Dark Knight merit party thoughts

[Jeryhn]

If using Souleater once every 5 minutes is a huge hassle for a mage, the mage probably sucks anyway. Not that I would use it every single time it's up but a healer is going to heal and raise or they get the boot. People act like mages can't be replaced in a party.

Conversely, people act like retarded melees can't be replaced in a party either.

[Tordall]

For meritpo mages intrinsically have more say than melees do because there are always about 30 level-75 melees seeking and never any bards or mages.

Ironically the seeking time for a mages for level 73 and 74 are rather long b/c all the parties that are 4/6 or 5/6 have everyone spamming "/sea all 75 rdm", "/sea all 75 whm", or "/sea all 75 brd".

[Tulun]

I think Souleater should be used sparingly. if you can use it without effecting chains, or breaking your healers mp rate, than it's fine.

SE + WS is probably a bad idea because of the 700+ HP loss though ^^ As well as automatically tanking, unless you TA or SATA WS.

[Ceiyne]

It seems like Desperate Blows, well, blows. 5% delay reduction for the whole 30 seconds of Last Resort? Is that even enough time to get an extra swing in? Lol.

Am I missing something?

[Panella]

No, use the Souleater, just don't expect to get healed. Or raised. That is the most obnoxious thing ever when there is only one healer in the party.

If using Souleater once every 5 minutes is a huge hassle for a mage, the mage probably sucks anyway. Not that I would use it every single time it's up but a healer is going to heal and raise or they get the boot. People act like mages can't be replaced in a party.

Mnk/wars, Nin/ and /nin's that seem to suddenly forget they actually can cast utsusemi, and Drks with epeen issues are why I hate merriting on rdm. The whole point of being rdm is effectively using your mp to make the party kill faster. Having to save up mp that could be better used on other things so the drk can flex his epeen gets annoying real quick. Never mind that it personally annoys the shit out of me when a melee abruptly drops under 50% hp when I just sat down to get mp or i'm in the middle of casting a spell.

But you know whatever, if you want to flex your epeen on drk and SE + WS a mob at full hp(because you know, god forbid you wait a little bit and accidentally kill it before you landed all the hits on your ws and "waste" some damage) and knock off half your hp just in time to get fire spitted to the face or something is your business. I personally find the most amusing thing in this game is casting RI on some jackass melee that doesn't understand the concept of not being a mana sponge.

[Rentwokay]

This is the way one of my RDM/WHM friends I merit with a lot looks at it: As a healer, you can't really do any damage in merits. You can, however, Cure the DRK while he leaves Souleater up. And by curing him, you're letting him do more damage.

I really hate this excuse.

"If you keep me at full HP, you're essentially using your Cure spells to deal damage! Isn't that great?"

Yea, almost as great as... you know... using your Cure spells to cure people.

[Onizuka]

No, use the Souleater, just don't expect to get healed. Or raised. That is the most obnoxious thing ever when there is only one healer in the party.

If using Souleater once every 5 minutes is a huge hassle for a mage, the mage probably sucks anyway. Not that I would use it every single time it's up but a healer is going to heal and raise or they get the boot. People act like mages can't be replaced in a party.

If you are the ONLY healer in the party and the BRD is constantly pulling and therefor skipping Ballad 50% or more of the time, you don't have MP to waste on someone's e-peen. Period.

Burn parties get a lot of XP because people cooperate and do things for the good of the team instead of their own numbers. Monk/Warrior puts out highee numbers than Monk/Ninja, but they sub Ninja because otherwise they are gigantic black holes from which no MP will ever escape If someone decides that his/her big numbers are more important than maintaining chain, that person is the replaceable one.

Ive played both sides and I'll have to say, kinda sucks you cant use a fun and strong ability because the mages is dumping to much mp in the crappy wars and or nin. On the other hand nothing sucks more than having the whole pt in yellow your mp @101 (not a big prob) and drk decides to SE guilo... it's how you play it in my mind, ive seen drks SE gulio drain and drain2 get 500+hp back no need for a cure.

If me tossing a smart drk a cure 3 every other 5-6min means his having more fun i could care less. it's no way different than me getting owned with zerk/agg on, drks have save the healers mp quite a few times with good stun timing it's only right to let him have fun to, plus i wouldn't want to pt with a drk who couldn't simply third eye/utsu up after the ws and drain his hp back up, even if it's not to full i toss around enough cure 3's that dmgs worth the 46mp.

[Xno]

Soul Eater is mainly for dmg optimisation, we just use the mp thats arent used

I wasnt using Souleater before drain 2, but now when you drain 2 for 380 , then you can use soul eater and do 380 dmg without wasting mp

And why healers always cure us to full ? we should always cured max to 80-90% HP so we can throw a drain

[RKenshin]

This is always a senstive issue for some lol.. Long post time !

