New Jobs' Merit 2 Abilities Discussion

[FinalJustice]

Whatever happened to just leveling jobs you enjoy rather than leveling jobs that have OMGSECONDTIERMERITS

Hmm i must have missed a post where someone suggested only leveling jobs with OMGSECONDTIERMERITS

[Xavier]

I'd only level a job with OMG-SecondtierMerits, and you should too if you want to avoid disappointment.

[theo]

Wait what are we talking about, I thought this game only consisted of WAR NIN MNK BRD and RDM.

[Xavier]

Wait what are we talking about, I thought this game only consisted of WAR NIN MNK BRD and RDM.

You sir are a liar. Blackmages get to fight anything thats at least 3 times my size ingame too.

[theo]

Wait what are we talking about, I thought this game only consisted of WAR NIN MNK BRD and RDM.

You sir are a liar. Blackmages get to fight anything thats at least 3 times my size ingame too.

I still don't get it. Where do you find these gargantuan colibri, and why would you wan to merit off of one?

[LD]

I was going to write a different post about how PUP will still suck despite Group 2's that would be broken if applied the same way on any other job, how other jobs don't need the crutch to be good, and how BLU's job limitations would have kept a 6 minute Diffusion and a 5 point per upgrade Assimilation from being broken and would have only unlocked a new avenue for the job, but then I remembered something important about that last bit:

AFv2s for the new jobs still aren't out yet.

I doubt that would do anything for Diffusion, but BLU AFv2 will probably have Set slot and BLU point upgrades.
Even though Assimilation should still be boosted (2/upgrade would be a fine improvement), the 5 point/upgrade enhancement could be more than we could even use when added to potential equipment upgrades.

I still believe Diffusion's recast should be lowered, BLU magical spell MP & power should be adjusted, and that PUP needs to be given serious job adjustment, and not just be given a new gimmicky attachment or high-powered upgrade.
DRG is coming out of the gutter because it lends itself to being fixed, a few adjustments was all it needed and changing Polearm WS power is all it needs to bring it back up a tier.
I really don't believe PUP has the same luxury.
There's very little they could do without making it a MNK with a pet.

[Damane]

I still believe Diffusion's recast should be lowered, BLU magical spell MP & power should be adjusted, and that PUP needs to be given serious job adjustment, and not just be given a new gimmicky attachment or high-powered upgrade.
DRG is coming out of the gutter because it lends itself to being fixed, a few adjustments was all it needed and changing Polearm WS power is all it needs to bring it back up a tier.
I really don't believe PUP has the same luxury.
There's very little they could do without making it a MNK with a pet.

thats why you should turn PUP into a PET with a halfassed MNK and not into a MNK with a pet.... There is no point in raising the dmg capabilitys of the master itself, SE should rather focus ond bringing up the pets cabability, power and fighting style to the same tier as other people. The selling point of PUP is his versatile pet, but its not a selling point because the pet is crap atm. If you adjust the pets power and capabilitys of it I could see a very versatile job comeing out of this, like BLU is one. The only difference would be that one job acts directly and the other acts inderactly through a pet. The same problem BST suffers. Their pet (jug pets) didnt scale up accordingly in the past years with the power that the players got of from different merits/equipment/adjustment boosts. Same goes with SMN pets, their pets become powerfull beasts when they hit lvl 70 and get their uber bloodpacts, in the lower lvls the dmg capabilitys of their pets are laughable, some buffs are nice but meh... DRG doesnt suffer this problem, because the master itsself is the main dmg source, while the pet is just a nice addition that can switch into different modes of fighting. SE just has a problem with pet jobs and the way of balancing and implimenting them in the game.

[LD]

Ya, but don't you get it?
Make the Puppet any better and you're a SMN.
Make the Master any better and you're a DRG.
Make them both more powerful than they are now, you're a MNK with a pet.

The job needs a niche, not power, and neither are really being provided.
IMO, giving them Raging, Howling, and DK was a bad idea, they should be focusing on making both sides unique BEFORE making them better.

Very simple, in fact. It's an old idea, not sure who's, but it was good.
Puppetmasters are supposed to be performers, give them JA debuffs based on acrobatics that the PT can capitalize on.
Unique things, like Damage taken plus, or Damage dealt minus, or Resistance down.
This will improve the puppet's ability to deal damage or land it's own spell and the rest of the PT will have a new, unique debuffer that can also deal damage through his puppet.
A reverse COR.

[Damane]

Ya, but don't you get it?
Make the Puppet any better and you're a SMN.
Make the Master any better and you're a DRG.
Make them both more powerful than they are now, you're a MNK with a pet.

