Salvage - Bhaflau Remnants - thread2

[Mugekuge]

Some math fun to show for what I'm saying:

Ridill + Maneater
- 512 delay
- 309 delay after /NIN
- 172 delay after 58% haste (23% gear, 15% spell, 20% song)
- 1255 attack rounds in an hour
- Assuming 15% total DA, as ideal for Rid WAR, 30/50/20 balance of Ridill (according to others+Sea's tests), which after 15% DA becomes ~26/58/16
- 1443 axe + 2384 ridill
- Assuming 90% acc, 85 average/hit, 950 WS avg
- 3444 total hits
- 292740 melee damage
- Assuming avg of 18 hits to TP after WS
- 180 total WS, 171000 damage
- 463740 total damage

Perdu + Pole Strap
- 504 delay
- 161 delay after 58% haste and Hasso
- 1341 attack rounds in an hour
- Assuming 22% total DA, as ideal for GA WAR
- 1636 swings
- Assuming 95% acc, 185 average/hit, 1050 WS avg
- 1554 total hits
- 287490 melee damage
- Assuming avg of 5 hits to TP after WS
- 310 total WS, 325500 damage
- 612990 total damage

Obviously not numbers representative of most normal situations, but with both jobs at about almost full power GA does come out on top by a considerable amount.

Feel free to double check the math or try your own run through, I could've made a mistake as GA seems a little over-exaggerated, but meh /lazy. I can't find anything wrong.

I didn't include the math for Zanshin or crit-rate either, and I also don't feel a Rid WAR/NIN would average 85 damage/hit with 90% acc/23% haste in like any situation without at least Madrigal (which is the least ideal song to have to use). So I think my assumptions are mostly in favor of the WAR/NIN build as well.


Also, a friend's parse from not too long ago on fully-nerfed LBC (I'm not in it though):
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7551/ffxi4097mr1.jpg

SAM is brown, MNK is orange, Bravura WAR is red. The SAM and MNK both used 2h twice, the WAR used it once. All had SV for the entire fight. Over the course of the entire run and not including the above boss fight, the WAR did 230% of the MNK's damage.

Of course this is with Bravura, but the difference between wielding that and Perdu isn't enough to account for the sole reason those number potentials are that high. The MNK and SAM were both above average, but not completely decked. Both have most of the merits and gear for a well-equipped job (black belt, destroyers, byakkos, shura, 6-hit, hagun, etc) and are a few pieces short of "decked."

In the end, removing Bravura and adding a completely decked MNK, GA WAR still should come out a good amount ahead as far as damage goes (but of course it'd be closer). But there are a lot of screwy factors in comparing specifics here depending on who gets what cells first and such, so take the results as you will lol.

This isn't at all to discredit MNK in salvage in any way though, MNK offers more than just hard damage for a salvage run and is why it's one of the best jobs to have on most teams. I just think that many people don't see how good GA WAR can be still, which is understandable as so few do it right now anyway with it being the more 'walmart' oriented option. But that's my extremely long-winded 2 cents!

This is parse of a merit party i had 1 month ago.

Lyko sam/war 6 hit build, hagun.
Xno drk/sam Relic Scythe.
Me war/nin with Perdu Voulge, 22% haste, fortitude torque, i could have gone /sam
brd/cor chaos roll
brd/nin

http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dgdr6nsq_4d9h82mfb

As you see my avg hit was 194.6 and my ws 950.4, i wish i could get 1k avg but don't see how atm.

[Max™]

As you see my avg hit was 194.6 and my ws 950.4, i wish i could get 1k avg but don't see how atm.

Post your WS gear Str/Dex balance, Sea Gorget > Fort torque for RR, and Rampager is the best thing for RR average, I swear by mine.

Had a crap 1 Brd party with some friends, ran out of food early as hell cause I misheard and had mamool food, averaged 894 WS with Min/March. Something like 17% Crit, but I was also toying around with Byakko's off and on at the start comparing my WS dmg (it sucked, and I can tell it lowered my average) vs Rampager.

Min/Min + Food, I'd be pissed as hell if I didn't average 1k+ with this axe.

After looking over that parse, I'm REALLY interested in knowing your WS gear, I'll post my setups for comparison, should be especially apt as we're both 'ru's.

War/Sam, Seigan most of the party since it was Pawis and myself doing 65% out of 4 DD's.

5/5 Str, 4/4 Crit, 8/8 Gaxe, Cat 1 capped, WC capped/used every 10 mins.

Rampager / Pole / _ / Bomb Core
Unicorn Cap / Snow Gorget / Brutal Earring / lolHollow Earring
Osode / Nhands / Flame / Rajas
Forager's / Warwolf / Haidate / Nfeet

I have a high/low hp setup since the Uni cap str goes at 75% hp, swaps in relic mask/nbody, and I'm currently selling the osode, and will be using Berk +1 there, but I did the above mentioned parse with Osode in WS build to test it out.

71 +45 Str w/Osode/Uni > 43 Relic/Nbody
68 +44 Str w/Osode/Uni > 39 Relic/Nbody

[Mugekuge]

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/789/warwsdg4.png

3 str merits, 4/4 critical, 8/8 g.axe, 3/3 aggressor/berserk, 4/4 DA, i sold hq hauberk to fund my morrigan robe, so i am not sure now if heca. body or nq hauby would be better for ws, sometimes i use adaman celata for ws, i have wonder if unicorn cap would be better, i see you have more str equip in ws than me, i have snow gorget but i thought for multi hits ws fort. torque would be better.

[Max™]

I got the Uni cap cause it looks sharp, and figured I may as well put it to some use, why I macro it in/out depending on HP.

