Xenogears

[Kaelan]

I was wondering... did all you Xenogears fans even give Xenosaga a shot? Supposedly Xenogears is like, the "4th installment" of Xenosaga if you will, and all the chars are basically reincarnations of the Xenosaga crew.

Short Answer:

The reason people get dissappointed with Xenosaga is that they completly changed everything. As good as Xenosaga's story may be, other than having a few familiar names present(Zohar, Merkaba, the Vessels of Anima, etc, etc), it really has absolutly nothing to do with Xenogears. This wouldn't be so bad if people weren't expecting Xenosaga to be sort of "the whole story behind Xenogears". It has a bunch of little bits and pieces that were reused to put together Xenosaga's storyline, but even there almost every single reference means something completly different in Xenosaga and in Xenogears.

Long Answer:

Major spoilers(and kinda long post) ahead, skip it if you haven't played gears or saga, you'll miss finding all this stuff out on your own

















Originallly the Xenogears storyline was divided into 6 episodes, starting from 15,000 years before Fei's story, explaining the origins of humans on Fei's planet, the creation of the Deus system and the colonization of Neo Jerusalem, going all the way to the story you play in the actual game (which, the entire thing, is only Episode V), and up to the last episode, VI, which is just labeled as "The Future". Since they couldn't exactly put out 6 games right then (obvious enough if you play Xenogears, they were hardly given enough budget to make one complete game, much less six), I imagine the idea from the get-go was to do a Star Wars-ish thing with it - put out one game in the middle of the storyline that can more or less stand by itself and, if it's really successful, use that to get the support later on to pull the entire series together, which is probably why part of the story was left unfinished (mostly Episode VI).

There are some things similar to Xenogears in Xenosaga, such as the fact that the Galaxy Federation, both Lost and Neo Jerusalem and the 'Executive Comittee", major parts of Xenosaga, were originally part of Xenogears' Episode I, but there are also so many differences that I dont think you could call Xenosaga a part of Xenogears....rather just something derived from it that took its own shape by itself. The conflict with the Gnosis, for example, a huge part of Xenosaga, was never anywhere in Xenogear's storyline, the only thing Xenogears mentions is that mankind fought a war amongst themselves around that time, which lead to using Zohar to build the Deus system.

Anyone who's played Xenogears remembers what happened after that, Deus went berserk during testing and nearly destroyed a planet (which was Miktam, actually), was dissasembled and judged too dangerous, and sent away aboard the Eldritch, along with Miktam's survivors, to safety. Midway along, Deus somehow highjacked the Eldrige's main computer (while dissasembled) and crash landed on Fei's planet; the only human survivor was Abel. This is around where Episode II starts - the only reason there were humans that continued to live on that planet was because Deus needed new spare parts to rebuild itself after taking major damage from the crash landing. Fast forward a little bit and you have Episode III with the rise and fall of the Zeboim Civilization and the discovery of nanotechnology, along with Kim creating Emeralda, Episode IV with the war between the humans and Emperor Cain (or the land dwellers vs. Solaris, which the game refers to as "the great war of 500 years ago"), and finally Episode V, which is Fei's Story, aka what you play in Xenogears.

Since they basically removed the core of the Xenogears storyline from Xenosaga (Deus), everything else in Xenogears that was related to it was either removed or changed to be something completly different - the Anima Vessels were originally just one part of Deus' mobile weapons, but were changed to something else entirely in Xenosaga; the Animus were humans that were specifically created to eventually become special replacement parts for Deus and had nothing to do with that in Xenosaga, etc. Some parts of Xenosaga kind of mirror Xenogears: in Xenogears, every several thousand years humankind was completly wiped out by Deus if by then they hadn't "evolved" into suitable replacement parts yet - then they would be recreated from the beginning all over again and this would keep repeating until one day they eventually evolved into "quality parts" Deus could actually use (the nuclear war in the Zeboim Era, for example, was started because of Miang just to wipe out that "cycle" of humans on purpose, because they were considered too weak). In Xenosaga at the very end Wilhelm explains something that keeps repeating in the Xenosaga universe sort of like that cycle that Deus kept humans going through in Xenogears - but not quite the same thing. You can kinda see how it could be taken from that same idea though.

