal up the feet and head and just go for body/hands/legs. If the set bonus ends up being awesome, then I'll change my opinion on Morrigan not being revolutionary.

[Nagamaki]

So basically, BLM got items that do exactly the same as what most other jobs got, small/medium improvements?

Maybe you need to re-evaluate the level of pain you associate with a kick in the nuts, cause the comparison is anything but accurate.

And every single job in the game has to carry a ridiculous amount of swapping gear for full effectiveness, so people need to give up on using that as an argument.

And as a separate point, of course I'd love a boost to relics (so that all relic weapons provide a significantly large efficiency boost over all other weapons of that type) but that seems very unlikely. As far as I know SE hasn't acknowledged that there is a problem with them at all.

[divisortheory]

So basically, BLM got items that do exactly the same as what most other jobs got, small/medium improvements?

Maybe you need to re-evaluate the level of pain you associate with a kick in the nuts, cause the comparison is anything but accurate.

And every single job in the game has to carry a ridiculous amount of swapping gear for full effectiveness, so people need to give up on using that as an argument.

And as a separate point, of course I'd love a boost to relics (so that all relic weapons provide a significantly large efficiency boost over all other weapons of that type) but that seems very unlikely. As far as I know SE hasn't acknowledged that there is a problem with them at all.

i don't know about other weapons, but the dagger is pretty fucking overpowered. Sure, I'd love for it to be more overpowered, but i'm not losing any sleep over it. I think if they brought all weapons up to that level a lot more people would be happy with them. The main reason the dagger is so powerful is Mercy Stroke, and from what I understand most of the other relics have garbage weaponskills. Fix the weaponskills and you'd have a lot happier people. Relic WS should be able to produce much higher damage than any other WS for that weapon consistently.

Edit: Except for Staff and Club, those need to adjust cure potency and MAB.

[Hapernack]

So basically, BLM got items that do exactly the same as what most other jobs got, small/medium improvements?

Maybe you need to re-evaluate the level of pain you associate with a kick in the nuts, cause the comparison is anything but accurate.

And every single job in the game has to carry a ridiculous amount of swapping gear for full effectiveness, so people need to give up on using that as an argument.

And as a separate point, of course I'd love a boost to relics (so that all relic weapons provide a significantly large efficiency boost over all other weapons of that type) but that seems very unlikely. As far as I know SE hasn't acknowledged that there is a problem with them at all.

Back on topic and to my first point in the thread, this is about the possibility of the addition of new relic weaponry (Nyzul Weaponry?) and what they should make it like.

Dagger is gewd, Shield is gewd, Horn is gewd. But everything else is pretty much shit for the trouble you go through (except maybe SAM weapon) especially the lolmageweapons. That's why I say we got shafted, not because of every other item in the game we got. Noone can deny there is no point to the existences of Claustrum or Mjollnir other than to show off how little you and your shell know about usefulness of weapons.

[solsovly]

For mage jobs I'd rather see something more... magey. Make a new spell based on elemental skill and summoning skill instead of a WS.

for SMN: Gates of lulz: Summon Ultima or whatever storyline creature makes more sense
for BLM: Cast Ultima, non elemental magic spell damage. edit: make it unresistable, but maybe subject to Chi damage penalties. Basically a very powerful spell with a long cast time. BLM will still be limited to doing as much damage as his hate allows.

Even the club, could be something to enhance benediction. Full HP/MP + Raise III-ga with half the raise sickness time. Or some a new Cure spell that cures and erases all status alignments in one spell.

I hope they don't screw up PUP relic. I'm hoping SE will give them a relic frame. More damage on a weapon is just meh. Give relics something truly unique that you can't get anywhere else. (besides 3x proc and a new ws that most of the time sucks).

edit 2: Hell it could even be a rare/ex scroll reward to learn the spell. But then you'd be missing out on town gear epeen status.

[Hapernack]

For mage jobs I'd rather see something more... magey. Make a new spell based on elemental skill and summoning skill instead of a WS.

This is what makes more sense. Give us new spells rather than a new WS since well... we kinda don't ever WS.

