Einherjar (Tier 1, create a separate thread for tier 2)

[Farfaluna]

Heyy ^^

I will start doing Einherjar with my ls tomorrow, went through the whole thread and I just have 2 questions for now

About the marid, does the kiting trick still works? If not is there any strat appart from stunning p shower and not give it too much tp?

What would work best to pull mobs, 1 single pty with plds+brds to hold/sleep the mobs or have a kiter and main ally pulls off his train?

Thanks for your answers!

[amylea]

Just TP burn the Marid, with SV Songs and all that. One person pulls the chigoes' and BLMs burn them down quick, it barely uses shower anymore (does it even? couldn't really tell) but we just CS stun it at like 10%, Marid is a joke really :<

[Farfaluna]

Thanks! That Marid was freaking me out after all I read about it >.> lol

[Amok]

Out of random curiousity (since I don't do Einherjar) I was wondering how the zone aggro decides the order of ppl to be targetted. This thread has at least two ppl saying how the alliance that pulled fully wiped before anyone from the other alliance died. This makes me wonder if you can control the order in which ppl die once the initial aggro'er/kiter dies. If you created an outside party of 3-4 kiters, if one of them died you could still guarantee that one of the other kiters was the next to be targetted. If that's how it works you could aleviate the huge amount of pressure put on a single person kiting like that rdm/pld taru in the stage6 video.

EDIT:
Better yet, it might be possible to determine the order within the pt if it has anything to do with the 'leader' order (the order in which leader is passed down should the leader DC) which afaik is determined by the order in which pt members were invited.

[Nateypoo]

Disbanding does nothing. Once the puller pulls a mob, all of the mobs of the same type will link and they will have zone aggro on everyone in the zone. Mobs won't reset if the puller dies just because he's not in party.

Just for clarification, are you saying the "super tank" strategy does not work, or are you only referring to the fact that mobs won't reset until everyone is dead? For example, if someone disbanded and sound aggroed mobs, could that person still lose hate on mobs that were untouched? Now that I'm watching the kiting video again, it's kinda hard to tell whether all the mobs are following the kiter.

Hmmm, after 22 pages there is a thing I still have not understood about Morbol Emperor.

Someone's saying both breaths are AoE, someone's saying Sweet is AoE but Bad is conical.
Truth, [Which?]

Tnx ;o

Did it last night with Morbol Emperor. Failed due to not being prepared for the "stealing buffs". Once we figured otu that he stole buffs we took him down fast but left him around 10% due to not realizing this in time. But Sweet Breath is AoE (25-30' radius) and Bad Breath is Conical.

Last night we did Grimgerde's chamber, against some bats and the Morbol Emperor. Bad breath was definitely AoE. This seems like a ridiculous thing to get confused over; it's obvious whether an attack is a cone or AoE, so I'm assuming both accounts are correct and there must be a trigger. We also killed the random mob, Saehrimnir, the tiger. I hate to dig up old rumors, but is it possible that killing the tiger is bad? The only other thing I can think of is the number of mob sets. Perhaps the boss is strengthened if there are less mobs? Then again, we had an easy win against chigoes and the manticore last week, so that doesn't sound right either. -.- I'm getting a little annoyed here because I've read dozens of threads on this, and every account of everything is completely different. I can't tell whether half the people are just being noobs or if it's the event itself that's screwing with us. I can't take anything for .

EDIT: To add to the above, we also entered the chamber with the full 36 people. I doubt it scales, but I figured I'd list that too. And here's another account of the weird hate system after someone dies: http://ffxi.killvoid.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=155990 Apparently someone managed to gain hate from their alliance through no action (unless he was resting when they aggroed). After he ran away, he somehow managed to lose hate entirely, causing the mobs to reset without killing him.

[Xerlic]

Never done the super tank thing before, so I can't really comment on that.

I always thought of Einherjar mobs as having zone aggro. That is, once you aggro something, every mob of the same name will link and they will all have aggro on the guy who pulls. Then once someone pulls a mob off of the train, he will have hate on all the other mobs, as well as any other party member that hits that mob, and the mages who cure those people, and so forth.

I want to liken this to darters, but I know that this isn't true. If a puller dies, I've seen mobs kind of stand around after he dies as if they have cleared aggro, but will then link to someone else who is fighting no matter how far away. Darters will just go after the next person after someone dies without that standing still period.

My point is that having a puller disband from the alliance won't really do anything because the mobs will just link to people fighting regardless.

Honestly, I never really put too much thought into the hate mechanics behind Einherjar because the mobs die so fast. Sometimes the kiter is able to have aggro the entire time, sometimes the horde of mobs will randomly decide to all attack the MA. We tried doing the sound aggro thing, but as far as we can see, it produces the same effect as pulling with a boomerang. That's why we have 3-4 BRD/NINs who are hasted.