It's way way way, more detailed and complicated than this(despide how tl;dr this post was), I just summed up the major story points, but this gives you an idea of how much work they had put in the Xenogears universe, and kind have an idea of why people who knew all this were dissapointed when they saw that Xenosaga didn't end up to be the retelling of all six episodes of Xenogears in detail, but instead something completly different that wasn't anywhere near as big and only shared a few things in common. This doesn't take away from the fact tha by themselves, the Xenosaga games are still great games...but if you were familiar with the Xenogears storyline, they still could have been so much more. The sad part is since pretty much the entire team behind all of this isn't under Square anymore, chances are we'll never see a game with this actual story all played out like it was originally intended to be, which is a shame considering how amazing it is.

[Exoduso]

It seems like many names/facts stay the same though (like Michtam being destroyed, or the Zohar/Lost Jerusalem)... I guess I should give the game a shot, regardless of said crappy graphics.

[Andarvi]

It seems like many names/facts stay the same though (like Michtam being destroyed, or the Zohar/Lost Jerusalem)... I guess I should give the game a shot, regardless of said crappy graphics.

its the best game ever. you will love it, i promise.

[Ghost_Wheel22]

Three things that are burned into my mind is the O, O, X combo for Fei, the Soylent Green-ish discovery by Fei/Citan (and the joke if you ate the wafers before), and the painting. I actually loved it so much back then I had a semi-professional painting made and it still hangs over my couch.

[Kaylia]

The reason people get dissappointed with Xenosaga is that they completly changed everything. As good as Xenosaga's story may be, other than having a few familiar names present(Zohar, Merkaba, the Vessels of Anima, etc, etc), it really has absolutly nothing to do with Xenogears. This wouldn't be so bad if people weren't expecting Xenosaga to be sort of "the whole story behind Xenogears". It has a bunch of little bits and pieces that were reused to put together Xenosaga's storyline, but even there almost every single reference means something completly different in Xenosaga and in Xenogears

I beg to disagree. While you can't connect A and B perfectly, the general direction the game took is still similar and the ending is surprisingly close too. I see it more like one of those anime remake they make where they alter the story a bit...kinda like both evangelion ending. In this case, we simply have 2 beginning that both lead to event similar to Xenogears >_> You could easily tweak Xenogears intro and connect it to Xenosaga perfectly, since almost every element are there.

Timeline:
---------
[A.D.]
2510 - A project the scope of the entire world, the Space Emigration Project commences.
15 years ago a national institution was founded that supervised the start of this
project. The name of the era is changed to TC(Transcend Christ), where 365 days per
year remains the norm.
[T.C.]
0016 - 16 years ago the National Institution was founded people's wish is being realized.
500 years late an emmigrent fleet leaves the Earth and heads into the abyss of space
on a journey. Earth is taboo after this, it is known as Lost Jeruselum.
(Reasons are unknown, most likely due to sudden change in the environment).
0294 - For roughly 250 years the emmigrent fleet wanders around and discovers a feasible
residence at the M24 Sagitarius star cluster. They land. This planet becomes a
beginning, and the land is christened 'Neo Jerusalem'. Emigrent Management and the
National Institution are reorganized and combined. The first chairman is elected.
With Neo Jerusalem as a starting point, mankind sets its sights to the abyss of space.

0295 - The Star Cluster Federation is started.
New Jerusalem is the principal planet of the Star Cluster Federation.

-4500 Blank Years-

4743 - Through the hand of Archeological Researchers and others, a relic from the Lost
Jeruselum era, MAM(Magnetic Abnormal Matter) is discovered. It was discovered on
a transport freight ship belonging to cosmic wanders in a Pilgramage Fleet who
worshipped an ancient religion.

4744 - Roughly 5000 years passes, the MAM analysis is resumed.
4750 - Through the MAM analysis process, the Phenomenon Alteration Theory comes into existence.
4751 - Top priority was given to completing research on MAM.
Project Zohar is started based this research.
4752 - The cosmic conflict becomes aggrivated.
4765 - The planet where Project Zohar was destroyed through an accident due to ignorance.
MAM was discovered drifting and was recovered.
4766 - Work on Control System Kadamony and Zohar is finished for the time being.
Kadamony's central element, Persona is developed although the details are unknown.
The Strategic Integration Weapon System Deus is developed to stop the current cosmic
war. Zohar is to be used at its main engine.
4767 - In March Zohar becomes Deus's main engine. Both systems were connected at
NGC6744(Note 1), aka Miktam 04 Beta Immigant Planet (immigration was taking place at
a satellite during construction). That same year, due to unknown reasons there was an
accident and both systems went haywire, invading the environment of Miktam 04 Beta.
Quite an enormous amount of damage was dealt. Deus's amazing and uncontrollable power
was such a threat that the military made a great sacrifice to force it into suspended
activity. Afterwards analysis concluded that Deus's core had to be sealed. After an
investigation the Enterprise's Large Space Cruiser Eldridge was commandiered by the
military. Approximately 120 million workers, survivors, and colonies were safeguarded
by going on board the Eldridge.

