Salvage - Bhaflau Remnants - thread2

[Arthars]

for bhaflau yea you can support up to 18 people

but it just kills all your time that you can spend on doing more ramparts + boss thats all

only silversea seems decent with able to get cells for 10 people and still do 1 2 3 F NM + boss

arrapago definately not a 10-18 man thing, prolly u can just kill 1-3 NM and go for boss

zhalyom is zzzzz

[Arthars]

In Arrapago, it's just a mass killfest in each wing until you get what you need, and then port up. 40 minutes on 1F to nearly clear the floor is worth it when it makes the rest of the zone take so much less time. In a group of 12 though, you'll have at least 6 DD and a BLM or two. DD > BLM in Arrapago easily, I find

if i'm not wrong, spending more than 20 mins in 1F of arrapago will make the whole run seem hasty and unable to complete all NM + boss

i only go SE top corridor and NE's 3 brd + some bones for magic and HP and we warped

pray to god i dont meet a day all brd dont drop magic. i'll just use my fireflies

j/k

[Neosutra]

In Arrapago, it's just a mass killfest in each wing until you get what you need, and then port up. 40 minutes on 1F to nearly clear the floor is worth it when it makes the rest of the zone take so much less time. In a group of 12 though, you'll have at least 6 DD and a BLM or two. DD > BLM in Arrapago easily, I find

if i'm not wrong, spending more than 20 mins in 1F of arrapago will make the whole run seem hasty and unable to complete all NM + boss

i only go SE top corridor and NE's 3 brd + some bones for magic and HP and we warped

pray to god i dont meet a day all brd dont drop magic. i'll just use my fireflies

j/k

Had that happen before, not one magic drop on first floor besides the one from the chest. With a thf.

[Xerlic]

Yea, magic in Silver Sea for sure

Silver Seas is the only zone where I use the Socket. If we're going Dekka route, we've taken to saving the magic from the 3 magic dropped from Hammerblow's room. If we go Powderkeg route on the second floor, magic usually isn't an issue.

I feel that Bhaflau and Silver Seas were definitely geared towards larger alliances. I've been getting a lot more people wanting to come to my group since we've been having large success, and I have a policy of not really wanting to turn people away if they want to come. For instance, last night we had 16 people come to Silver Seas. Back when we started, we would have cells dropping to the floor unneeded in these zones.

Zhayolm and especially Arrapago are definitely not geared towards having larger groups, and my co-leader and I have been talking about splitting groups up into 2 smaller groups on days we plan to do these zones.

Overall, I think 9 is the perfect number to do any Salvage zone.

[divisortheory]

Meh, we finally got mad bomber to pop after like 3 weeks of no shows, and then no gate widows no bees either /sigh

[Francisco II]

Meh, we finally got mad bomber to pop after like 3 weeks of no shows

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...mad_bomber.jpg

[Wizerd]

In Arrapago, it's just a mass killfest in each wing until you get what you need, and then port up. 40 minutes on 1F to nearly clear the floor is worth it when it makes the rest of the zone take so much less time. In a group of 12 though, you'll have at least 6 DD and a BLM or two. DD > BLM in Arrapago easily, I find

if i'm not wrong, spending more than 20 mins in 1F of arrapago will make the whole run seem hasty and unable to complete all NM + boss

i only go SE top corridor and NE's 3 brd + some bones for magic and HP and we warped

pray to god i dont meet a day all brd dont drop magic. i'll just use my fireflies

j/k

Wrong. With a group of powerhouse DDs (WARs MNKs and a THF) you can maul down just about the entire first floor in 40 minutes. The same group of DDs rapes the rest of the run. If my group hadn't spent so much time on 5F clearing gears, we would have had time to do boss I think, provided I cut the floor short after we got all HP, weapons, heads, and belts we needed (happened about halfway through the Qutrubs and about 2/3 the way through the skeletons we killed).

It really cuts kill times on NMs down. 3F QQTH takes 10min tops clearing the rooms and killing, Psycheflayer takes 3min, QQTH 4F takes 2min, and Chariot takes about 2-3min, compared to, well, more on each NM. It's also much more fun to brute force everything down, than it is to sneak around to different things.

Keep in mind that you can obtain at least 1 of every cell except Body, SJ, Feet, and perhaps a Stat cell or two? disclusing the start chest. Once your melees start getting geared up with Heads and Belts, things start to go very fast. I've also noticed much better drop rates with larger (8-10) groups than with smaller (6-7) groups.