[safer]

marduk still doesnt do much for a smn, just a few pieces of +smn skill that would only be used for ward BP's(which wouldnt make a difference because of the cap on ward's), rage bp's remain unchanged unless some conclusive tests come out showing +skill to be better than the existing enhance attack/acc from AF

its more a brd friendly set, -- the body is only good for whms not casting cures/regens/enfeebles , so like.. haste and flash, and flash is already near instant...

edit: blah i got called into a meeting 1/2 way while typing this, so im a bit late lol

[BRP]

I really don't see why SE doesn't let BLU use Excalibur, COR use Annihilator, and PUP use Sphrai(sic). It's not like for Excalibur's case there isn't already Relics that can be equipped by three jobs and PUP being able to equip a set of "Cesti", if they can be called that(because of their unique origin in Greek fighting), is too far of a stretch. Well, I guess PUP needs B skill first...

Anyway, if they are going to buff melee Relic weapons, they don't need to do a whole lot. Like someone said, the WSes could be better.

If they wanted to more than that, I'd say let people unlock a TP Bonus(100) and/or a Critical Rate+5% through a Weapon Skill Point system. This way, you further distance Relic(top tier) weapons from the current range of weapons. This allows SE more room with weapons like Algol, which isn't as good as it could of been because Rag isn't that far ahead of other GSes like Club or Dagger Relics are to theirs. Maybe Rag could use a damage boost being the highest GS by 1 damage is pretty dumb.

Claustrum? All it would need is the combined positive effects of all eight elemental staves(if you REALLY wanted to be nice, maybe a few percent/1 perp rate more). This wouldn't replace the INT+5 on Ice Staff, the hMP+10 on Dark Staff, or the Cure Potency on Light Staff, but it would still fix out of a lot inventory for a BLM or SMN... and they are getting the best melee staff in the game. A fair trade off I'd say.

The Club Relic probably doesn't even need Cure Potency on it because anyone who upgrades the Club Relic is probably just trying to have fun with melee WHM, so any changes to it's WS or any further abilities gained from WS Points would makea WHM happy... but I guess Cure Potency would be nice for space and that's what a mage relic should aim to do.

Ok, and I think that's all their needs to be said on this. Thinking up of ideas is always fun, maybe I find it too fun actually... but unless you wanna look like a Allakhazam PUP thinking up his "Omega" frame with Barrier and Confuse spells, put some real thought into it okay? Some of those Relic ideas are like putting lazer beams on sharks.

[Taj]

They're going to give PUP Claustrum.

[solsovly]

I really don't see why SE doesn't let BLU use Excalibur, COR use Annihilator, and PUP use Sphrai(sic). It's not like for Excalibur's case there isn't already Relics that can be equipped by three jobs and PUP being able to equip a set of "Cesti", if they can be called that(because of their unique origin in Greek fighting), is too far of a stretch. Well, I guess PUP needs B skill first...

Anyway, if they are going to buff melee Relic weapons, they don't need to do a whole lot. Like someone said, the WSes could be better.

If they wanted to more than that, I'd say let people unlock a TP Bonus(100) and/or a Critical Rate+5% through a Weapon Skill Point system. This way, you further distance Relic(top tier) weapons from the current range of weapons. This allows SE more room with weapons like Algol, which isn't as good as it could of been because Rag isn't that far ahead of other GSes like Club or Dagger Relics are to theirs. Maybe Rag could use a damage boost being the highest GS by 1 damage is pretty dumb.

Claustrum? All it would need is the combined positive effects of all eight elemental staves(if you REALLY wanted to be nice, maybe a few percent/1 perp rate more). This wouldn't replace the INT+5 on Ice Staff, the hMP+10 on Dark Staff, or the Cure Potency on Light Staff, but it would still fix out of a lot inventory for a BLM or SMN... and they are getting the best melee staff in the game. A fair trade off I'd say.

The Club Relic probably doesn't even need Cure Potency on it because anyone who upgrades the Club Relic is probably just trying to have fun with melee WHM, so any changes to it's WS or any further abilities gained from WS Points would makea WHM happy... but I guess Cure Potency would be nice for space and that's what a mage relic should aim to do.