Event up to 4743 are the same in both Perfect Work and Xenosaga, date and name match perfectly.
4743 is the year Michtam was attacked. This is also when Mizrahi get his hand on the Zohar and anima relic
4752/4753 are the years of the Miltian conflict, match perfectly the little we know about the "cosmic conflict"
4767 is when Xenosaga start. Last 2 years event also happened, but in a different order (not surprising he had to rework certain thing for story telling purpose). Ariadne disapears duringthe Zohar project experiment a few week before Xenosaga start. Kos-mos, which can easily be linked to the persona is developped 2 years before, but is finished by Shion later.

Episode 3 is where the story start to differ a bit, but enough to break the link between XS and XG? Omega (Deus = omega-1) did go Berserk at the end of Episode 2 and was stopped. Technically, if at that point, they sent it on a ship to space with the Abel kid and Kos-mos, they would have had every element to continue with Xenogears. However, the story continue, Abel's Ark take possession of the Zohar and your party end up stopping Wilhelm.

Abel receive his anima power from chaos, as opposed to the WE in Xenogears, Nephilim receive the animus power from Mary and pretty much become the mother as we know her in Xenogears. Every human who rejected the world and want to start over will be carried to Lost Jerusalem for a new genesis (jin is amongst them if you want an explanation for Citan). They brought the Zohar and omega with them, as well as the 12 relic. Could Cain be a manifestation of wilhelm himself, or gnosis desire to go with go with desire?? They sure same some trait (white hair, red eye, immortal, only way to kill them is to use their own power, they both want to activate Omega because it's their role).

The whole kabalism symbolism is still left intact. Abel is the first "true human" (he is additionaly created by God itself in Xenosaga, which is even closer to the original story).

Certain thing in Xenogears were never explained either like the objective of Deus itself, the origine of Abel (come on, why would a 'normal' kid enter in contact with the Zohar...there is something fishy we are missing), what was on Lost Jerusalem...is Xenogears planet Lost Jerusalem? Xenosaga did a good job to explain certain of those thing

[Kaelan]

Kos-mos, which can easily be linked to the persona is developped 2 years before, but is finished by Shion later.

Episode 3 is where the story start to differ a bit, but enough to break the link between XS and XG? Omega (Deus = omega-1) did go Berserk at the end of Episode 2 and was stopped. Technically, if at that point, they sent it on a ship to space with the Abel kid and Kos-mos, they would have had every element to continue with Xenogears.

Nephilim receive the animus power from Mary and pretty much become the mother as we know her in Xenogears.

KOS-MOS isn't a part of omega-1 though. Deus' computer, Kadmoni, has two halves: and electronic logical half and an organic 'illogical' half: -PERSONA- is just one of the parts on the organic side. KOS-MOS is something else altogether . Proto Omega/Omega Res Novae also act and are completly different from what Deus was. Nobody really pilots Deus, it was just supposed to take orders and act on its own. The only similarity is the name, really.

Something far more likely would have been to link the Omega test models in general to Welltall. It took power directly from Zohar, transformed when the pilot reaches a ceirtain state (Fei -> ID), was a weapon, can easily spiral out of control, requires a specific type of pilot to operate, etc. If you look at the entries for Omega ID or Omega Universitas it says has way too much power and not enough endurance, so it has to change its frame to prevent itself from overheating and it generally has a lower operating time than expected. That's almost the exact same description for Weltall in Perfect Works (and probably one of the few parts of XS so directly connected to XG).

The mother in Xenogears was originally one of the composing parts of Deus' program, that was altered by the Wave Existence. In one state she's Miang, in another she's Elehaym. Afaik that has nothing to do with what Nephilim is, although she symbolizes the same thing

There's tons more stuff like that too. Take Merkabah, for example. Merkabah's main purpose was originally just to transport and protect Deus. It wasn't much more than a vehicle with a good self-defense system. Although the new version is a ship for Omega, it can also be a completly stand-alone weapon by itself, and has more than enough power to take out entire planets at a time. It has almost the opposite function it used to have.