I just wanted to warn the guy that disbanding from the party won't cause some kind of miracle result where the mobs won't magically shift hate.

[Nateypoo]

I want to liken this to darters, but I know that this isn't true. If a puller dies, I've seen mobs kind of stand around after he dies as if they have cleared aggro, but will then link to someone else who is fighting no matter how far away. Darters will just go after the next person after someone dies without that standing still period.

You're right about the "standing around" thing. This is what we experienced when the puller aggroed two groups. It seemed like all the mobs were confused for 2-3 seconds after he died. I can't remember if it was just the hounds that paused or both the hounds and ghosts. Both groups attacked us anyway.

[Amok]

I always thought of Einherjar mobs as having zone aggro. That is, once you aggro something, every mob of the same name will link and they will all have aggro on the guy who pulls. Then once someone pulls a mob off of the train, he will have hate on all the other mobs, as well as any other party member that hits that mob, and the mages who cure those people, and so forth.

Don't they zone aggro in the sense that everyone in the zone has aggro-level hate the moment anybody aggro's or pulls a mob? So everyone would die if super tank died regardless if anyone performed any action at all. I compare it to sky gods. Once they're poppd everyone in alliance has aggro-level hate. I know this because you can't use THF Hide ability once they're up even if you didn't do anything else. That means you have to be on the enmity list somehow. I'm convinced that's how it works from reading through the posts in this thread. Some ppl have said that if you RR before everyone dies you'll be killed again even if you don't do anything.

Btw, back to the suggestion/idea I posted before. The idea of disbanding is not to avoid everyone dying should the kiter fail, because that would still happen. I was just mentioning that the order in which they pick ppl off once the initial aggro'er dies depends on leader order within pt and alliance. So that if you had a party of several kiters they would die before anyone else. Just a random idea I thought I'd put out there. Maybe someone with more knowledge of the hate system can tell me wether or not it'd work.

[Nateypoo]

That's basically what I was asking. I was also asking if the person who disbanded "claimed" the mob, if he'd still keep hate until he dies. I don't think anyone knows the answer to either question; I've asked in a couple other places and people keep reciting generic statements about "zone aggro" and skip right over the question. I guess it's easy enough to just pull and sleep stuff right now. I was just thinking along your lines, that there may be a more innovative strategy, in case sleeping everything is too dangerous of an option.

Xerlic's half-kiting idea (from inside the alliance) seemed pretty good. I'd just be worried if we got a mage mob and it came back to -ga III us. If there was a way to remove that element of danger, I'd obviously like to do it instead and just have the sleepers focus on the mobs they already have.



Some random questions about the bombs, "Logi":

1) Do they self-destruct? They become immune to stun when they grow. Is it possible to run out of range?
2) I think they're immune to lullaby, but how well does regular sleep work? Is the duration resisted?

I'm pretty sure they have the PLD "resist sleep" trait. I don't think that affects the duration if a sleep lands though. A BLU also tried an Actinic Burst on them. I'm not sure if he got resisted outright, but they certainly didn't miss him after he cast it. I'm guessing they have massive light resistance at the very least.

[Furionstormrage]

Not to necro a post, but hoping that this can help.

We did Tier 1 Rossweisse last night, 6 Jnun and 12 Skeles.
(Morbol boss but we didn't get that far, first time trying it)

I disbanded the alliance and aggro-kited the Jnun around, then kited the Skeles around, and they never once went after anyone else. They never linked to the person pulling them to the alliance, every single one except the one he had voked stayed glued to me.

[Amok]

Nice to hear that works and that video isn't some wierd exception.

[Nikopiko]

around 10 ghosts, possible 20 ele's was our turn out, pld ran in and voked a ghost. ALL OF THE MOBS came at us. He wasn't really near them at all, and he wasn't low HP, nor did he cast magic, nor did anyone else surrounding him cast magic.

All of the ghosts/ele's came at us, wiping us withing 15 seconds.

What did we do wrong, or can do better to prevent this, Sac pull to a corner? something different? manaburn? what?

[dyluck]

I just wanted to warn the guy that disbanding from the party won't cause some kind of miracle result where the mobs won't magically shift hate.

Hahaha, try telling that to my LS!!! Sadly, my sackholders still don't understand this fundamental law of einherjar mechanics, even after several wipes and failed attempts using the kite strategy. I die a little inside everytime they say "don't worry, kite pt is outside the alliance " They just have no idea

We really should make a sticky containing fundamental einherjar information that is commonly misunderstood by the public, such as the lovely nugget of confusion discussed recently in this topic.

