What should an HNM WHM merit? (Tank party/Regen discussion)

[Angelcaido]

knowing what i know now, regen/bar spells (went regen/cure speed)

with /nin i use regen 1/2 to keep tanks topped off so i can pay attention to buffs/-nas. And as mentioned regen merits are nice for merit parties where i will usually only use -ga 1/2 and c5

Cure speed loses a lot of it's worth when you have more than 1 whm at an event. besides if you really want to spam do c3 -> c2, and repeat.

but those with cure cast dont get to interrupt cures [or so i hear]

it's possible to interrupt but have to be paying attention

[Valena]

Went with the cure/barspell line of merit.

For pure HNM situations, this seems a no-brainer to me, too much to gain with these compared to Regen merit.

For merit situation it could be nice... well, if I had another job to 75, say Rdm, I probably wouldn't merit as Whm anymore.


On a side note, I find slightly harder to cancel a cure with capped merit in cure cast, if I realize mid-cast that i'm overcuring

[Eldelphia]

Barspells and cure cast.

I agree that more often than not in big fights small cures fly in from all over the place but it's still nice to have them there quickly. The other reason is much as I love regens, comparatively they take a long time to cast. I use them a fair heap because they are so lovely and efficient but not usually in large fights.

Tend to use Regens on DD's etc but usually in a tank party. We're not a large shell tho so some events we can be doing with tight numbers.

Barspells + Bl.Br. + Cleric's pants = Awesome

Nice stacking cure cast with clogs in dyna too :D

[Aerides]

Next vote: Tier 2

Devotion max
Shellra V max

[Valena]

Next vote: Tier 2

Devotion max
Shellra V max

There will always be someone bitching you because you don't have Pro V


Seriously, i'm afraid to drop the level I put in Protectra V just for that.

[Obev]

Next vote: Tier 2

Devotion max
Shellra V max

Shell V max, one in all of the others.

[Sylphet]

God I'm so sick of this discussion.

THERE IS NO CLEAR CUT BEST MERIT BETWEEN CURE CAST AND REGEN.

Anyone who says that either one is useless or even has less utility than the other frankly, doesn't know what they're talking about. And anyone who thinks they should convince WHMs who have one or the other to change is well.. arrogant and ignorant of the job.

Cure cast time benefits are obvious. Combine with cure clogs to get 35% off of your cure casting time. Yes, this can result in you getting your cure off rather quickly and will at times be what saves someone from death in the nick of time. Always? nope. Sometimes? yep.

The benefits of Regen merits are also strong. Regen has FAR less hate associated with it than Cure spells. Fully merited Regen III combined with Cleric's Briault results in 520HP for 64 MP. Over the course of a long fight when you don't have much out party healing, this is huge for both maintaining low enmity and conserving MP. Will you need it always? nope. Sometimes? yep.

Maybe people who hate Regen are fortunate to have a handfull of out party WHMs who are spamming cures on them at all times but sometimes you have to small man things and every bit of MP and enmity counts. If you're the only healer on Tiamat, you will need all the MP you can get and you shouldn't log, therefore enmity becomes very important.

Oh and I have both by the way. I have Regen merits on my main character and I merited Cure cast time on my 75 WHM mule who now walks around pimped out in my WHM gear since I'm always on BRD now. Both are fantastic merits.

[Sylphet]

Next vote: Tier 2

Devotion max
Shellra V max

There will always be someone bitching you because you don't have Pro V


Seriously, i'm afraid to drop the level I put in Protectra V just for that.

Anyone who bitches that you don't have Pro V either doesn't know how defense works in this game or is a BLU who wants it for Cannonball .

and my vote for group II is

Shellra V: max
Devotion: max

Can stick one in Martyr if you like. Personally I love Devotion so a low timer on that won out for me.

[safer]

God I'm so sick of this discussion.

sylphet kinda nailed it... even for HNMonry whms, depending on your alliance setup and how many whms/support jobs you have, regen merits might be more useful than curecast..

but i'd like to add, it gets even harder to decide because most whms are probably career whms in that they do everything on whm, so they have to also accomodate for those other instances,

tier1 5cure 3bar 2regen
tier2 3devo 2shell 1martyr

pretty much lets me do everything and im very happy with it

[Septimus]

God I'm so sick of this discussion.

THERE IS NO CLEAR CUT BEST MERIT BETWEEN CURE CAST AND REGEN.

Anyone who says that either one is useless or even has less utility than the other frankly, doesn't know what they're talking about. And anyone who thinks they should convince WHMs who have one or the other to change is well.. arrogant and ignorant of the job.

Cure cast time benefits are obvious. Combine with cure clogs to get 35% off of your cure casting time. Yes, this can result in you getting your cure off rather quickly and will at times be what saves someone from death in the nick of time. Always? nope. Sometimes? yep.

The benefits of Regen merits are also strong. Regen has FAR less hate associated with it than Cure spells. Fully merited Regen III combined with Cleric's Briault results in 520HP for 64 MP. Over the course of a long fight when you don't have much out party healing, this is huge for both maintaining low enmity and conserving MP. Will you need it always? nope. Sometimes? yep.