Certain thing in Xenogears were never explained either like the objective of Deus itself, the origine of Abel (come on, why would a 'normal' kid enter in contact with the Zohar...there is something fishy we are missing), what was on Lost Jerusalem...is Xenogears planet Lost Jerusalem? Xenosaga did a good job to explain certain of those thing

Deus is a biological weapon created in the middle of a war. Its purpose was to be used to win the war for whoever made it, had it been under control. It was too...'autonomous', though, so it started operating by itself without distinguishing allies from enemies. Despite that its still only a weapon, the only objectives it had was self-preservation and destruction

Abel accidentally stumbled across the Deus\Zohar connection experiment and the facility that housed it, where he made contact with the Wave Existence, and as a result, a woman took form within Zohar. In the game, the Wave Existence takes Abel's "Will for a Mother" and creates Elehaym. Why the wave existence was attracted by Deus though, that's something that I think was never explained.

As for Lost Jerusalem, you just quoted it yourself

016 - 16 years ago the National Institution was founded people's wish is being realized.
500 years late an emmigrent fleet leaves the Earth and heads into the abyss of space
on a journey. Earth is taboo after this, it is known as Lost Jeruselum.
(Reasons are unknown, most likely due to sudden change in the environment).

It's Earth (meaning it couldn't have been Xenogears' planet)
As far as Xenogears' planet goes, there's nothing special about it as a planet, it just happened to be the most convenient place for Deus to crash land as the Eldritch was passing by.

Almost everything follows this same pattern...this is what I meant by what I said before. Several of the names are present, but they mean completly different things. They tried to tackle the same themes(taking stabs are religious themes, etc) and use the same symbolism in the story, but they XG and the XS universes are completly different in the end.

[Kaylia]

KOS-MOS isn't a part of omega-1 though. Deus' computer, Kadmoni, has two halves: and electronic logical half and an organic 'illogical' half: -PERSONA- is just one of the parts on the organic side. KOS-MOS is something else altogether (not to mention the fact that she's not exactly organic). Proto Omega/Omega Res Novae also act and are completly different from what Deus was. Nobody really pilots Deus, it was just supposed to take orders and act on its own. The only similarity is the name, really.

When you look at technical detail, yes, many things changed concerning Deus System. However, on the symbolism level, it's still similar in many way. The biggest difference between both games imo come from U-do, when compared to the Wave Existence. One was trapped, while the other came in our dimension out of curiosity after the first failed contact (Grimoire/Nephilim era). However, one could say Wilhelm trying to blind U-do to operate Zarathustra is the equivalent of trapping it, but this could be a stretch.

That said, the similarities between Kos-mos and Kadmony are still striking. Dual personality, one being the "machine", the other being the "mother"/animus. Kos-mos share the same technologies that was used in Merkabah and Omega, as pointed out in Episode 1 by Shion, and play a vital part in the awakening of Omega/Zarathustra, so yes, she is linked in more than a way with it. T-elos/Kos-mos also share a strong connection with Lillith/eve symbolism (Miang/Elly in XG).

There's tons more stuff like that too. Take Merkabah, for example. Merkabah's main purpose was originally just to transport and protect Deus. It wasn't much more than a vehicle with a good self-defense system. Although the new version is a ship for Omega, it can also be a completly stand-alone weapon by itself, and has more than enough power to take out entire planets at a time. It has almost the opposite function it used to have.

Yep, but we still barely know anything about Deus in XG. They mention it's a "weapon system" in PW, but give no detail about its true purpoe...we don't even know what they were fighting during the conflict. Xenosaga did a good job giving the whole "Omega system" a purpose...many purposes actually, without taking away the "weapon of mass destruction part".

Why Deus took over the Eldrige? What was its objective? Pretty sure I read somewhere he tried to reach Lost Jerusalem/Earth? Why would a berserk weapon head there? Xenosaga doesnt really answer the question about Lost Jerusalem, but it still give Omega a much better backstory than "weapon of mass destruction"

Abel accidentally stumbled across the Deus\Zohar connection experiment and the facility that housed it

The contact happened on the Eldridge actually, when they were escaping mitkcham with the dismantled Omega system. However, you can't you say "accidently stumbled" accross the Zohar. You would expect there was some security behind the artifact of infinite energy that just caused Omega to go berserk? Why would a kid with perfect anima factor happened to be there? He could have been attracted by the Zohar, but I'm pretty sure there many things that weren't said. Either way, Takahashi just wiped everything and started from scratch, giving us a story that can stand on its own, but at the same time, could give us a good insight of what happened before Xenogears.

