Discussion on relic weilders with selling gear to fund relic

[Beckwin]

I'm saying strictly on a time spent doing dynamis basis, they've put in the same work. 7 hours a week is 7 hours a week.

Yes, I understand there are different circumstances for everyone's upgrade process.... like how some people are in the situation of wanting to just finish a goal they've been working towards for a couple years, for example.

Thitaubian/Ruke: Ruke's attendence records are anecdotal in the sense that they only apply to one linkshell on one server and can by no means be considered representational for the general dynamis going population. Furthermore, Ruke's situation is strikingly similar to Xavier's, yet it's obvious just from people posting in this thread that there are other types of dynamis shells and methods for an individual to obtain a relic. I mean, some people grind dynamis for years, fund their own relic, and have been committed to their endgame shell for years as well.

[Rentwokay]

The Apollo's Staff is irrelevant when she upgraded the Relic to become a Ballad whore, anyway.

[Ryko]

The Apollo's Staff is irrelevant when she upgraded the Relic to become a Ballad whore, anyway.

That's nice but they can very well do other shit while the ballads are, y'know, on.

[Beckwin]

I think he was making a joke.

[Ryko]

There is no humor on the internet

Ok fine so I jumped the gun.

[RKenshin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I actually think it's rather accurate to say those attendance records I cited could represent what happens in a lot of linkshells.

Generally, you have a handful of people that are always always there... Then, a majority of the people are piled into a nearly perfect split of people that are there rather often, and people that are there not so often. Lastly, you have a handful of people that are very rarely there. In the end, the average attendance of every member accounted for comes out to around 40-60%.

I'm doubtful that there are many major long-time linkshells that average nearly 100% or 10% as an overall average. But again, correct me if I'm wrong. This is a general observation I'm making so I won't try to say it's anymore right/wrong than someone else's view if they provide evidence.

[Ryko]

I dunno dude, I hear there's this one massively awesome TH stacking dyna shell on quetzacoatl that has consistent 55+ attendance for 3 years with awesome drops and great people who just love being with eachother since theyre just such high quality players. So high quality they don't even need any relevant merits or any of the gear that drops. It's awesome, you should ask around.

[Tubbers]

Also, can't help but laugh that every time someone is trying to make a point about FFXI, they have to bring in Ridill as a comparison. Btw Ruke/Ryko, forgot which, you can feel happy and lucky about getting lucky on a Ridill/D.ring drop, but it doesn't necessarily mean you worked for/"earned" it. Hard to be proud about something that you simply got lucky with.

omgwalloftext. Not to start a loot distribution war again, but I'd rather see a WAR20 get a Ridill who's put in a lot of time than someone who has all jobs that can use at 75 and just joined the LS. Recently a guy in an NA LS on my server got Ridill just because they had no other WAR75's there, and guess what, he stopped playing for about 2 weeks then came back and was in another LS, lol. Allthewhile the THF in their LS who's been going to their camps forever doesn't get shit and watches it go to waste. My point is... time invested makes the accomplishment more of an accomplishment. If this WAR spent 12 months in the first LS trying to get Ridill, I doubt he'd walk away so easily.

I think both of them have Ridills, and I know both of them have D.Rings. It's their massive similarity that drives people to call them the same person. What is laughable is that you are basically saying both of them didn't earn (or perhaps deserve) to get Ridills and D.Rings, which makes you look a fool. Certainly they were lucky to get those jersk (Faf/KB) to drop the good stuff, but as far as who to give it to, that is deserved.

I do however agree with the second part. Certainly a new blood WAR who recently joined shouldn't be given priority over a Ridill that someone else. Leveling WAR to 75 to make good use of a Ridill takes less time than obtaining one.

[Ryko]

Nah in this case I mentioned the ridill specifically when I questioned aodh on whether or not a person would have pride in being lucky with a drop.

[Bagel]

When I finish upgrading Alexander for my PUP, I'm gonna be in soooooooooooo much trouble for all my NQ gear

[Luke]

I'm sure you earned them, not saying you didn't. The thing about FFXI though is that there is a LOT of people who already earned great and/or rare items like D.ring/Ridill but the nature of their rarity means not everyone who earned them can get them; thus making luck the deciding factor. This game can't keep track of how much time you put in in terms of getting rare HNM drops, that's what LS's try to do. I'm sure you earned that D.ring within your LS but did you deserve it among the whole server? I don't attach pride perse to my Ridill, ie I won't brag about having one, but I'm happy I do, because I've seen people get them on their first day to aery and never go back which really reinforces that it is based mostly on luck. I sure as hell can say I camped/killed the fuck out of Fafnir and deserved a Ridill though.

My point overall is just that the more time you invest into getting an item/accomplishing a goal, the more it will mean personally when you achieve it no matter if the end result is the same as somene else. ie, comparing a typically really long process of self-upgrading to a LS-upgrade where the currency is collected then a vote made and a relic finished within weeks a la wham bam, thank you maam, you're now the LS's poster child --- to.. "holy fuck I've been working solely on this relic for 1yr+ and omg if I sell X, Y, Z items, I can finish this much faster.. fuck yeaaaah".

[Beckwin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I actually think it's rather accurate to say those attendance records I cited could represent what happens in a lot of linkshells.

Generally, you have a handful of people that are always always there... Then, a majority of the people are piled into a nearly perfect split of people that are there rather often, and people that are there not so often. Lastly, you have a handful of people that are very rarely there. In the end, the average attendance of every member accounted for comes out to around 40-60%.

