SMN Perpetuation Cost

[Lynsy]

I know, but I figured someone would say it eventually. Regardless of what that shows, however, it's not a statistically significant sample...

Man, I had a hard enough time justifying to myself that putting up my test post was worthwhile, afterall, I expected someone to complain about something in the test. You think I'm going to waste my time with an even more complicated test to prove people wrong again? Nah, I don't waste my time like that. Now it's your turn. Prove to me that enhancing magic skill doesn't affect the resist rate of rolling thunder.

And yes I was wrong about enhancing magic skill affecting max damage. The enhancing magic skill affects resist rate.

See, I could...But why waste >my< time on something >I< don't care about to disprove someone I don't know on something I don't actually care about? It's easy to say "Hey guyz, I found this" knowing noone will want to bother to disprove it and until they do, you can claim to be right. The only time I have ever used the bloodpact has been in Caedarva Mire when someone agroed a water elemental, when it got almost no resists even though all of your melee were standard burn PT melee (I.E. no enhancing skill).

So here's the thing, really--The only instances in which it's not a total waste of time, MP, and summoner reputation points to use Rolling Thunder are times when there will be no significant resistance anyway and in cases where anyone with significant enhancing magic skill would likely have a better solution, anyway.

Yes, your tests are interesting evidence that it could be. That being said, its anecdotal. My anecdotal evidence says its not. The only people that really care are those that have so much OCD about understanding game mechanics that it apparently extends to things that have no or so few practical applications that it becomes absurd.

[Awoir]

See, I could...But why waste >my< time on something >I< don't care about to disprove someone I don't know on something I don't actually care about? It's easy to say "Hey guyz, I found this" knowing noone will want to bother to disprove it and until they do, you can claim to be right. The only time I have ever used the bloodpact has been in Caedarva Mire when someone agroed a water elemental, when it got almost no resists even though all of your melee were standard burn PT melee (I.E. no enfeebling skill).

So here's the thing, really--The only instances in which it's not a total waste of time, MP, and summoner reputation points to use Rolling Thunder are times when there will be no significant resistance anyway and in cases where anyone with significant enhancing magic skill would likely have a better solution, anyway.

Yes, your tests are interesting evidence that it could be. That being said, its anecdotal. My anecdotal evidence says its not. The only people that really care are those that have so much OCD about understanding game mechanics that it apparently extends to things that have no or so few practical applications that it becomes absurd.

So it's based on enfeebling skill now? o_o!!

[Lynsy]

See, I could...But why waste >my< time on something >I< don't care about to disprove someone I don't know on something I don't actually care about? It's easy to say "Hey guyz, I found this" knowing noone will want to bother to disprove it and until they do, you can claim to be right. The only time I have ever used the bloodpact has been in Caedarva Mire when someone agroed a water elemental, when it got almost no resists even though all of your melee were standard burn PT melee (I.E. no enfeebling skill).

So here's the thing, really--The only instances in which it's not a total waste of time, MP, and summoner reputation points to use Rolling Thunder are times when there will be no significant resistance anyway and in cases where anyone with significant enhancing magic skill would likely have a better solution, anyway.

Yes, your tests are interesting evidence that it could be. That being said, its anecdotal. My anecdotal evidence says its not. The only people that really care are those that have so much OCD about understanding game mechanics that it apparently extends to things that have no or so few practical applications that it becomes absurd.

So it's based on enfeebling skill now? o_o!!

Wewps, mistakes own'n'stuff. Fixed.

[Kyreth]

In case you couldn't tell from the train of quotes, Mellowy is the one who came up with this idea originally.

And now that she has an account at BG, be prepared to have every discussion derailed with how fixing SMN is more important than the whatever else is the focal point of the thread.

Worse, someone actually suggested she come here. To post her ideas. From ZAM.

Is there a polite method of suggesting burning the abomination that resulted clean with the holy fires of Yin?

[Sixtail]

In case you couldn't tell from the train of quotes, Mellowy is the one who came up with this idea originally.