Call it parallele universe, alternate future or anything you want, but saying XG and XS aren't connected at all doesn't feel right imo. They are too similar to be considered completely independant story with a few cameos. Yes, there is many cameo, and those don't need to be explained, but thing like the timeline, planet name, Omega are not cameo.

It's Earth (meaning it couldn't have been Xenogears' planet)
As far as Xenogears' planet goes, there's nothing special about it as a planet, it just happened to be the most convenient place for Deus to crash land as the Eldritch was passing by.

Almost everything follows this same pattern...this is what I meant by what I said before. Several of the names are present, but they mean completly different things. They tried to tackle the same themes(taking stabs are religious themes, etc) and use the same symbolism in the story, but they XG and the XS universes are completly different in the end.

I know Lost Jerusalem is the Earth, that's why I said that. Spent way too much time on gamefaqs (and other XS forum) to discuss about theories and study my Xeno lores ;x. The reason why I'm saying eldridge might have crashed on Earth is that it was most likely heading there before the crash. I don't think it is because of the inhabitant (chuchu), and world look nothing like Earth, but it's not impossible either considering many thousand years happened between both.
Off topic, the planet in front of Abel's ark is identical to Xenogears's planet (same kind of green/blue planet, with a large dust ring around it). Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not, but they are the only planet in Xeno universe with dust ring


Same universe, one part of the story retold differently (the part we were told in 10 line in Perfect work), that's what I think.

[Kaelan]

Yep, but we still barely know anything about Deus in XG. They mention it's a "weapon system" in PW, but give no detail about its true purpose...we don't even know what they were fighting during the conflict. Xenosaga did a good job giving the whole "Omega system" a purpose...many purposes actually, without taking away the "weapon of mass destruction part".

Why Deus took over the Eldrige? What was its objective? Pretty sure I read somewhere he tried to reach Lost Jerusalem/Earth? Why would a berserk weapon head there? Xenosaga doesnt really answer the question about Lost Jerusalem, but it still give Omega a much better backstory than "weapon of mass destruction"

If there is any hidden purpose behind Deus any more complicated than 'being a weapon to win the war with', then it would fall under the category of "stuff they didn't have time to finish in the storyline because it wasn't going to be used in this game".

And it probably took over the Eldridge because it already had been dissasembled and was likely going to be put completly out of order once it got to wherever it was supposed to have been headed, and it didn't like the idea.

[quote:ef2b9]Abel accidentally stumbled across the Deus\Zohar connection experiment and the facility that housed it

The contact happened on the Eldridge actually, when they were escaping mitkcham with the dismantled Omega system. However, you can't you say "accidently stumbled" accross the Zohar. You would expect there was some security behind the artifact of infinite energy that just caused Omega to go berserk? Why would a kid with perfect anima factor happened to be there? He could have been attracted by the Zohar, but I'm pretty sure there many things that weren't said. Either way, Takahashi just wiped everything and started from scratch, giving us a story that can stand on its own, but at the same time, could give us a good insight of what happened before Xenogears.[/quote:ef2b9]
The Abel/Deus/Zohar part was the one part of my post I had to look up and quoted directly from Perfect Works, actually :x
He didn't have any 'anima factor' as far as I can remember. I don't recall Abel himself ever aligning with any of the relics. As far as Anima go, I can remember the Anima being a component part of Kadmony and the reason some land-dwellers can align with them is because the first humans that were created by Cain were Animus in the form of man.

Why would he stumble into the zohar? We're talking about epic storylines here. One in a million chances crop up nine times out of ten

The reason why I'm saying eldridge might have crashed on Earth is that it was most likely heading there before the crash.

Why would it be taking millions of survivors to an uninhabited planet? :x
I think you're confusing it with the fact that they mention Deus being headed for "the main planet", but never explain the reason behind it, if there is any particular one. That's not where the Eldritch was going, though. I do take back what I said about Deus landing in the most convenient place though. I just read it over and apparently it was also mentioned that wherever Deus was headed, it didn't get there, because it was a bit sloppy with the highjacking, so it ended up getting some good deal of the ship destroyed, had trouble steering and got pulled in by a nearby planet's gravity field, so all in all the fact that it found that planet was a complete accident.

[Kaylia]

If there is any hidden purpose behind Deus any more complicated than 'being a weapon to win the war with', then it would fall under the category of "stuff they didn't have time to finish in the storyline because it wasn't going to be used in this game".

And it probably took over the Eldridge because it already had been dissasembled and was likely going to be put completly out of order once it got to wherever it was supposed to have been headed, and it didn't like the idea.

