SMN Perpetuation Cost

[Izzy]

OK, being I've been a 75 SMN for about 3 years now, I felt I needed to post about the rolling thunder issue.

IT IS NOT BASED ON ENHANCING MAGIC YOU ARE A RETARD!!!!!!!!!!!

Go outside and PL a level 10 character in Tahrongi Canyon. Use rolling thunder and watch as the person you're PLing does 2 damage normal swings and 11-15 damage added effect hits.

I mean, do you even know what the fuck you're spitting out of your mouth before you post? Do you even have summoner unlocked? Do you usually go posting steaming piles of dog shit before even testing your hypothesis?

[BRP]

OK, being I've been a 75 SMN for about 3 years now, I felt I needed to post about the rolling thunder issue.

IT IS NOT BASED ON ENHANCING MAGIC YOU ARE A RETARD!!!!!!!!!!!

Go outside and PL a level 10 character in Tahrongi Canyon. Use rolling thunder and watch as the person you're PLing does 2 damage normal swings and 11-15 damage added effect hits.

I mean, do you even know what the fuck you're spitting out of your mouth before you post? Do you even have summoner unlocked? Do you usually go posting steaming piles of dog shit before even testing your hypothesis?

ITT, someone loses it.

[Izzy]

OK, being I've been a 75 SMN for about 3 years now, I felt I needed to post about the rolling thunder issue.

IT IS NOT BASED ON ENHANCING MAGIC YOU ARE A RETARD!!!!!!!!!!!

Go outside and PL a level 10 character in Tahrongi Canyon. Use rolling thunder and watch as the person you're PLing does 2 damage normal swings and 11-15 damage added effect hits.

I mean, do you even know what the fuck you're spitting out of your mouth before you post? Do you even have summoner unlocked? Do you usually go posting steaming piles of dog shit before even testing your hypothesis?

ITT, someone loses it.

I'm FREAKING OUT MAN!!!! Punching and screaming at my monitor AS WE SPEAK!

*EDIT* I get bothered when people come in, with no merit or credibility whatsoever and no evidence supporting their stupid hypotheses, and start running at the mouth like a zammer with a new account.

[Jeryhn]

I laughed at the Crystals thing.

But I also laughed at the notion that the target's Enhancing Skill is a modifier for Rolling Thunder.

[Not Kuno]

Instead of everyone bitching at each other how about some tests. I heard the enhancing thing before, but I never really cared because its a fucking shitty BP. But since you all seem to care it's not hard to test.

[Zihn]

Why dont they make avatar TP reduce the MP cost of the bloodpacts instaid of boosting their dmg or whatever and give the avatar TP regen somehow based on the Perpetuation cost. Overall this should be ballanced so it's a few %MP cheeper to keep an avatar out meleeing to casting bloodpact over and over compared to how mutch mp it costs to summon/release avatar for bloodpact only.

also make a new pet option that makes the avatar enter a dorment state allowing the summoner to rest without releasing the avatar (smn would be stopped from resting if avatar was attacked)

It's called "Release". Assuming a dormant state would mean they don't do anything while in it.

Learn some manners Khamsin, your post and others in that tone will most likely be looked at by the poster as your trying to flame him/her, you would have been way better off writing something like "Wouldn't that be the same as just using "Release" ?"... but i guess it's not cool to use that many words when you can make it look like you came barging in like a member of the fantastic 4 yelling "FLAME ON".

Let me just spell out the diferences for you and others before we get more of your post types.

Release = lose TP, lose hate, get full hp, need time to resummon
Dorment = retain TP, retain hate, retain hp%, dont need time to resummon

allmost no diference indeed.

[Khamsin]

Why dont they make avatar TP reduce the MP cost of the bloodpacts instaid of boosting their dmg or whatever and give the avatar TP regen somehow based on the Perpetuation cost. Overall this should be ballanced so it's a few %MP cheeper to keep an avatar out meleeing to casting bloodpact over and over compared to how mutch mp it costs to summon/release avatar for bloodpact only.

also make a new pet option that makes the avatar enter a dorment state allowing the summoner to rest without releasing the avatar (smn would be stopped from resting if avatar was attacked)

It's called "Release". Assuming a dormant state would mean they don't do anything while in it.

Learn some manners Khamsin, your post and others in that tone will most likely be looked at by the poster as your trying to flame him/her, you would have been way better off writing something like "Wouldn't that be the same as just using "Release" ?"... but i guess it's not cool to use that many words when you can make it look like you came barging in like a member of the fantastic 4 yelling "FLAME ON".

Let me just spell out the diferences for you and others before we get more of your post types.