Ok, and I think that's all their needs to be said on this. Thinking up of ideas is always fun, maybe I find it too fun actually... but unless you wanna look like a Allakhazam PUP thinking up his "Omega" frame with Barrier and Confuse spells, put some real thought into it okay? Some of those Relic ideas are like putting lazer beams on sharks.

Your logic is circular. Anyone who upgrades the Club Relic is going to just have fun with melee WHM, therefore it doesnt need Cure Potency? WHM's that want to do their normal job are not upgrading club because it does nothing to enhance their job role. Try putting some positive actual WHM like abilities or enhancements and I'm sure we'd see some more clubs being upgraded.

I don't care if I sound like an Allkhazam PUP to you when I discuss things that are plausible. I hardly think giving a mage relic holder access to a new spell instead of a WS is hardly putting lazer beams on sharks. I'd call it useful. What is rediculous is the fact that a relic weapon isn't more useful than a set of lvl 51 nq staves that can be purchase for under a mil. I'd probably argue that Claustrum is even less useful than a Jupiter staff and a Pluto Staff.

Is PUP getting a relic frame crazy? You would rather have them have a cesti? If they follow the weapon lvl 40 AF weapons, PUP would get a new animator that *surprise* enhances their puppet and not the puppet master. Stop pulling the you sound like an Alla card, especially when its a speculation thread about potential new relics and relics that don't even exist.

Godwin says you are a nazi

[Feielle]

And every single job in the game has to carry a ridiculous amount of swapping gear for full effectiveness, so people need to give up on using that as an argument.

I'm not going to argue that plenty of jobs require them to lug around additional sets of armour, but with standard HNM meds, I usually hit the road at 56-58/60 as a 75 BLM... 2 open slots is a little annoying to have in your "standard" inventory.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most melee have Haste, STR (WS), & ACC sets, right? I'm lugging around Ele Skill, INT, MP, Resting, and Enfeebling gear, then 9 staves on top of that (Kirin's.) I'd appreciate a change to this.

Further, these are level 51 weapons we're talking about. And they're the best we can get? I'm not saying more potency is the issue here; HQ staves are great.... But the necessity to have all 8 of them just to do your job correctly is a little absurd.

To tie this into the topic, I dearly hope they can fix this with the BLM Staff from Nyzul.

even though I know the damn thing is going to end up looking like a level 1 fucking elm staff...

[BRP]

Oi, I so don't want to get into this, but what the hell...

Anyone who upgrades the Club Relic is going to just have fun with melee WHM, therefore it doesnt need Cure Potency?

You are putting too much into what I said. Claustrum and Mjollnir are completely different beasts. Mjollnir would boost a WHM's solo and melee performance unlike no other, while Claustrum doesn't fit into a BLM or SMN's solo(or other tactic) routine at all. Occasionally a SMN or BLM will do some meleeing at some very situation point in the game(well, at least a SMN), but it's nothing like a RDM or WHM.

Now both of these situations are easily overshadowed by the need for a PLD to have his shield, a BRD his instrument, or a melee his weapon. But that'll always be the case. Weapons are meant to be used in melee, so the best weapons will belong to the jobs that do that. The Staff and Club remain situational, but the Club is a lot less situational than the Staff.

Anyway, +10% Cure Potency isn't much of a problem. If they put it on the Club, wouldn't have a single problem with it. It's simply that it doesn't need it like Claustrum needs something.

I don't care if I sound like an Allkhazam PUP to you when I discuss things that are plausible.

A lot of things I hear are not too "plausible".

And it doesn't matter if it is possible, what matters is that if it fits into the game in the best possible manner. If you are going to pretend to be SE, do it in a fashion that makes SE look smart, not dumber than usual.

Is PUP getting a relic frame crazy?

No, but does it really need a new frame? Why not make the current ones better with new attachments or fixing older ones. Let's not forget the AI could really use a boost. I wouldn't mind a new frame I guess, but a frame that uses Confuse and Barrier is quite lol.

they follow the weapon lvl 40 AF weapons, PUP would get a new animator that *surprise* enhances their puppet and not the puppet master.