This whole cutting the first floor short is a stupid tactic, really. It limits the cells you can have by the end, and can make things take longer than they need to (potentially even make someone useless).

[Lhexh]

40 minutes seems like WAY too much time on the first floor. I agree its good to get as much as you can on the first floor, the vital cells, but there is no real point in spending more time than is neccessary killing both NE+SE wings because all those cells drop on later floors while you are plowing those mobs. The only thing I care about on 1st floor is weapons, outside of required magic for a healer+BRD, and JA from lamia along the way.

You are making it sound like people are taking a long time to kill NMs on later floors, but thats far from the truth. We spend 16-24 minutes on 1st floor ( except last run where we killed Sabotender trying the 6F theory ) with the path being clearing most of NW, half of SW ( if short weapons clear all of SW ) then clear SE and warp up. We do this with strict meleeburn, usually MNK MNK SAM WAR THF + support and QQs die fast, chariot dies in 60-90seconds, 6F is quick clear and boss dies with plenty of time to lot cells and bitch about lack of drops we got that run.

[Wizerd]

40 minutes seems like WAY too much time on the first floor. I agree its good to get as much as you can on the first floor, the vital cells, but there is no real point in spending more time than is neccessary killing both NE+SE wings because all those cells drop on later floors while you are plowing those mobs. The only thing I care about on 1st floor is weapons, outside of required magic for a healer+BRD, and JA from lamia along the way.

You are making it sound like people are taking a long time to kill NMs on later floors, but thats far from the truth. We spend 16-24 minutes on 1st floor ( except last run where we killed Sabotender trying the 6F theory ) with the path being clearing most of NW, half of SW ( if short weapons clear all of SW ) then clear SE and warp up. We do this with strict meleeburn, usually MNK MNK SAM WAR THF + support and QQs die fast, chariot dies in 60-90seconds, 6F is quick clear and boss dies with plenty of time to lot cells and bitch about lack of drops we got that run.

Well, realistically the only time we've taken a full 40 minutes was when we were trying to replicate the JP's run. We're usually around 30 minutes to get what we need, which is weapons for melees + BLM(s), head cells for tanks, HP for melee (mainly just tanks), and belts for MNKs. I don't like saving HP until later because there is only 12 more chances to get it from Skeletons and I like to avoid killing Ramparts normally, unless our THF still needs hand cell.

Also, your strict melee burn *is* a large group, anything more than 2-3 melees is, really. Really I was just trying to say that killing very few mobs on 1F and hoping you get what you need later is stupid, because it's all right there on the first floor where mobs take seconds to kill, as opposed to later where they do indeed have more HP and hit harder.

[Uzor]

40 minutes seems like WAY too much time on the first floor. I agree its good to get as much as you can on the first floor, the vital cells, but there is no real point in spending more time than is neccessary killing both NE+SE wings because all those cells drop on later floors while you are plowing those mobs. The only thing I care about on 1st floor is weapons, outside of required magic for a healer+BRD, and JA from lamia along the way.

You are making it sound like people are taking a long time to kill NMs on later floors, but thats far from the truth. We spend 16-24 minutes on 1st floor ( except last run where we killed Sabotender trying the 6F theory ) with the path being clearing most of NW, half of SW ( if short weapons clear all of SW ) then clear SE and warp up. We do this with strict meleeburn, usually MNK MNK SAM WAR THF + support and QQs die fast, chariot dies in 60-90seconds, 6F is quick clear and boss dies with plenty of time to lot cells and bitch about lack of drops we got that run.

Well, realistically the only time we've taken a full 40 minutes was when we were trying to replicate the JP's run. We're usually around 30 minutes to get what we need, which is weapons for melees + BLM(s), head cells for tanks, HP for melee (mainly just tanks), and belts for MNKs. I don't like saving HP until later because there is only 12 more chances to get it from Skeletons and I like to avoid killing Ramparts normally, unless our THF still needs hand cell.

Also, your strict melee burn *is* a large group, anything more than 2-3 melees is, really. Really I was just trying to say that killing very few mobs on 1F and hoping you get what you need later is stupid, because it's all right there on the first floor where mobs take seconds to kill, as opposed to later where they do indeed have more HP and hit harder.