The job needs a niche, not power, and neither are really being provided.

if you make the maton any better you are not a SMN. Because 1. the SMN needs MP for his pet and a PUP doesnt, 2. the SMN can summon ANYTIME assumeing he has MP while the PUP can not resummen a PUP immidiately if it dies too fast because of hate issues (20 min activate timer mind you) and 3. the SMN still can provide some usefullness as /whm even without a pet 4. the SMN's pet has some powerfull AoE buffs (stoneskin-ra, phalanx-ra, magic defensup-ra, hastega, the different curagas etc.) so its quiet absolutly not the same at all, 5. you can not deactivate your pet just like that after every big hate action in a HNM battle due to activate timer while a SMN can just dismiss his.

I agree tough that if you make the master more powerfull you just ended up with a 2. DRG, thats why I said taht SE needs to buff up the pet.

Very simple, in fact. It's an old idea, not sure who's, but it was good.
Puppetmasters are supposed to be performers, give them JA debuffs based on acrobatics that the PT can capitalize on. Unique things, like Damage taken +, or Damage dealt -, or Resistance down.
This will improve the puppet's ability to deal damage or land it's own buff and the rest of the PT will have a new, unique debuffer that can also deal damage through his puppet.
A reverse COR.

a PUP can allready be a debuffer (stormwalker frame), the point is just its ineffective due to the fact of magic casting periods of the maton. Your maton will cast slow, until it starts casting blind the mob usualy will hit the 50% HP mark or so and on the next casting period the mob will be probably below 15% which will let the automaton just nuke. The main problem here is the casting period of the maton, its just to slow to let the maton bring on all debuffs from 100% healt of the mob till it reaches 80% of his health.

[LD]

...When I said it would be come a SMN, I meant in the sense that the puppet is the core of the job, and really, it shouldn't be.
The suggested theme of a PUP is that it fights WITH its puppet, not just acting like a BST who makes the mob do the grunt work.

Don't you understand that there are are least 3 other jobs that debuff a mob with spells, and more reliably?
Making your puppet do it faster or more accurately isn't going to replace a RDM.
The job needs something unquie, a niche, and some spells or new heads aren't going to provide that.

[Judai]

Wait what are we talking about, I thought this game only consisted of WAR NIN MNK BRD and RDM.

You sir are a liar. Blackmages get to fight anything thats at least 3 times my size ingame too.

I still don't get it. Where do you find these gargantuan colibri, and why would you wan to merit off of one?

Everything is gargantuan when you are a Taru!

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h1...Wings/taru.jpg
yaya I know he's not really Taru.

[safer]

dont forget they introduced an animator +1 (in a really odd way if you ask me)
this could address things like time it takes between casting spells / abilities etc ..
i dont really know much about the job, but maybe this item will be of some help

[LD]

I seriously doubt it.
It sure wont help it the 70 levels before you can use it.

I still believe the JA debuff idea is the best way to make PUP work.
Adding it at about 40 or 50 would be good, that's about the time the job begins to slip.

Maybe combo attacks, like the techs from CT.

[Jkun]

Reading this page, wishing the Acrobatic and JA debuff idea would come true, but knowing SE, it won't.

I cry deep down inside.

/emo.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Whatever happened to just leveling jobs you enjoy rather than leveling jobs that have OMGSECONDTIERMERITS

Because then you get stuck being a BLU and DRK

[DragonCloud64]

Optimization. It does a PUP good.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7548/ranged2tc2.png
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/4909/ranged1vk7.png

[Toth]

With 3 Optimization, Daze now does 540-670 damage on mobs weak to piercing (G.Colibris, Imps, etc) and ranged attacks go from 150-220. Combined with master weaponskills for 350-700 damage (depending on buffs, mobs, and criticals) and PUPs can do even more serious damage on merit mobs. My maton also now hit high defense mobs like Kirin and Cerberus for 30 a hit (more with extra fire manuevers) and gain TP significantly faster with Fine Tuning (300 damage/drain Cannibal Blade at a very respectable speed). PUP still isn't fixed but it certainly is getting better (and somewhat more useful).

[BRP]

How does your auto survive in merit parties doing damage like that?

[Sho]

With 3 Optimization, Daze now does 540-670 damage on mobs weak to piercing (G.Colibris, Imps, etc) and ranged attacks go from 150-220. Combined with master weaponskills for 350-700 damage (depending on buffs, mobs, and criticals) and PUPs can do even more serious damage on merit mobs. My maton also now hit high defense mobs like Kirin and Cerberus for 30 a hit (more with extra fire manuevers) and gain TP significantly faster with Fine Tuning (300 damage/drain Cannibal Blade at a very respectable speed). PUP still isn't fixed but it certainly is getting better (and somewhat more useful).

Wow. Happy to hear PUP is alot better now. 8)

[Ryko]

How does your auto survive in merit parties doing damage like that?

Probably by still not doing enough to outdo and pull hate off of the guy opening with a voke, maybe.