Release = lose TP, lose hate, get full hp, need time to resummon
Dorment = retain TP, retain hate, retain hp%, dont need time to resummon

allmost no diference indeed.

And you need to learn not to take things so personally, and think that everyone is trying to flame you. Your post could have been summed up in a single sentence if you weren't so bothered by how I wrote my post.

[Izzy]

Testing rolling thunder with a level 5MNK/2WAR in East Sarutabaruta

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6288/thing1iv5.jpg

Screenshots from time of rolling thunder, to end of rolling thunder. Used rolling thunder twice in the duration of these screenshots.

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/2...8143352hh4.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5...8143358zu7.jpg

As you can see, MNK5/WAR2 has no enhancing magic, however, the enthunder damage is capped at the normal 12. You'll also see one or two 6 damage added effects in there, which also shows that the enthunder can be resisted. Which is why using it on high level mobs doesn't work.

[Rakshaka]

The reason I think enhanching magic skill affects rolling thunder is that as far as I can remember, whenever I would use rolling thunder in parties (just for fun), the ninjas would do 0-1 points of damage, while the pld would do 10-12. I don't believe the east saruta test confirmed or denied this, as the rabbits there are EP, and wouldn't resist very much in the first place.

I hope to do a test on sea puks today with a pld and a nin.

[BRP]

The reason I think enhanching magic skill affects rolling thunder is that as far as I can remember, whenever I would use rolling thunder in parties (just for fun), the ninjas would do 0-1 points of damage, while the pld would do 10-12. I don't believe the east saruta test confirmed or denied this, as the rabbits there are EP, and wouldn't resist very much in the first place.

I hope to do a test on sea puks today with a pld and a nin.

Uh yeah, I'm not taking sides, but when people say its effected by Enhancing Skill, I think they mean the resist rate, not the damage cap.

[Izzy]

The reason I think enhanching magic skill affects rolling thunder is that as far as I can remember, whenever I would use rolling thunder in parties (just for fun), the ninjas would do 0-1 points of damage, while the pld would do 10-12. I don't believe the east saruta test confirmed or denied this, as the rabbits there are EP, and wouldn't resist very much in the first place.

I hope to do a test on sea puks today with a pld and a nin.

Uh yeah, I'm not taking sides, but when people say its effected by Enhancing Skill, I think they mean the resist rate, not the damage cap.

The resist rate is based on either the Summoner's level, or more likely the summoner's Summoning Magic skill at the time of the buff.

[Rakshaka]

The resist rate is based on either the Summoner's level, or more likely the summoner's Summoning Magic skill at the time of the buff.

The resist rate of the rolling thunder buff is based off of the enhancing magic skill of the person being buffed.

Here's my evidence...

Evidence:
Seiferx: RDM/NIN - Main job with enhancing skill
Lida: BRD/WHM - SJ with enhancing skill
Mosaku:WAR/NIN - No enhancing skill

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...a/PostPic1.png

I (Lvl 75 SMN with 341 smn magic skill) put the rolling thunder buff on these people simultaneously. Here are pics of their damage on the same puk. They attacked the puk in this order: Seiferx, Lida, Mosaku.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...a/img_0465.png

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...a/img_0466.png

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...a/img_0467.png

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...a/img_0468.png

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...a/img_0469.png

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...a/img_0470.png

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...a/img_0471.png



Seiferx Damage Count:
1 DMG: 3
3 DMG: 2
6 DMG: 4
12 DMG: 9

Lida Damage Count:
1 DMG: 16
3 DMG: 0
6 DMG: 0
12 DMG: 3

Mosaku DamageCount:
1 DMG: 15
3 DMG: 1
6 DMG: 2
12 DMG: 1


The overwhelming majority of the BRD and WAR additional damage effect was for 1 damage, while most of the RDM's additional damage effects did 12 damage. I don't know what else I can give you to show you that enhancing magic skill does affect resist rates on Rolling Thunder. Try this out for yourself if you don't believe me.

IT IS NOT BASED ON ENHANCING MAGIC YOU ARE A RETARD!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean, do you even know what the fuck you're spitting out of your mouth before you post? Do you even have summoner unlocked? Do you usually go posting steaming piles of dog shit before even testing your hypothesis?

Thank you for your thoughtful input, I'm sure many SMN look up to you because of your kindness and wisdom.

[Lynsy]

Well, you could also make a case that if it was on the same puk, the whole resistance towards an element increases with repeated use argument.

Or we can just not be retarded and waste the blood pact usage on anything except for melee PTs agroing a water elemental, since thats really the only time I've ever come up with to use it.