And now that she has an account at BG, be prepared to have every discussion derailed with how fixing SMN is more important than the whatever else is the focal point of the thread.

Worse, someone actually suggested she come here. To post her ideas. From ZAM.

Is there a polite method of suggesting burning the abomination that resulted clean with the holy fires of Yin?

I've never seen at least in the summoner fourms anyone point her to BG. We have actively been trying to get the king of all SMN trolls, Craftermath to come here, simply for sheer comic value..and the quickest ban on BG record. I don't see her sticking around for too long though, there is no karma boosts to be gained here and no one serious gives a shit about her ideas.

[Rakshaka]

Yes, your tests are interesting evidence that it could be. That being said, its anecdotal. My anecdotal evidence says its not. The only people that really care are those that have so much OCD about understanding game mechanics that it apparently extends to things that have no or so few practical applications that it becomes absurd.

Yes, currently rolling thunder has very few practical applications.

What I was trying to do in the first place was state that Rolling Thunder should be fixed, because the buff is partially based off of a person's enhancing magic skill. People didn't believe me about the enhancing magic skill thing, so I posted some evidence.

Now you're asking "why use it? it has few practical applications". I completely agree. I would like SE to fix this. I don't believe that rolling thunder should have more potential for damage when applied to jobs with enhancing magic skill.

Now, if it WAS fixed, it may have more practical applications. It would add a substantial amount of damage in a party, especially in burn parties with multiple nin and /nin.

[Jeryhn]

Stuff yo.

You still didn't answer my question concerning the RDM's equipment.
Was he wearing any pieces of the Chausable or Nashira set when you did this test?

[Suiram]

Stuff yo.

You still didn't answer my question concerning the RDM's equipment.
Was he wearing any pieces of the Chausable or Nashira set when you did this test?

Does it matter? Either way the conclusion is still that the resistance rate is a function of the person who is buffed, and not the SMN who buffed them. I'd imagine that if it is a function of the person's enhancing magic or whatever, then their generic magic accuracy bonuses also factor into it.

[Jeryhn]

Stuff yo.

You still didn't answer my question concerning the RDM's equipment.
Was he wearing any pieces of the Chausable or Nashira set when you did this test?

Does it matter? Either way the answer is still that the resistance rate is a function of the person who is buffed, and not the SMN who buffed them. I'd imagine that if it is a function of the person's enhancing magic or whatever, then their generic magic accuracy bonuses also factor into it.

Exactly.
Which is why I asked if the RDM was wearing any Magic Accuracy gear that could potentially skew the results.

Magic Accuracy effects all sources of magical damage from the person wearing the gear, from Skillchain resistance to Enspell resistance. If the RDM was wearing Magic Accuracy gear, an Enspell effect applied to them from an outside source (like Rolling Thunder) would be effected.

A "pure" test would involve an RDM with capped Enhancing Skill, while wearing no Magic Accuracy gear at all.

[Lynsy]

Yes, your tests are interesting evidence that it could be. That being said, its anecdotal. My anecdotal evidence says its not. The only people that really care are those that have so much OCD about understanding game mechanics that it apparently extends to things that have no or so few practical applications that it becomes absurd.

Yes, currently rolling thunder has very few practical applications.

What I was trying to do in the first place was state that Rolling Thunder should be fixed, because the buff is partially based off of a person's enhancing magic skill. People didn't believe me about the enhancing magic skill thing, so I posted some evidence.

Now you're asking "why use it? it has few practical applications". I completely agree. I would like SE to fix this. I don't believe that rolling thunder should have more potential for damage when applied to jobs with enhancing magic skill.

Now, if it WAS fixed, it may have more practical applications. It would add a substantial amount of damage in a party, especially in burn parties with multiple nin and /nin.

Yea, but even at that...who wants to listen to it for hours?