[Jaybar]

around 10 ghosts, possible 20 ele's was our turn out, pld ran in and voked a ghost. ALL OF THE MOBS came at us. He wasn't really near them at all, and he wasn't low HP, nor did he cast magic, nor did anyone else surrounding him cast magic.

All of the ghosts/ele's came at us, wiping us withing 15 seconds.

What did we do wrong, or can do better to prevent this, Sac pull to a corner? something different? manaburn? what?

Mobs will only aggro their own kind, but they still follow their natural aggro standards. Your puller did something to grab the elementals. It's not a glitch. Everything can aggro, even naturally passive monsters.

What you can do better next time is make sure your puller is well aware of his surroundings, and make sure your mages aren't close to magic aggro range, either.

[shirak]

bump because update makes einherjar worthwhile and 90% of posts in this thread are fluff; we need solid info!

Strat for each boss now (ie keep Marid moving?/ Buffalo in corner dd from behind)

Strat for each type of possible enemy group?

Supertank strategies work or no?

Better BG link for these questions?

edit: once the special mobs are spawned, can you claim/sleep wait for timed nukes, or is it going to despawn fast?

[AzazaelFenrir]

Most of what you ask is in this thread, it just requires you to look.

As for the special mob, you need to kill it on site. It will pop 5 minutes after the initial aggro. It will roam around the area for a small time. Go out and get aggro on it, and have your melee nail it. It will depop if you take to long, even if you are fighting it.

[shirak]

maybe you should reread and see that this thread is a lot of what ifs and how do i's aside from a few good gems

I read the thread, couldn't find the answers to these basic questions. Also, almost the entirety of the thread is from 2007.

I guess what I'm asking for is a more centralized and specific run through like there is on Salvage floors and bosses as well as Limbus runs. Someone to take up the mantle as Einherjar guru and help the masses. I personally have 1 run's experience and will need to help my ls through einherjar when the update hits. Would like to be informed as possible of the currents strats, not trying to make the same mistakes twice.

A few things regarding Tier1:

- 3 Chambers: Ross, Grim, and Seig

- Monsters spawned randomly 6-12/2 groups

(Strat for each, and how do you kite each group efffectively?)
Bugard-X Bugards - melee burn?

Chigoe Chigoes - manaburn/aoe?

Craven Einherjar Ghosts - Poison Potions to resist Sleepga, Holy Waters

Dark Elemental Elementals - manaburn/blms

Djigga (Occasionally spawn from Hildesvini) Chigoes - melee

Einherjar Eater Worms - ?

Hazhalm Bat Giant Bats - meleeburn

Hazhalm Bats Bat Trios -
Hyndla Hounds
Infected Wamoura Wamoura
Logi Bomb
Nickur Doomed
Rotting Huskarl (Warrior) Skeletons -
Rotting Huskarl (Black Mage) Skeletons
Sjokrakjen Sea Monks




- Bosses:
Hakenmann (Orobon)
Hildesvini (Marid) - Sam + Blue (only) SC + MB, -ga spells the chigoes, stun the shower
Himinrjot (Buffalo) - Fight with back to wall, go all out from start
Hraesvelg (Manticore) -
Morbol Emperor (Morbol) -
Nihhus (Wivre) -

If we could fill in the defensive/med needs for each group + possible kiting strat+ how to kill best and same for bosses that'd be a large step forward.

I've realized you can't have an overall strat for einherjar, you need to understand the possibilities then deal with them piece x piece once you're in.

I'm going to need a Kite/Sleeper team, hopefully 2x meleeburn teams, and a manaburn team at least from what I gather. Bards/Blus and Sch's will perhaps be the most important to recruit from what I can tell then an even mix of other jobs.

Anyways {Help me out!} If ppl quote a mob or something and give strat to it, I'll take all the pieces and put them together in one place.

[Jaybar]

Try this

Let me know if that helps.

[Neosutra]

FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK.

fuck.

I fucking hate that god damned marid.

Ok everyone, I need some help Q.Q. LS has become awesome at clearing waves of mobs and can handle most any boss, except the marid.

Seriously, its a simple concept: Ga spell the chigoes, stun the god damned shower.

Problem is: Our stunners fucking suck. (Ya I know "lol get better stunners"), but 9 fucking Healing Showers went off last night. NINE. All for around 8-13k healing.

Not to mention, people keep getting picked off by chigoes before the ga spells can go off.

Can anyone offer a better strat to handle the marid Q.Q. Better ways to deal with shower and deal with chigoes faster?

Perhaps kite marid? Have a Rdm diaga chigoes and have another set of jobs handle it? Anyone have any suggestions because we get the marid 80% of the time Q.Q.

[Faithe]

Hmmm. I will help you out.

First, what was your party setup?