I still find hard to accept a god like weapon (in xeno universe) would have such a simplistic goal. Would the federation really have created a weapon that move by itself and destroy planet for fun? In Xenosaga, Omega system was still moving around and terraforming planet (you see him do that at the end of ep2 when he destroy miltia), but his main objective was to fight gnosis.

I'm not saying it's illogical or anything, I'm just saying it's not Xeno'like to have godlike thing with little backstory/symbolism.

The Abel/Deus/Zohar part was the one part of my post I had to look up and quoted directly from Perfect Works, actually
He didn't have any 'anima factor' as far as I can remember. I don't recall Abel himself ever aligning with any of the relics. As far as Anima go, I can remember the Anima being a component part of Kadmony and the reason some land-dwellers can align with them is because the first humans that were created by Cain were Animus in the form of man.

My bad, meant to say animus factor in my post, which was always always a requirement to enter in contact with the zohar or the relic in both Xenogears and Xenosaga. It's not too much of a stretch to think that kid had perfect "animus" to become the contact, especially since his descendant/reincarnation also had perfect animus factor


You are correct about the anima relic being turned into the ministry by Cain (which was later destroyed...thats why they had to use land dwellers to complete the contact). As for Abel aligning with the relic, pretty sure he could since Ramsus could do it, and both have the same "contact" power.

Why would it be taking millions of survivors to an uninhabited planet?
I think you're confusing it with the fact that they mention Deus being headed for "the main planet", but never explain the reason behind it, if there is any particular one. That's not where the Eldritch was going, though. I do take back what I said about Deus landing in the most convenient place though. I just read it over and apparently it was also mentioned that wherever Deus was headed, it didn't get there, because it was a bit sloppy with the highjacking, so it ended up getting some good deal of the ship destroyed, had trouble steering and got pulled in by a nearby planet's gravity field, so all in all the fact that it found that planet was a complete accident.

Might have been "main planet" that got mistranslated, could have confused me. The reason why I'm saying they might be heading toward Earth is mostly because it's the only place with anything "special" in both game. If the federation was close, they would have tried to recuperate the Zohar after the crash, but it never happened in Xenogears. Why no one around? Maybe because they were heading in a distant region of space that also happen to be the only point of interest in both series.

Anyway, I was just stating it as a random thought 2 posts ago, wasn't an argument or anything. What is on Earth is the only unanswered question in both game, and would probably have played an important role in XS4-5-6 or Xenogears perfect Work 6, but we will never know

[Kenji_22]

Abel never needed to align with the Anima relics, only those who had a high degree of Animus (the humans of the Xenogears world) could have the potential to align with the Animus, and Fei is exluded from that since he is still in fact a "true" human and not a decendent of humans created by Kadomony.

Also to note someones inital post, The WE was not attracted to Deus. The Zohar began to sync itself with the WE, and in order for it to stabalize itself, it entered Zohar and manifested itself in Kadomony. It is because of this, I believe, that Deus was restarted, because of the whole mess of Zohar bringing in the WE into the whole equation. From that point on Deus began it's take over, in retaliation for the military forcing it's shut down.

And to add to the "Mother" concept. Originally the first mother "Original Elehaym" was not part of the Deus system, but was part of the WE only, until Deus invaded her during exon replacement - tranforming her into Original Miang (second generation mother).

And the Xenogears planet is "not" Earth for sure, mainly because PW states Earth was sealed. My only guess as to why Deus needed to return to Lost Jerusalem, is to seek out whatever is sealed on the planet after Zohar went beserk.

As for Abel finding Zohar. The game makes you assume he stumbled upon it, I actually like to believe Abel was always used as an experiment for Zohar, because I find it hard to believe he could make it past such strict security on the Eldridge.

[Kaylia]

Abel never needed to align with the Anima relics, only those who had a high degree of Animus (the humans of the Xenogears world) could have the potential to align with the Animus, and Fei is exluded from that since he is still in fact a "true" human and not a decendent of humans created by Kadomony.

By "align", I mean draw power from it. If Fei can align with the zohar, he could have aligned with the relic as well, just like Ramsus did. Beside, doesnt Fei anima read infinite when you read the scan result in Solaris?

And the Xenogears planet is "not" Earth for sure, mainly because PW states Earth was sealed. My only guess as to why Deus needed to return to Lost Jerusalem, is to seek out whatever is sealed on the planet after Zohar went beserk.

