Xenogears

[Kaylia]

Actually, there is many line in perfect work that state only the eye part was found on the Earth

"An unknown "Object" discovered approximately 5,000 years ago. The Eye, which is the main body is said to be a product of an "Over Technology"."

" The "Eye" segment stationed about the upper portion of Zohar's main body is the key element
of the Zohar "device." This mysterious device's structure is, of no doubt, artificial origin.
And even more puzzling, it appears to have been in existence since the creation of our
universe. Moreover, the device is pivotal to the world and story's exposition."

" A certain discovery rocked the modern world-an "Object" with the shape of an eye (though
clearly being of unnatural origins) had been found deep within a bed of sedimentary rock that
was approximately 3.9 billion years old. Eventually, one research institution advanced an
alarming new hypothesis about the "Object," stating that its appearance in Earth's geological
timeline coincided with the earliest known life ever found; the hypothesis suggested this
"Object" may have been the source of all terrestrial life: "artificial" panspermia
(Pan-space embryo)."

If the Zohar isn't a "gate" to higher dimension, what do you think the "Path of Sephirot" is? Explain me how they pulled the Wave Existence from the upper realm through the Zohar? Explain me the meaning of the word "Zohar" in a context where it's not related to higher dimension. There is speculation and common sense, Xenogears didn't threw all those reference and explanation for us to deduce it was something else. You can argue on the wording if you want, but that doesnt really change the purpose

The Phenomenon Alteration System, Zohar, repeatedly selects an event with the probability of
zero, while the probability axis continues to incline. At the intersection at which the
phenomenal axis and temporal axis fall parallel, an alternate reality is created; this link
or road is called "The Path of Sephirot." The Path of Sephirot is also the territory of
God and appears, to those who can perceive it, as a watery/wavy place (e.g. the contact scene
between Fei and the Wave Existence).

About chuchu's world, the contradiction come from the fact the Zohar is hinted to be the source of all life, but there was life on another planet. They said it was unhabitable when they left, but life might have survived and evolved again in the next few millions years. Also, XG is suposed to represent Eden, which should be the Earth from a biblical/symbolism standpoint.
Considering every other symbolism were respected carefully (lilith, Abel, protoadam, eve, Cain), it's weird the Eden isn't the Earth.

And Xenosaga, really just references some Xenogears points. As much as I wanted it to be linked, they aren't. All the hints and references are just speculation to me, and if that makes you happy, so be it ^^

I already stated in earlier post why I believe they are linked on a level above the "cameo" level. There is too much continuity between both story to not be related.

Yes, Takahashi was planning to rewrite the whole thing from scratch adding new element to it, but it doesn't take anything away from the connection both game share imo,

[Kaylia]

Im referring to XenoGEARS, not SAGA. Takahasi (or whatever his spelling said) said Xenosaga is a different story.

If your quote is in reference to GEARS, there is nothing in the opening cutscene that suggests either.

Takasashi said he is starting from scratch, which is what he is doing. Doesn't mean they are not connected tho. It wouldnt be the first time a series have many version of the same story.

Either way, I can't understand why people want them not to be linked so badly, when Xenogears and Xenosaga complete each other so well. I personally enjoy thinking something really close to Xenosaga happened before Xenogears, because it answer a lot of plot holes that were never explained. On the other side, knowing Xenogears story give me a good idea of what would happen after Xenosaga Episode 3 based on how thing were played out.

The only mystery left in the Xeno-universe is Perfect work Episode 6. What was it about? Mankind going back to Earth? Why? The End of the universe?

[Kenji_22]

Your first paragraph of the Zohar merely states the eye as the key part of the structure itself. An eyed object can be viewed as either just the eye, or a golden slabe with an eye. The choice is up to the reader, but that paragraph from PW is completly obscure. To each his own.

Yes, there was life on the planet Chuchu was on. In fact Zohar being the source of all life could also indicate Zohar created the whole universe and all the planets within it each holding all different sources of life. Zohar dosesn't "just" have to be tied with the reason for Earth's history. But again, nothing to prove or disprove that.

And who do you mean by "they" pulled the WE? If you mean humans, nothing states to really prove that either. The game for example, merely states Zohar began to sync with the wave existence. It is possible the syncing was a result of human experiement, or it could be the Zohar's doing itself. For all we know, Zohar could merely create a gate within itself that connects to the Path of Sephirot and thus the higher dimension. I'm not disproving the idea that it is "not" a gate, but nothing states it is a gate either (unless you believe the Zohar from Saga is the same idea orignally created for Gears). The Zohar sadly is just not explained enough for GEARS.

And I read your points of the link between the two games. They share related references (connections in that sense if you want to call it), but there are no links that bind the stories as one.