First, realize there are a lot of generalizations made in this topic! I'll agree that a majority of the time, you'll be stuck with a pickup PT DRK that does much more harm than good through using Souleater at bad times. You'll usually get one that either spams it to no end or just doesn't use it. But, it's also important to realize not every DRK is that incompetant about using it.

Souleater does have its uses, and used efficiently it is effective as an extra damage tool that doesn't require much more support than a normal DD. Having a set of dark magic gear to lessen resists, and using Drain/DrainII/Aspir/etc at the right times you really don't even need much curing as long as you're smart about it. Starting a fight with SE > WS > melee with SE isn't an example of this (and sadly is all too common), however what I do tend to do when MP permits is finish a mob with SE and either CR (minor HP loss with SE, still high damage) or Guill and then just wait 2-3 seconds before engaging the next. In the mean time I cast drain to get HP back, then absorb TP, and finish up my TP with a few swings. By this time the mob is usually at least 30-50%, and I'll be able to WS and finish it off once more with a SE+WS.

All in all, it adds up to a good heap of extra damage for maybe 2-3 cure IIIs max as long as there are no mistakes. In retrospect it's really no more (if not less) than how much MP you'd spend on a melee doing similiar output over two fights. And of course, in the event you mess up or things aren't going smoothly, you should know when to cancel Souleater early.

Again though, doing the above when there are MP problems isn't a good idea unless you plan to cancel SE soon after (as long as you drain back your HP). Same applies for any other situation where it's just common sense not to use it... But the sad thing is most DRKs don't get it or don't care, and create a nightmare for mages that makes them dislike the thought of any DRK being in PT with them or using Souleater. It may often be done wrong but again, doesn't mean it can't be done right.

On the topic of Muted Soul though, it basically just allows a couple extra melee hits before you'd normally pull hate. It's nice, but not something to rely on as it doesn't make too much of a difference. Considering the alternative merits though, you're best off with Muted Soul merited if not capped for sure IMO.

As far as DRK's output in exp, I've had some really good results. I love the job and it's a lot of fun, but sadly the PTs I get on DRK for exp are few and far between. I'm always SAM so, yeah... But I've never had the opportunity to exp against someone who was truly decked out, I know I'd lose but I'd like to know how I'd compare. As it stands, vs standard and even average WARs/NINs/MNK/etc I've been able to put out more damage, without 'hindering' the PT in any way.

Recently though, I often 2 box a sort of PL for most exp PTs lol.. An extra cure/raise/na/person to take over a haste cycle at times is really a big help in some PTs, especially in the really rough pickups. But, haven't been able to really do this on DRK, I'd imagine I wouldn't have to be as careful as above with Souleater... As I really doubt my DRK would eat more MP than my SAM/WAR or MNK/WAR, and I almost never have MP problems on either now.

[cassiraa]

...a majority of the time, you'll be stuck with a pickup PT DRK that does much more harm than good through using Souleater at bad times. But, it's also important to realize not every DRK is that incompetant about it.

This alone deserves repeating for the sake of the job as a whole.

[RKenshin]

Agreed! :D

Although, even more DRKs just suck in general at being a DRK than the number of DRKs I've seen that have horrible judgement with Souleater. It's a sad.

The last one I PTed with had 200 Dark Magic skill and didn't have Stun, I couldn't believe it...

Yes, at 75.

[Panella]

Ruke, you're going to get kicked out of the DRK Union for not being a jackass mp sponge like all the others. They have rules you know!

Personally, as a healer souleater just plain pisses me off fundamentally. I know it beefs up the drk's damage and makes stuff die nice and fast but the hp loss makes me want to stab you in the face. If you get hit because you pulled hate or w/e fine, I'll heal you. But when you purposely not only lose hp but do it in big chunks it's a knee jerk reaction to 'accidentally' forget to cure you in time and watch you hit the floor so I can RI your ass. But maybe I'm just spiteful because playing rdm in a party environment for long periods of time makes me bitter.

[Onizuka]

Ruke, you're going to get kicked out of the DRK Union for not being a jackass mp sponge like all the others. They have rules you know!

Personally, as a healer souleater just plain pisses me off fundamentally. I know it beefs up the drk's damage and makes stuff die nice and fast but the hp loss makes me want to stab you in the face. If you get hit because you pulled hate or w/e fine, I'll heal you. But when you purposely not only lose hp but do it in big chunks it's a knee jerk reaction to 'accidentally' forget to cure you in time and watch you hit the floor so I can RI your ass. But maybe I'm just spiteful because playing rdm in a party environment for long periods of time makes me bitter.