Never read anywhere it was sealed in Xenogears, where did you see that? Wilhelm sealed it in Xenosaga tho, but it was released in the end.

"0016 - 16 years ago the National Institution was founded people's wish is being realized.
500 years late an emmigrent fleet leaves the Earth and heads into the abyss of space
on a journey. Earth is taboo after this, it is known as Lost Jeruselum.
(Reasons are unknown, most likely due to sudden change in the environment)."

In Xenosaga, the Earth/zohar is the source of sentient life. In XG, it's unclear, but hinted. Xenogears planet had the only other sentient life in the universe on it (chuchu)..coincidence? Maybe. Like I said previously, we don't know where the Eldridge was heading and there is still a lot of mysteries left. Thing like this can't simply be brushed off with the little we know.

Again, I don't think it's Earth for other reasons, but I still see it as a possiblities. I'm more inclined to think there is a connection between the main planet from Abel's ark and Xenogears's planet (3:57), especially if the trip to Earth chaos is doing is going to takes 10000 years.



On a random note, anyone noticed the similarities/cameo between the Durandal and certain part of the Eldrige
Durandal vs Excalibur: Both named are based on legendary sword, and were used to ram into space ship
Durandal and Babel tower: Both ship can turn into a "tower", they both have a huge mirror on the side, they have similar type of cleaning robot (the one in episode 1 are identical to the one you fight on the Eldridge), have many habitants living on it. They both have a tramway thing to travel around
In the story, the Durandal was discarded in poisoneous water, which is what happen to some extent to the Babel tower in XG.

It make me wonder if they didnt original intend to have the Durandal crash in a way similar to the Babel Tower. It did end up crashing on Abel's ark, which is in my opinion the equivalent of Xenogears's planet in Xenosaga, but it's still different.

And a few more random screenshot
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/ ... abahx3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/ ... t/deus.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/ ... System.jpg

This screenshot make me thing they originally wanted to stay closer to the Xenogears, but thing probably changed a bit later.
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/7286 ... ny3ww9.jpg

[Kenji_22]

I dont' see how Fei can align with the Zohar (Xenogears draws power from it). Fei is just simply bound by Zohar, his power comes from WE (although I will need to reread that paragraph stated in game to reconfirm this). And yes, PW does state his Anime is infinite (i did forget about that), so it would makes sense since both Miang/Elahym/Fei are part of the system itself, they can align themselves with any aspect of it, including the relics.

PW stated Earth became unihabitable, which forced humanity to escape it. I meant to really say Earth in that sense became sealed off from humankind.

[Kaylia]

There is a long time period between the moment mankind left and the crash (a lot more than 4676 years). The calendar in this case is misleading, since they traveled for a long time at light speed when they left Earth, meaning many thousand, maybe millions years happened between.


Xenosaga explained the connection to Zohar/relic much better when they were talking about wavelength and the like..something that was missing with Xenogears basic anima explanation. The only way to explain most thing is to find something similar and compare it. Xenogears imo works much better when you uses Xenosaga explanation for the weird stuff.


Here is a paragraph about Grafh's gear.
"Grahf's Gear, Original Weltall (O.R.W for short) was the result of the fusion of the Anima
Container Naphtali and Lacan's Gear*Asah (normal Gear). "
I guess we can both agree Grahf, Fei and Abel are the same? If Grahf can link with relic like this, can we agree Fei and Abel could do it as well, despite the fact it never happened in the game. Abel archetype wasn't a part of the system, but he can replace the Ministry/animus and activate every anima by himself because he is the perfect contact. Ramsus was originally designed to do that as well. I'm not certain Miang can activate relic by herself, but she can controls them once they are activated. Dunno why tho, probaly would have been too easy for her activate every relic and resurect Deus.

Grahf/Lacan's power also come from his uncomplete alignment with the zohar, and it grant him a ton of power. Fei did the same thing in the end. The Xenogears was simply a bonus gift he got from his contact with the Wave Existence. Hell, everyone is able to connect to a certain level with the Zohar, that's the source of the "ether" everyone use. Fei just happen to be able to have a perfect contact/link with it.

[Kenji_22]

Im pretty sure the WE stated the original splitting of Lacan was a result of an incomplete contact with the WE itself, not the Zohar. Grahf has so much power as a result of Lacan being a contact who had the WE's power transfered into him. I know all humanity on the Xenogears planet have their ether source as being the Zohar, but Fei and his past generations have an unlimited power, just like Xenogears, from the WE directly, hence why Xenoegars, for example, continues to exist even after Zohar is destroyed. I would assume this because WE continues to exist whenit returned to the higher dimension.