Maybe people who hate Regen are fortunate to have a handfull of out party WHMs who are spamming cures on them at all times but sometimes you have to small man things and every bit of MP and enmity counts. If you're the only healer on Tiamat, you will need all the MP you can get and you shouldn't log, therefore enmity becomes very important.

Oh and I have both by the way. I have Regen merits on my main character and I merited Cure cast time on my 75 WHM mule who now walks around pimped out in my WHM gear since I'm always on BRD now. Both are fantastic merits.

Stop with your sense making!

We all know that bar-spell and regen merits are useless because WHMs are never allowed in the main alliance.

For my second character I was planning on full Regen and cure cast, but now I am not sure and may do regen and bar-spells instead. It is a moot point since he also has 71 BRD, once he gets 75 he will probably never be at an event on WHM ever again. (But at least he will look fantabulous in Sha'ir gear...)

[rezn0r]

Glad to see most people agree with me. Now just gotta convince my WHMs to switch their merits. >8(

i voted for CureCast/Barspells and i'm kind of surprised you were for and not against that (don't mean that in a bad way). i'd have assumed your WHMs agreed with you if that was your stance.

[Italax]

Therin, who asked this? I have this funny feeling I know who it was, because I distinctly remember having a similar conversation in LS before and arguing with someone for like 10 minutes on why Barspell merits were useful. Don't make me come back :<

But yes, agreeing with the general consensus here. Barspell merits, 100%, if you're a HNM WHM and then pick the other based on personal preference.

[dendryte]

Next vote: Tier 2

Devotion max
Shellra V max

There will always be someone bitching you because you don't have Pro V


Seriously, i'm afraid to drop the level I put in Protectra V just for that.

Hate it when I cast Protectra 4 and get the no effect messages from people that didn't bother to cancel the Pro5 they got from another WHM.

But yes,
Bar-spell 5
Cure cast 5
Shellra V 3
Devotion 3

[Therin]

Therin, who asked this? I have this funny feeling I know who it was, because I distinctly remember having a similar conversation in LS before and arguing with someone for like 10 minutes on why Barspell merits were useful. Don't make me come back :<

But yes, agreeing with the general consensus here. Barspell merits, 100%, if you're a HNM WHM and then pick the other based on personal preference.

Sut and Rein both said they'd do Regen over Bar.

[Pyrena]

I tried to respond on our forums, but your post "mysteriously" disappeared Italax.

[Mifaco]

Here's what happens if you merit barspells:

WHM casts Barfira
WHM+PT gains the effect of enhanced Barfira

StupidBRD casts Barfira
WHM+PT loses the effect of enhanced barfira

[Ashira]

Here's what happens if you merit barspells:

WHM casts Barfira
WHM+PT gains the effect of enhanced Barfira

StupidBRD casts Barfira
WHM+PT loses the effect of enhanced barfira

That's why in fights where it makes a difference you make sure people know ONLY THE WHM.

As to me... I originally was going to go Regen and Cure Cast, way back when, because it was before I was in an HNM shell and didn't think Barspell would ever come to use.

Being at 2 and 2 in each at the time I decided to go Barspell crazy, I ticked up another in Regen, maxed Barspell, and am too lazy to redo the rest. Why Regen? Well... I dunno, I have a good sixth sense about casting Cures at times.. the times someone gets one-shotted a faster Cure time wouldn't help me anyway. I guess it's a bit more roundabout for me, being the principal WHM in my Dynamis shell (which is separate from HNM on Odin... are we really the only server setup this way? How the hell did that happen?), and used to a lot of lazyass mages who don't help cure/overzealous melees who can use a good HP/tick regen so they don't get dead. ;D

Still praying for my Cleric's Pntln. -1 drop in Tav... and for a stupid Merciful cape. /sigh... another +3 Barspell there means our NINs can yank off another piece of Fire gear in favor of something else if I'm shield PT WHM... :D

[Aerides]

[quote:43be6]Mifaco wrote:
Here's what happens if you merit barspells:

WHM casts Barfira
WHM+PT gains the effect of enhanced Barfira

StupidBRD casts Barfira
WHM+PT loses the effect of enhanced barfira

That's why in fights where it makes a difference you make sure people know ONLY THE WHM. [/quote:43be6]

Wait... doesn't the brd barfira have no effect? I know when I barfire myself on RDM, then the (non-bar-crazy) WHM does Barfira I get the No Effect on me only - rest of pt gets.

I'm moderately sure same thing when I'm StupidBRD and do barspells on my pt, then LazyWHM wakes up and does them, they overwrite mine....

Doesn't the higher-effect bar prevail?

[dendryte]

Barfira does not overwrite Barfire. Barfira will overwrite Barfira, regardless of resistance amount.

[rezn0r]

Doesn't the higher-effect bar prevail?

i'd assume so yes Aer & am nearly positive although not at home to test it
edit: guess i'm wrong dendryte

Mifaco you could easily argue against Regen merits in the same fashion

WHM casts Regen III on MrTank
MrTank gains the effect of Regen.

StupidBRD casts Cure III on MrTank.
MrTank regains all of his god damn HP.


like many others have said there's no best set, just opinions/playstyles