And I don't feel they complete each other, because aside from similar timelines, and a few similar events, they do not tie in to the intro of Gears 15,000 years ago. I personally wanted the series to be linked because I loved Gears and wanted a proper series to tell the story correctly. But I tell you, sometimes I think Takasahi is making up the Xeno story as he goes along. He needs to choose a form of media to tell his story and stick to that media only.

My idea of Episode 6, far before Saga was created was that Fei and the others take Xenogears and travel to Lost Jerusalem.

[Kaylia]

Yes, there was life on the planet Chuchu was on. In fact Zohar being the source of all life could also indicate Zohar created the whole universe and all the planets within it each holding all different sources of life. Zohar dosesn't "just" have to be tied with the reason for Earth's history. But again, nothing to prove or disprove that.

There is a whole paragraph on panspermia and how it impacted life on Earth. Yes, Zohar is also hinted that it might have created the bigbang, but the other paragraph imply Zohar had to be around to make life appears.

And I read your points of the link between the two games. They share related references (connections in that sense if you want to call it), but there are no links that bind the stories as one.

The bible symbolism link them as one in my opinion. One end with apocalypse leading to a new genesis, the other start with an apocalypse that lead to a new genesis. When you compare the calendar, which is the exact same in both case, you get a strong hint that both are connected.

[Gregorio]

I asked this in the pit yesterday but nobody answered me.

In gear battles...whats response do?

[Kaylia]

The stats I think signifiy how much agility is transfered from your character to the gear or something. Think it increase your evasion. I'M not 100% sure...been a while and never really cared about that stats

[Kaelan]

It's Accuracy and possibly evasion I think, although I haven't actually played in a while. Like when you partially block or completly evade stuff, or when mobs do that to you.

And I quoted the first cutscene in XS1 because saga and gears have pretty much the same beginning. It's only after that they start heading in different directions

It's funny you mention EP6 actually, because I just finished (re)playing XS3 the other day and watched the ending again. It leaves an obvious opening for what exactly is going to happen after shion leaves for Lost Jersusalem. I remember thinking right there that that part probably had something to do with whatever they originally had in mind for EP6

[Exoduso]

I read that they decided to have a (sort-of) open ending just in case XS3 did really well (and I'm pretty sure it did extremely well beyond what they were expecting.)

So fingers crossed for XS4. (or at least, a spin-off of some sorts, and maybe even letting you play Shion for the prologue, and after that take off with a new cast.)



And a quick question about EP3...spoilers)
Has Shion really called the Gnosis in the past or not? Because that part STILL confuses me, even after I played the game 2 times... I know that the Testaments created old mitia in her subconscious, and they needed the power of both Shions to re-summon Abel's Ark, but was the past actually true? Because Jr. noted that "this isn't what happened in the past", so I got really confused when they return to the Elsa they all talk as if Shion had actually called the Gnosis... i'm probably missing something, but can anybody explain it to me? heh...

[Kaylia]

It's funny you mention EP6 actually, because I just finished (re)playing XS3 the other day and watched the ending again. It leaves an obvious opening for what exactly is going to happen after shion leaves for Lost Jersusalem. I remember thinking right there that that part probably had something to do with whatever they originally had in mind for EP6

Yep, exactly. It's the only missing piece in Xeno universe, and thinking series might be cancelled forever before we see that part is painful. Both Xenosaga and Xenogears story had decent open ending...but there is that feeling something is missing

I read that they decided to have a (sort-of) open ending just in case XS3 did really well (and I'm pretty sure it did extremely well beyond what they were expecting.)
So fingers crossed for XS4. (or at least, a spin-off of some sorts, and maybe even letting you play Shion for the prologue, and after that take off with a new cast.)

Well, there was that rumor a while back about a game featuring Kos-mos, but nothing else was heard since then. Nintendo did buy Monolith soft, and imo, the studio doesn't have much value if it's not for the Xeno franchise...would make sense if they made some sort of spin off later. But again, they might have bought them for Baiten kaitos and that cataclysm game (forgot the name)

And a quick question about EP3...spoilers)
Has Shion really called the Gnosis in the past or not? Because that part STILL confuses me, even after I played the game 2 times... I know that the Testaments created old mitia in her subconscious, and they needed the power of both Shions to re-summon Abel's Ark, but was the past actually true? Because Jr. noted that "this isn't what happened in the past", so I got really confused when they return to the Elsa they all talk as if Shion had actually called the Gnosis... i'm probably missing something, but can anybody explain it to me? heh...

Shion did summon the gnosis in the past by making a partial contact with U-do, but she never summoned the Ark. That's why they needed to recreate the scene to finish the "summoning". Basically, 14 years ago, she opened the "path" to U-do, and gnosis came throught it. This time, the Ark came to Miltia out of curiousty after Shion complete contact


Dunno if you read the "Truth of Xenosaga", but it help making sense of most scene.
http://www.xenotensei.com/translations/truth_of_xs.html
It's basically the "Perfect Work" of Xenosaga 3

[Exoduso]

Thanks for that link.