[Rakshaka]

Yea, but even at that...who wants to listen to it for hours?

wtf are you talking about? All I wanted to say was "SE should fix Rolling Thunder; I believe it should not be based off of a person's enhancing magic skill, because it is." Then I get this flaming wall of rebuttals that still claim that enhancing magic skill doesnt effect Rolling Thunder! It's a very very very simple statement. "FIX THE DAMN BP, ITS USING A SKILL THAT SHOULDNT BE USED". Don't blame me for a thread full of crap coming from the people that comment on my statement.

Stuff yo.

Now, I would like it if we could continue this like decent human beings. I never made any personal attacks on you, I only quoted you where you were wrong, so I don't know why you have to go and paraphrase my post to dismiss it as being retarded.

The RDM had on nashira legs, (+3 magic accuracy). I hope you don't expect me to believe that +3 magic accuracy has that great of an effect on anything. Also, he wasn't using a Hollow Earring, or Enhancing Sword. What's the next reason you can think of to dismiss my findings?

[Khamsin]

I would like SE to fix this. I don't believe that rolling thunder should have more potential for damage when applied to jobs with enhancing magic skill.

Don't you mean "I don't believe that rolling thunder should have less potential for damage when applied to jobs without enhancing magic skill."?

The way you worded it, SE would just make it resist all the time.

...in fact, they probably saw that and are doing it right now. Good going!

[Lynsy]

Yea, but even at that...who wants to listen to it for hours?

wtf are you talking about? All I wanted to say was "SE should fix Rolling Thunder; I believe it should not be based off of a person's enhancing magic skill, because it is." Then I get this flaming wall of rebuttals that still claim that enhancing magic skill doesnt effect Rolling Thunder! It's a very very very simple statement. "FIX THE DAMN BP, ITS USING A SKILL THAT SHOULDNT BE USED". Don't blame me for a thread full of crap coming from the people that comment on my statement.

No, I mean...listen to the sound effect of enthunder from 3-4 people, mostly dual wielding/h2hing for hours. It makes my ears bleed.

[Rakshaka]

Oh, lol. Yea I call it the bug zapper. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

And yea Kham, what I meant to say was that Rolling Thunder should be equally effective (in a good, not bad way) for all jobs. :D

[Jeryhn]

Stuff yo.

Now, I would like it if we could continue this like decent human beings. I never made any personal attacks on you, I only quoted you where you were wrong, so I don't know why you have to go and paraphrase my post to dismiss it as being retarded.

I wasn't "dumbing down" your post, I was truncating the quote in the interests of keeping the train of thought clear.

The RDM had on nashira legs, (+3 magic accuracy). I hope you don't expect me to believe that +3 magic accuracy has that great of an effect on anything. Also, he wasn't using a Hollow Earring, or Enhancing Sword. What's the next reason you can think of to dismiss my findings?

On Sea Puks? +3 Magic Accuracy can go a long way on T to 75 mobs.
I'll still say the test was flawed.

Be a little less defensive in the future, k?

[Rakshaka]

How can I not be defensive? What else am I supposed to be? Should I comment on your findings when you don't have any? Why don't you try posting something so I can nitpick on every insignificant detail about it.

Is there anyone else that thinks that enhancing magic skill doesn't affect Rolling Thunder now? I don't feel like proving this to just one person.

[Suiram]

I'd be defensive, too. If you didn't notice all he did was point out that the damage seems to be less for jobs who didn't have innate enhancing magic, and that guy Izzy was like "YOU'RE A NOOB DO YOU EVEN PLAY SUMMONER? IT'S ONLY BASED ON THE SUMMONER'S STATS!" (and was apparently wrong lol)

[Khamsin]

Not to mention you said he was full of shit, so he had something to prove.

[Izzy]

so what was concluded anyways?

Resist rate based on your job level
Max damage based on SMN level?

I'm still not buying the ehnancing magic thing, more tests would be nice if anyone is incredibly bored today. I'm at work so I can't test.

[Rakshaka]

Post update :D. Can you tell a difference in enspell damage now?