How Base dmg calculates vs attack

[Koyangi]

How specifically does base dmg on a weapon correlate to attack. Like comparing D35 to D40 for example. How much more attack and/or str would you need to make it seem like you have a D40 weapon(if that's even possible) while wearing a D35 one? If what I'm asking doesnt apply itself in that way, are there any simple formulas to know to understand how much each D increase on a weapon actually effect its dmg min and max.

[Starr]

Keeping attack the same you would need an extra 20 STR to make a D35 hit as hard as a D40, keeping STR the same and varying attack depends on mobs defense so I can't tell you straight out.


IBTL/Move

[Ferien]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Base_Damage

[Ichthyos]

If you have enough STR to cap out fSTR, you'll never be able to make a D35 weapon feel like a D40 one. This is because a weapon's base dmg determines its rank, which in turn determines your fSTR cap.

Observed damage before any dmg reduction buffs = (D + fSTR) * PDIF

D is the damage rating of your weapon.

Weapon rank = floor(weapon damage rating / 9)

fSTR is a function of the difference between your STR and the mob's VIT. It maxes out at weapon rank + 8.

PDIF is a random function (taking values from 0 to 3) of the ratio of your atk to the mob's def (maxing out at 2), so changing the weapon's base damage doesn't affect it.

I paraphrased this from VZX's site. He has a nice table of fSTR2 values as well (fSTR = 0.5 * fSTR2)


Edit: Oops, I was going to talk about the case in which you don't have enough STR to cap out fSTR, but forgot to do so.

If you don't have enough STR to cap fSTR, then let's take a look at the values for the two D values you gave. Their weapon ranks are 3 and 4, respectively. Taking a look at the fSTR2 table, you can see that an increase of 20 STR roughly translates to an increase of 5 fSTR, which would compensate for the lower D value in (D + fSTR). Keep in mind that any increase in STR more than 48 over the target's VIT will have no further effect on fSTR, though, for the weapons in question.


Edit2: Hmm, I guess I didn't really address attack. Perhaps you should check out the PDIF table to get an idea of what your min and max damage is based on an estimated PDIF for the mobs you're thinking about. VZX linked me to this thread in which he and some other rangers calculate mobs' def and VIT, in case you need some input data.

[Repairs]

Could you help explain what the Weapon rank calculation is? Or how you calculated base damage of 35 = 3 weapon rank?

floor? (35/9) = 3.8888?

I've looked at VZX website, but I couldn't see where or how the weapon rank was calculated.

Thanks,

[Ichthyos]

the floor function just returns the greatest integer less than or equal to the input value, so floor(3.88888) = 3.

[Spekkio]

floor means to take the greatest whole number less than or equal to the input. for example, floor(2.5)=2 floor(2.6)=2 floor(2.9)=2 floor(3.0)=3. thus, for every 9 damage on a weapon, you have 1 rank.
dmg 1-8 = rank 0
dmg 9-17 = rank 1
dmg 18-26= rank 2
dmg 27-35= rank 3
and on up.

[Koyangi]

This information does help me, but it doesn't really help me on how it's related to attack, does a higher D weapon have a higher "min" the more D it has (like how more attack helps you deal dmg closer to your max and farther from your min), or does higher D simply raise the cap at which you can deal dmg. I hope the question makes sense.

[aurik]

Read the wiki site on damage calculation (when it's back up), its a really good resource.

Summary:
Base Physical Damage = M * D

M is a multiplier determined by attack rating, defense, and whether the attack is a critical or guarded.

D is a scalar determined by weapon damage, strength, agi and dex if the attack is a successful trick or sneak respectively, secondary mods if the attack is part of a weaponskill, and fTP if the attack is the first hit a weaponskill and the attack.

Your question is "how much delta-M would have the same effect as some amount of delta-D". The answer is, it depends on a whole bunch of factors.

[Thitaubian]

...it doesn't really help me on how it's related to attack...

Are you asking if weapons with a higher damage rating require more attack to be as effective as lower damage weapons?
In theory: No.

Raising the ratio of your atk divided by mob defense should have the same effect on a D30 weapon as it does on a D90 weapon when looking at how this changes their min/max damage.

If a weapon with a base damage of 30 (meaning fstr is allready included) has a pdif value of of 1.5 (your atk 150 and mob def 100 f.e.) the minimum damage is 30 and the max is 54.
If a weapon with a base damage of 90 has a pdif value of 1.5 (still 150 and 100) the min damage is 90 and the max is 162.

So they are both effected in the same way by the same values.

...does a higher D weapon have a higher "min" the more D it has ... or does higher D simply raise the cap at which you can deal dmg.

If your atk and mob def are the same, yes a higher D weapon simply has a higher min and max.
...but the higher D weapon requires more str than the lower D weapon to reach its full potential due to higher weapon rank needing more str to cap fstr.



...somehow I have a strange feeling that something is wrong in my reasoning but can't pinpoint it (it's late) can anyone tell me?

[VZX]

...it doesn't really help me on how it's related to attack...

Are you asking if weapons with a higher damage rating require more attack to be as effective as lower damage weapons?
In theory: No.

Raising the ratio of your atk divided by mob defense should have the same effect on a D30 weapon as it does on a D90 weapon when looking at how this changes their min/max damage.

If a weapon with a base damage of 30 (meaning fstr is allready included) has a pdif value of of 1.5 (your atk 150 and mob def 100 f.e.) the minimum damage is 30 and the max is 54.
If a weapon with a base damage of 90 has a pdif value of 1.5 (still 150 and 100) the min damage is 90 and the max is 162.

So they are both effected in the same way by the same values.

...does a higher D weapon have a higher "min" the more D it has ... or does higher D simply raise the cap at which you can deal dmg.

If your atk and mob def are the same, yes a higher D weapon simply has a higher min and max.
...but the higher D weapon requires more str than the lower D weapon to reach its full potential due to higher weapon rank needing more str to cap fstr.



...somehow I have a strange feeling that something is wrong in my reasoning but can't pinpoint it (it's late) can anyone tell me?

The reason (my own reasoning) that high base damage weapon often don't get the number people expect from it is due to low pDIF value

consider when you have pDIF = 0.7 compared when you have pDIF = 1.3 with D45 weapons and D90 weapons

at pDIF = 0.7,
D45 weapon will have damage = (1 - 0.3) * 45 = 45 - 13.5 = 31.5 -> 31
while D90 weapon will have damage = (1 - 0.3) * 90 = 90 - 27 = 63
The damage difference between them? 32

See what happen when the pDIF = 1.3
D45 weapon will have damage = (1 + 0.3) * 45 = 45 + 13.5 = 58.5 -> 58
While D90 weapon will have damage = (1 + 0.3) * 90 = 90 + 27 = 117
The damage difference between them is 59 (!)

See how high base damage weapon got more penalty when pDIF is below 1.0 and high damage bonus also when pDIF is above 1.0?

Conclusion?
When your pDIF is below 1.0, the damage difference between low and high base damage weapon will converge to 0. However, when pDIF is above 1.0, high damage weapon will take the lead.

so for high damage weapon wielder, atk+ is your solution (or force the debuffer to apply def down effect)