And I just finished playing through Abel's Ark for the first time in about 6 months... gotta love the scene with the URTVs after the boss fights.

[Kaylia]

Thanks for that link.

And I just finished playing through Abel's Ark for the first time in about 6 months... gotta love the scene with the URTVs after the boss fights.

Abel's ark was probably one of the best moment in the game. Not that the rest wasn't good, but for a midgame climax, it was really well done.

[Rotsu]

Im playing Xenogears on my PSP these days, 30 hours in the game so far. Brings back old memories when the game first came out

And damn, seriously this game is better than 90% of the recent RPGs . . .

[Weltall]

As you can tell from my name, I am a fan.

Best RPG ever made imo.

[Xavier]

Going to read all the spoilers later, but just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying the Xenosaga series right now. I beat Episode 1 back when it came out, but only just played/beat Episode 2 and started 3. Story has been amazing, but I've been forced to read the database in Episode 3 every time its updated just to know wtf is going on.

Kinda funny, but I think Episode 2 qualifies as the "second disc" of Xenogears. Shorter, not as much substance, but the story was still great. I actually enjoyed the battle system, but it turned random encounters into boss fights, taking several minutes to ten per fight. Game wasn't long enough for its skill system either, as none of my characters were anywhere close to having half the skills by the time I finished the game. Episode 3 though seems like a return to form as far as pacing and substance go.

[Kazen]

I tried to play Xenosaga ep1... a few times, but my game always locks up at the same point and I got irritated with it (about 2hrs into the game right when you enter some door and trigger a cutscene on the ship). That and the place I got it from refused to take it back saying the disc looked fine and it was probably my system (Which never had any problems with any other games, even to this day).

[Kaylia]

Going to read all the spoilers later, but just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying the Xenosaga series right now. I beat Episode 1 back when it came out, but only just played/beat Episode 2 and started 3. Story has been amazing, but I've been forced to read the database in Episode 3 every time its updated just to know wtf is going on.

Kinda funny, but I think Episode 2 qualifies as the "second disc" of Xenogears. Shorter, not as much substance, but the story was still great. I actually enjoyed the battle system, but it turned random encounters into boss fights, taking several minutes to ten per fight. Game wasn't long enough for its skill system either, as none of my characters were anywhere close to having half the skills by the time I finished the game. Episode 3 though seems like a return to form as far as pacing and substance go.

I dont remember much about XS2 skill system, but I know it wasnt even capped by the time I complete the 3 bonus dungeon and the 3 secret boss. Kinda sucks since I like maxing my character, but don't have time for it.

With the exception of the "Missing Years" and Ziggy's backstory, I don't think database is necessary to understand the story. It's really nice after the ending when they update every characters, but they will explain almost everything during the gameplay at some point.

Ep3 is closer from 1 than 2, but it still lacked "substance" in certain part. The pace is too fast, leaving little time for character development, or give the player time to realize what is going on. The final segment actually reminded me of the 2nd CD in Xenogears, when everything big happens at same time. That and Shion's emoness was poorly done, she just sound like a bitch instead of someone who is depressed/confused.

I tried to play Xenosaga ep1... a few times, but my game always locks up at the same point and I got irritated with it (about 2hrs into the game right when you enter some door and trigger a cutscene on the ship). That and the place I got it from refused to take it back saying the disc looked fine and it was probably my system (Which never had any problems with any other games, even to this day).

XS1 is one of the 3 games that used dual layer disk, and many [older] consoles have trouble reading it. Cleaning ps2 lens or putting it on the side helped many people, but it wont fix it all the time. That's why Ep2 and 3 are using 2 disks instead of dual layer.

[Kazen]

Could be that, I was playing it on a day of release PS2, I never tried it in my PS3 so maybe that would work (I would think a PS3 would read it fine if its the dual layer disc, I'll give that a try).

[Kaylia]

Back when I was whoring Xenosaga forum, ps3 didnt exist so I don't know. But yeah, it would probably work well with it. Worth a shot if you enjoy 45min long cutscenes!

[Jefe]

One of my top RPG's along with Chrono Trigger, FF3 (FF6 here in the US), Grandia 2, WildArms series, and FF8. I thought it had a complex story (was a kid when I played it), but very entertaining. Unfortunately, I thought the Xenosaga series were going to have something in common with Xenogears. I played the first and it was a piece of shit.

[Exoduso]

Stop comparing it to xenogears and play the 3 games... #3 makes up for all the crap #1 and 2 puts you through.