I'm doubtful that there are many major long-time linkshells that average nearly 100% or 10% as an overall average. But again, correct me if I'm wrong. This is a general observation I'm making so I won't try to say it's anymore right/wrong than someone else's view if they provide evidence.

Sure, your records are representative of LS's similar to yours. But I thought we were talking about Dynamis attendance in general, not just Dynamis attendance in established all-encompassing endgame shells that fund relics.

Focus can get lost in threads like this with a lot of people trying to get something across. I think what I'm trying to say is that time spent in dynamis for shell-funded relic holders and for private-funded sponsors should be about equal, and that you'd have to figure a decently large margin of the private-funders also have been doing other endgame activities for quite awhile. Does that sound fair? So I don't think it's quite fair to compare time and effort to acquire a relic in that sense. Yes, the ls-funded guy HAD to camp kings and whatnot to be chosen for the relic, but just like the private funder that camped kings as well, he got king gear for those efforts. Furthermore, the ls-funded guy didn't HAVE to spend any time earning gil for the relic- and hell, for some jobs virtually all your endgame gear is gonna be rare/ex stuff you get from doing endgame.

So to bring it all back to the original point.... you look kinda like a douchebag for calling out someone's conduct earning the money to finish their relic, especially if you got a relic free-of-charge (as its established that spending time in dyanmis != relic, universally). Yes, a nq light staff or an amemet mantle is tee-hee funny, but not a reason to deride a person to the degree seen in the relic topic.

That's my argument here, and I don't know if I can really explain it any further or better. Just felt like clarifying since it looks like we're veering into general endgame attendace/what constitutes "earned"/who deserves what kind of a direction.

[RKenshin]

My point overall is just that the more time you invest into getting an item/accomplishing a goal, the more it will mean personally when you achieve it no matter if the end result is the same as somene else. ie, comparing a typically really long process of self-upgrading to a LS-upgrade where the currency is collected then a vote made and a relic finished within weeks a la wham bam, thank you maam, you're now the LS's poster child --- to.. "holy fuck I've been working solely on this relic for 1yr+ and omg if I sell X, Y, Z items, I can finish this much faster.. fuck yeaaaah".

In the same regard though, it's a typically long process of earning that vote. Like I said earlier, people that half-ass dynamis/LS events aren't the ones that get voted to upgrade a relic... It's most often the people that go the extra mile. Going that extra mile doesn't happen over night either, it's usually over the course of years.

In one situation, you go the extra mile in farming to make money over years. In another situation, you go the extra mile in commitment and effort in your LS over years. Regardless, in both, you're putting forth a lot of additional effort towards accomplishing something... And regardless of the process beforehand, you should be able to feel proud either way.

[RKenshin]

Sure, your records are representative of LS's similar to yours. But I thought we were talking about Dynamis attendance in general, not just Dynamis attendance in established all-encompassing endgame shells that fund relics.

But why would this matter or even apply to linkshells outside of ones that sponsor people? Certainly a LS that's just made to farm AF and free lots currency doesn't face the same decisions as one that mostly focuses on upgrading members. If you join that kind of an LS, you shouldn't feel like the LS should change it's methods and upgrade you.

I think what I'm trying to say is that time spent in dynamis for shell-funded relic holders and for private-funded sponsors should be about equal, and that you'd have to figure a decently large margin of the private-funders also have been doing other endgame activities for quite awhile. Does that sound fair? So I don't think it's quite fair to compare time and effort to acquire a relic in that sense. Yes, the ls-funded guy HAD to camp kings and whatnot to be chosen for the relic, but just like the private funder that camped kings as well, he got king gear for those efforts. Furthermore, the ls-funded guy didn't HAVE to spend any time earning gil for the relic- and hell, for some jobs virtually all your endgame gear is gonna be rare/ex stuff you get from doing endgame.

This is making a lot of different assumptions, and mostly off-topic from my point. Odd part as at the start you're saying the effort should be equal, and one of my points has been that the effort is in fact equal for many situations. This is far off-topic from what I was trying to say though so I don't want to get into it further.

So to bring it all back to the original point.... you look kinda like a douchebag for calling out someone's conduct earning the money to finish their relic, especially if you got a relic free-of-charge (as its established that spending time in dyanmis != relic, universally). Yes, a nq light staff or an amemet mantle is tee-hee funny, but not a reason to deride a person to the degree seen in the relic topic.

That's my argument here, and I don't know if I can really explain it any further or better. Just felt like clarifying since it looks like we're veering into general endgame attendace/what constitutes "earned"/who deserves what kind of a direction.

What? I never called anyone out on any of this, nor did I even make degrading remarks over having NQ equipment with relics. I simply argued that people who get relics through help from their LS can just as easily have put as much (if not more) effort into getting the relic as someone that self-sponsored it. And, saying that all LS sponsored relic upgraders are spoiled and have no concept of making money or making considerable amounts of effort couldn't be anymore untrue.

Saying that just shows your ignorance towards recognizing the fact that this is a game, and the amount/quality of the time you put into it is the real money you earn. Especially when there are so many people that just IGE there way to the top.

[Senkhi]

According to some new serious regulations I have to post that I'm locking this thread.

So, I'm locking this thread.

Send me angry PMs if you want it back, but I got a headache from reading it.

[Sonomaa]

locked because of rollback