If they follow the lvl 40 AF weapons, there wouldn't be a shield, instrument, great sword, or great-axe relic. There would be two katana relics. And even if they were to add a Relic Animator(which btw doesn't fit into the Relic storyline at all being a Near East object), why couldn't PUP use a the H2H Relic? Much like Bard being able to use Dagger and Instrument. I'd say there is a greater inconsistency with the fact that PUP is the only job who can't unlock a WS from a quest(if WHM, SMN, BRD, and RDM couldn't, I wouldn't be saying this), and the three new jobs don't have a Relic to wear.

especially when its a speculation thread about potential new relics and relics that don't even exist.

You're right, so we are completely off-topic and should stop talking about this.

[Spira]

Is PUP getting a relic frame crazy?

Yes. A relic frame would have to be better than the normal frames for people to want to upgrade to it, but the fact is that SE intended for all the frames (now at 4) to be balanced between them, so that player WILL mix and match frames to suit your needs. They each have strengths and weaknesses, but those are set in place by design.

By introducing a relic frame, players will only want to end up using that one, defeating the purpose of the customization... and if it cannot be better than the other 4 already, then theres really no point upgrading to it..

I don't forsee PUP getting any relic at all.. but the Nyzul weapon sounds promising.

[MisterBob]

Is PUP getting a relic frame crazy?

Yes. A relic frame would have to be better than the normal frames for people to want to upgrade to it, but the fact is that SE intended for all the frames (now at 4) to be balanced between them, so that player WILL mix and match frames to suit your needs. They each have strengths and weaknesses, but those are set in place by design.

By introducing a relic frame, players will only want to end up using that one, defeating the purpose of the customization... and if it cannot be better than the other 4 already, then theres really no point upgrading to it..

I don't forsee PUP getting any relic at all.. but the Nyzul weapon sounds promising.

I think it would be ok for the Relic frame to be way better than the normal frames, considering the rarity and difficulty of getting it.

[Judai]

Is PUP getting a relic frame crazy?

Yes. A relic frame would have to be better than the normal frames for people to want to upgrade to it, but the fact is that SE intended for all the frames (now at 4) to be balanced between them, so that player WILL mix and match frames to suit your needs. They each have strengths and weaknesses, but those are set in place by design.

By introducing a relic frame, players will only want to end up using that one, defeating the purpose of the customization... and if it cannot be better than the other 4 already, then theres really no point upgrading to it..

I don't forsee PUP getting any relic at all.. but the Nyzul weapon sounds promising.

Shouldn't that be the point of a Relic?

[Khamsin]

Is PUP getting a relic frame crazy?

Yes. A relic frame would have to be better than the normal frames for people to want to upgrade to it, but the fact is that SE intended for all the frames (now at 4) to be balanced between them, so that player WILL mix and match frames to suit your needs. They each have strengths and weaknesses, but those are set in place by design.

By introducing a relic frame, players will only want to end up using that one, defeating the purpose of the customization... and if it cannot be better than the other 4 already, then theres really no point upgrading to it..

I don't forsee PUP getting any relic at all.. but the Nyzul weapon sounds promising.

I think it would be ok for the Relic frame to be way better than the normal frames, considering the rarity and difficulty of getting it.

Or multiple relic frames for less cost/effort than relic weapons (however getting every relic frame would be at least as much as a relic weapon). That way, each relic frame could have its own strength or weakness so there would be desire to obtain multiple relic frames and still retain customization.

[BRP]

I think it would be ok for the Relic frame to be way better than the normal frames, considering the rarity and difficulty of getting it.

Er okay. So you add a single Relic Frame and Head.

Now, tell me, how does the AI work? What does it do? Cure? Melee? Ranged Attacks? Enfeebles? Nukes? Try to hold hate?

I'm not sure how experienced everyone is with the behavior of Automatons, but frame/head is not just for stats, you mix them to get your auto to act a certain way (in combination with maneuvers).

EDIT: I guess you could add Multiple Relic Head/Frames... but jesus, like it wouldn't be hard enough for a PUP to get them.

If they wanted to make a "tier II" head/frame for the current three we got, merits is probably the best way to go about it.