"Lacan's
imperfect secondary contact with the Wave Existence split his personality into
two."

Thats taken from the game script.

[Kaylia]

Im pretty sure the WE stated the original splitting of Lacan was a result of an incomplete contact with the WE itself, not the Zohar.

The zohar and the Wave existence are the same thing. The zohar is basically a gate toward the upper dimension, while the Wave Existence is the energy being that was lured and got trapped inside the Zohar. Saying it doesnt connect to the Zohar but the Wave Existence is just being nitpick on the wording. The Zohar system without the Wave Existence is nothing


Voice:...Fei ...Fei...
Fei:Who is it? Who's calling me...?
Voice:I... am... [Zo]har...
Fei:What is this light...?
Voice:I reside in Zohar. I am the beginning and the end. The first and the
last.

Wave Existence: As a result, that reactor 'merged' or 'synchronized' with the wave existence in that higher dimension... ME.
After I 'Advented' to the four-dimensional world, in order to stabalize myself here, I had to exchange, or materialize, my form and enter into the 'modifier' engine. In other words, I became bound in Zohar.

[Kenji_22]

The Zohar was already an infinite source of energy before the WE ever came into contact with it. Prior to it trapping the WE (which seems to be while on the Eldridge), it had already been theorized the Zohar may have been the source of all life in the universe.

And only Xenosaga was the first to state Zohar was a dorway between the upper and lower domains, Xenogears never mentioned anything but the fact it was an engine. So I don't see how WE and Zohar are the same. The WE may be bound to the Zohar system, as a result of it entering into it, but they are not one.

[Kaylia]

The Zohar wasn't an infinite energy source, it's the "Zohar system" built later was the infinite energy engine, and only because it tap directly into the Wave existence using the MAM. The true nature of the Zohar was never explained, but we can easily assumed based on the meaning of the word it's some sort of gate to reach the higher dimension.

And yes, I know the Zohar is the source of all life, which is one of the reason why I think Xenogears planet could be Earth (Chuchu = life). I've said that earlier. >_>

And only Xenosaga was the first to state Zohar was a dorway between the upper and lower domains, Xenogears never mentioned anything but the fact it was an engine. So I don't see how WE and Zohar are the same. The WE may be bound to the Zohar system, as a result of it entering into it, but they are not one.

Again, the Zohar system is the "engine", the Zohar itself is the MAM/eye and was found long time ago. We know nothing about it except for the rumor about it existing since the beginning of time and creating life.
I don't see why we couldn't call it a gate to higher dimension, when every hint point toward that. The fact it was used to tap into higher dimension, the meaning of the word zohar and the explanation given in Xenosaga all hints toward that part.

Yes, it was stated clearly in Xenosaga, but just because it wasn't in Xenogears doesn't mean it is something else. There is just too many hints pointing in that direction .

[Kenji_22]

It doesn't say anywhere that the "eye" itself is MAM, however, that was my earliest theory's on another Xenogears forum when PW was beginning to be translated. It's a good theory, one I still like to think about, but there is nothing to say the object found on Earth was the Golden Slab itself, or the eye, which as later placed inside an engine. The word "Zohar", "Engine" and "Modifier" were used interchangebly in the script so much, there really is nothing concrete to say if all are different, or the same. At that point, you just can only speculate..

I would speculate that if the Zohar itself can create the universe, then it is in fact a source of infinite energy (my own assumption that cannot be proven or disproven based on Xenogears only).

And I still can't see Chuchu's world as Earth, as it was uninhabital (Earth) as stated by PW. From what info is given in the story and Xenogears, after Mictam, it only states the Eldridge fled in exile with the survivors from the colony. There could be a million locations that could have embarked on. And Xenogears didnt really hint that it was a doorway. Zohar itself reamained the object of mystery throughout the entire story.

And Xenosaga, really just references some Xenogears points. As much as I wanted it to be linked, they aren't. All the hints and references are just speculation to me, and if that makes you happy, so be it ^^

[Kaelan]

but there is nothing to say the object found on Earth was the Golden Slab itself, or the eye, which as later placed inside an engine.

You mean besides the opening cutscene in XG1? <_<

[Kenji_22]

Im referring to XenoGEARS, not SAGA. Takahasi (or whatever his spelling said) said Xenosaga is a different story.

If your quote is in reference to GEARS, there is nothing in the opening cutscene that suggests either.