[Jeryhn]

Was the RDM wearing magic accuracy gear?
Are you aware that magic accuracy effects the rate at which magic damage is resisted?

Lets bear in mind that you claimed that Rolling Thunder's damage is effected by Enhancing Skill, as well. I see three people with varying levels of enhancing skill and each one of them hit for both 1 damage and up to 12 damage. That doesn't suggest variances in damage to me through different levels of Enhancing Skill.

[Suiram]

Well, you could also make a case that if it was on the same puk, the whole resistance towards an element increases with repeated use argument.

1. The puk is not an NM, the resistance does not apply
2. The 'resistance' isn't a real resistance but a reduction in maximum magic damage, it would cause occurrences of 11s and 10s (and resisted 5s and 2s) but at roughly comparable resist rates.
3. Contrary to popular opinion, the resistance seems to have nothing at all to do with repeated use of a particular element, but rather the use of any magic-class damage of any element.

So no, you really couldn't make that case.

It looks like Rakshaka suggested that the max damage was based on the enhancing skill of the player who received the buff, and was wrong (it's based on the stats of the SMN who applied it), and Izzy said that the resist rate was based on the stats of the SMN who applied it and was wrong (it's based on the stats of the person who received it).

[Lynsy]

Well, you could also make a case that if it was on the same puk, the whole resistance towards an element increases with repeated use argument.

1. The puk is not an NM, the resistance does not apply
2. The 'resistance' isn't a real resistance but a reduction in maximum magic damage, it would cause occurrences of 11s and 10s (and resisted 5s and 2s) but at roughly comparable resist rates.
3. Contrary to popular opinion, the resistance seems to have nothing at all to do with repeated use of a particular element, but rather the use of any magic-class damage of any element.

So no, you really couldn't make that case.

It looks like Rakshaka suggested that the max damage was based on the enhancing skill of the player who received the buff, and was wrong (it's based on the stats of the SMN who applied it), and Izzy said that the resist rate was based on the stats of the SMN who applied it and was wrong (it's based on the stats of the person who received it).

I know, but I figured someone would say it eventually. Regardless of what that shows, however, it's not a statistically significant sample...

[Fryte]

To be honest, the level 5 mnk/war test is completely useless. Those are the levels where no matter what skill doesn't matter for anything. You could be WAR/BLM and nuke with Stone and get no resists because your potential skill level and the level of the mobs are so close still.

[Rakshaka]

I know, but I figured someone would say it eventually. Regardless of what that shows, however, it's not a statistically significant sample...

Man, I had a hard enough time justifying to myself that putting up my test post was worthwhile, afterall, I expected someone to complain about something in the test. You think I'm going to waste my time with an even more complicated test to prove people wrong again? Nah, I don't waste my time like that. Now it's your turn. Prove to me that enhancing magic skill doesn't affect the resist rate of rolling thunder.

And yes I was wrong about enhancing magic skill affecting max damage. The enhancing magic skill affects resist rate.

[Ashira]

Regardless, who the hell is going to waste MP on a Rolling Thunder BP?

Perp rate whining sounds more like exactly what someone else said... people are having issues buying their staves, or have no way to get themselves things like Bahamut's Staff or Nashira Gages, or maybe even AF2.

But every FF has different forms of Summoners. To use the most recent examples: FFXII are time based and you have no control over what they do. FFX has the big pretty summon and a lot of control over the Aeon and what they learn and can do when you call them. FFIII is a random one-shot move by the summon, healing or offensive.

Frankly, I thought the separation of BPs was brilliant.. I'd often thought something similar, more like separate BPs for each avatar (which would then temper the SMN's use of them simply because of MP use).

I highly doubt this will be anything like the movement to institute lower level avatar fights; then we were all pretty even keel, SMN having been introduced with the Zilart expansion. There was a definite disadvantage though, since the NA players were not at a level that could fight the Prime Avatars.

This is hardly anything to worry about. Most SMNs that have been around for a while now do just fine as is, and SE adjusted the job to *us,* realizing the innate faults they gave it. More BP- gear, some perp- etc, and then the eventual splitting of BPs, which was their biggest bow to us yet.

If they really had continued with the idea of wanting avatars to remain out full time to fight, they'd give better dot damage/acc, more abilities to heal and actually interact with the party, etc, and yeah, they could have fixed perpetuation cost instead of splitting up our BP timers.

If I wanted to argue about perp cost for anything, why on earth do spirits cost so much; one would think it'd be the avatars that cost much more. -.-

Anyway. My two cents.

[aru]

frelling

so sad that they canceled that show before they finished the story, such a random conclusion too.