That depends on WHAT you are after. The Qiqirns can drop 2 magic or weapon (although 1 is common, I've seen 2 drop). Magic and Ability can be obtained by huge amounts on 4th floor, weapons can easily be obtained at third floor, depending on the route you take. The only thing I really consider important to get at first floor in Arrapago is HP. But that, again, depends on the route you take. I'd still get HP for melees before zoning down, though.

[aurik]

We often spend 30-40 minutes on the first floor, and we always have time to kill everything and the boss. Time invested early is time invested wisely.

[Arthars]

everyone have diff way of doing things

as long everything is hunt down, its all fine

good job

anyway we are all here for the drops

not for the cells, doesnt matter if i spend 20 mins or you spend 40 mins

no diff end of day if you can hunt all down ^^

[Awpticle]

My group has killed LBC 2x now using the HM crippling method of kiling all 10 single gears on floor 4. My question to all of you is has anyone of you tried fighting with your tanks toe to toe with LBC? I remember reading a while back someone mentioned this idea but there was no follow up.

Does LBC only do HM and the laser(cue minime) if you're toe to toe?

[Grif]

He'll still use Discharge and Inertia Stream.

[Wizerd]

My group has killed LBC 2x now using the HM crippling method of kiling all 10 single gears on floor 4. My question to all of you is has anyone of you tried fighting with your tanks toe to toe with LBC? I remember reading a while back someone mentioned this idea but there was no follow up.

Does LBC only do HM and the laser(cue minime) if you're toe to toe?

I find he uses HM about twice as much as he uses Diffusion Ray, Inertia Stream, and Discharge, but that may just be good luck. We always fight him toe to toe when we weaken him because HM is weaker than the other moves and doesn't wipe shadows, AND has a large wind-up timer.

[Lhexh]

Also, your strict melee burn *is* a large group, anything more than 2-3 melees is, really.

I don't really want to continue this arrapago derail in this thread but I don't see how 5 melees+2-3 mages = large group. That's a total of 7 or 8 people which I would still consider a small man group. I guess this leads me into my question of why do some groups bring such massive amount of healers on runs, which is why I guess you assumed 5 melees = large group since that probably comes with 5+ mages for most people who post here. I keep seeing people always talk about bringing 2+ WHMs, on top of 2+ RDMs, on top of multiple BRDs( well these are always welcome ) and I just keep wondering if they really need this much healing?

Historically, we've only brought RDM+BRD or RDM+WHM+BRD for every single zone except SS when doing LAC runs. Our first few runs there we brought RDM+RDM+WHM+BRD just to get used to the fight but now we do it with just RDM+RDM+BRD and even RDM+BRD twice. I've always felt you were better off killing mobs faster than bringing extra curing to handle the longer fights, especially with gears/chariots/NMs. Even before the nerfing of Bhaf Boss was discovered we used to kill LBC with just a single RDM+BRD and a BLM/WHM as the only healing. [ Before anyone asks yes we have a Relic Horn, which helps, but all our LBC kills with RDM+BRD came before we got that and Sylphet was the RDM so we were using this system before relic just fine ]

[divisortheory]

I keep seeing people always talk about bringing 2+ WHMs, on top of 2+ RDMs, on top of multiple BRDs( well these are always welcome ) and I just keep wondering if they really need this much healing?

Historically, we've only brought RDM+BRD or RDM+WHM+BRD for every single zone except SS when doing LAC runs.

So you're doing Zhayolm boss consistently with 7 people and 0 stuns?

[aurik]

Done it easily with 6 and 0 stuns and 2 people with locked HP. Zhayolm boss is EASY

[divisortheory]

So what are you doing when he uses back to back Discoids (within a few seconds of each other)? He's done this practically every time I've fought him when his HP is below 10%.

[Lhexh]

Zhayolm boss is crazy easy. First time we fought it was 8 people and no stuns and was an easy win with just RDM+WHM+BRD. If he starts spamming Discoid then you just have your tanks disengage and rest up MP while holding it since it wont get any TP that way.

If it happens below 10%, thats what you saved Benediction for in the first place. I've never personally lost to this boss in 7 tries but we always make sure to farm HP until everyone is capped on 4F ( you can use wrong rampart on purpose to get a fresh set of mamools if short ) so that all 7-8 people can absorb discoid reducing the damage to 400ish which is very manageable.