Dunno why mages don't mind gimp ass wars and mnks getting owned but heaven forbid an average drk loses more hp than planed



Anywayz Ruk, WTF happened to your war!! ; ; decked out war/nin don't compare to relic sam? wait wait just thought about what might be part of it.. no more 8sword/4axe merits >.<

[Panella]

How exactly does a gimp ass war or mnk pull hate in the first place? But either way, spiteful rdm does not care, spiteful rdm has raise I for all.

[Lordwafik]

But maybe I'm just spiteful because playing rdm in a party environment for long periods of time makes me bitter.

Doesn't help that us RDM don't get to indulge in the nice big MP pools that BLM or WHM get.

[Fallso]

But maybe I'm just spiteful because playing rdm in a party environment for long periods of time makes me bitter.

Doesn't help that us RDM don't get to indulge in the nice big MP pools that BLM or WHM get.

Restart as taru.

[Kyreth]

With Drain + Drain II, Souleater got a bit less nasty.

DRK Dread Spikes, Souleaters, WS to finish a mob (if it doesn't DS takes the hits), cancels Souleater if need be. Drain + Drain II the next mob, he's usually perky again.

What's the big deal? I usually slap a Regen I or a Cure III on the LS DRK in meriting,problem solved as he sucks life off the next mob to top off. DRK's become MP hogs when they sit there using the ability for the full duration for swing after swing. That's not needed for it to be useful.

[RKenshin]

Anywayz Ruk, WTF happened to your war!! ; ; decked out war/nin don't compare to relic sam? wait wait just thought about what might be part of it.. no more 8sword/4axe merits >.<

Doesn't compare sadly. Not to brag at all but just as an example I've still yet to see any other DD produce more output. Not claming it isn't possible but it just hasn't happened yet.

I'm pretty sure the same even applies for my MNK, but I got it to 75 just recently so still having some fun messing around with it in exp.

Ruke, you're going to get kicked out of the DRK Union for not being a jackass mp sponge like all the others. They have rules you know!

Personally, as a healer souleater just plain pisses me off fundamentally. I know it beefs up the drk's damage and makes stuff die nice and fast but the hp loss makes me want to stab you in the face. If you get hit because you pulled hate or w/e fine, I'll heal you. But when you purposely not only lose hp but do it in big chunks it's a knee jerk reaction to 'accidentally' forget to cure you in time and watch you hit the floor so I can RI your ass. But maybe I'm just spiteful because playing rdm in a party environment for long periods of time makes me bitter.

Real DRKs have RR2 !! You wouldn't have the pleasure!

(unless a skoffin dispels it, which wouldn't be fair)

[Sylphet]

Ruke, you're going to get kicked out of the DRK Union for not being a jackass mp sponge like all the others. They have rules you know!

Personally, as a healer souleater just plain pisses me off fundamentally. I know it beefs up the drk's damage and makes stuff die nice and fast but the hp loss makes me want to stab you in the face. If you get hit because you pulled hate or w/e fine, I'll heal you. But when you purposely not only lose hp but do it in big chunks it's a knee jerk reaction to 'accidentally' forget to cure you in time and watch you hit the floor so I can RI your ass. But maybe I'm just spiteful because playing rdm in a party environment for long periods of time makes me bitter.

Ruke is a jackass mp sponge. Don't let him fool you. OK well he's not a jackass but he most certainly is a sponge.

Seriously, read his long post over. Whevever he xps on DRK he always goes DRK/WAR and brings along a PL. In this case, the PL is either me on 75 RDM/WHM or a 75 WHM/BLM on one of our mules. Mind you, myself and our mule are far far far from gimp. It's basically carrying around a spare really good healer who doesn't require a spot in the party. It's not a small boost, the a huge help and allows the luxury of being able to /WAR and do all the fun things DRK do.

Again, whether or not it's appropriate to use SE in XP varies greatly on the setup. A single RDM/WHM with a pulling BRD? I honestly wouldn't reccomend it. At least ask the healer if you can before you go doing it. A RDMs MP is entirely determined by convert being up. If convert is up and they have a few hundred mp, go for it. If not you'll basically force a RDM to convert and spend up to half of their MP keeping you alive within the first minute of their converting, basically screwing up their MP royally until vert is up again. Having a WHM in pt allows for more liberal use of SE. Cure V heals a boatload more HP for the MP input (around 2x the HP for 1.5x the MP of Cure IV) and the RDM can focus on back up healing/hasting/debuffs etc while the WHM cure bombs the DRK.

DRK can be a really fun job (just observation, mine is 37) but so many people just seem to screw it up. Just remember when you're XPing, it's about XP/hour and really nothing else. Having to stop because of {No more MP!} hinders the goal of XP much more so than not doing as much damage. If I have MP, souleater away! If I don't then well.. I don't and /goodbye DRK. Mages respect when melees are aware of things like MP and convert timers.

[RKenshin]

Hey I've only started doing that recently (as in after getting GK)! I still haven't really had a chance to do it for a good DRK PT!