Recent testing showed that sea gorgets apply their accuracy to all hits, and for Raging Rush it adds a unique boost to the first hit, up to 40-50 Dmg... which doesn't sound like much, but what other piece will do that?

I suspect that the large portion of my WS consistency comes from the Rampager, and compared with your gear, I'm still convinced that it is.

I wouldn't swap the Nbody in because of the Dex you'd lose, that's why I keep the lolrelic mask around, it gets strange looks and dismissed, but between gorget acc, 68+40~ Dex, the other random acc in my various gear sets, I'm comfortable trading 6 or so acc for 5 more Dex to push up around that 110-120 range.

[Mugekuge]

Oh forgot to add, i ate a kabob for that pic, i tried a dex build for ws once, i think i had +118 dex but didnt like ws damage when i tried that, meh i guess i will use some seals and get a rampager for test and see how it works, but wonder if increase on ws damage and lose on dot with rampager compared to perdu would be better.

[Max™]

More Crits, better average return per 100% TP vs Higher max hit/crit/WS damage, but a bit more fluctuation.

I still haven't gotten much luck at getting closer to Perdu to directly parse them, but I notice the difference any time I swap to Byakko's.

Besides the flat 6% Crit drop, going from say, 750ish on a no-critter, to 1700 on a full hit crit, then back down to an 880 single crit, compared to 850, 1565, 950, 1250, 910, 1100 all day long.*

*Note: Those are not direct numbers, just an example of how randomly my Byakko's RR's jump up and down, and how exaggerated it feels after getting used too the Rampager cranking em out consistently.


Edit: I wonder how workable the math would be for that, comparing the added Crit %, it's effect on WS damage/average, versus the higher base damage, like the man/rid vs bravura one up the page.

[Jackalman]

I meant to post this a few days ago, but I just have to "brag" about my horrible luck. We did an LBC run the other day, and MB was up, so we did 1F rampart. The 2nd or 3rd pop was a widow, so we knew we'd be sticking it out. We had a total of 8 widows pop, and didn't get a single drop!

Ugh. I'm about 0/465498375645 on Enlil's Brayettes, and the ls has seen 3 total in over 300 runs.

[Hyan]

I meant to post this a few days ago, but I just have to "brag" about my horrible luck. We did an LBC run the other day, and MB was up, so we did 1F rampart. The 2nd or 3rd pop was a widow, so we knew we'd be sticking it out. We had a total of 8 widows pop, and didn't get a single drop!

Ugh. I'm about 0/465498375645 on Enlil's Brayettes, and the ls has seen 3 total in over 300 runs.

40 Skirmish Perphedos, 4000+ NQ bees: 1 Hikazu sune-ate. 6 Freya's masks. Guess if I need that hikazu, lulz. Also 30 Gate Widow's, 2800 NQ chigoes: 2 Morrigan gloves. and last week our first Marduk legs. Bhaflau loves us!

[Zhais]

I meant to post this a few days ago, but I just have to "brag" about my horrible luck. We did an LBC run the other day, and MB was up, so we did 1F rampart. The 2nd or 3rd pop was a widow, so we knew we'd be sticking it out. We had a total of 8 widows pop, and didn't get a single drop!

Ugh. I'm about 0/465498375645 on Enlil's Brayettes, and the ls has seen 3 total in over 300 runs.

40 Skirmish Perphedos, 4000+ NQ bees: 1 Hikazu sune-ate. 6 Freya's masks. Guess if I need that hikazu, lulz. Also 30 Gate Widow's, 2800 NQ chigoes: 2 Morrigan gloves. and last week our first Marduk legs. Bhaflau loves us!

trade you morrigan gloves for marduk legs

Got my group's second marduk legs a few nights ago. First thing out of the rampart was a gate widow that dropped 'em, and they were basically junked. I'm the only one that wants marduk, and I already have the legs fully upgraded lol -.- Have 4 people that would love the gloves however.

[Zhais]

wind weather is the bane of my existence... Second time in a row -.-;;;


edit: ok, talk about a double kick in the nuts. Wind weather for a good portion of the time, decided to say fuck it and try to pull. Sight aggro'd from way out in the hallway, warped two of them. Not a second later ,wind weather dies down. I go afk and hit things while people zone up.

So, we kill unnerfed LBC in 10~15 minutes after eating 3 homing missiles. After such a fight, I looked at the loot pool expectantly to see: Ares body and mask, to which noone at all wants..... so scrapped to a newer member -.-;

[Judai]

Yea, Wind weather is complete and utter bullshit.. I wasn't there but one time weather popped as my group ran around the Chariot room, they ended up instantly aggroing everything and wiping in the middle of the room, lol. Not too mention Gear pathing is completely fucking stupid and even worse when it's wind weather.

[Kaylia]

Pulling gears fucking suck. Bad pathing and weather can fuck you up way too easily. It's not hard if you are really careful, but it's still ridiculous. If it was on the 2nd floor, you could plan the rest of your run accordingly, but failling on the pull usually mean you have 30min left (if you planned to fight rampart), or not enough time to kill mega (if you were counting on the nerf to zerg it).

[BlackMoomba]

Wind weather raped us last night, first pull linked all 3 gears in first room. So we said screw it. Killed Chariot, and went to LBC. Was our first real attempt at LBC not nerfed. Timed out at 3% :/, so lame. (Our other mnk came /war to by accident, so we had our back up Pld/shoulda been nin but came war instead, tank instead). Oh well.














WIND WEATHER SUCKS BALLS!

[Shassira]

This is probably somewhere in the thread but anyway... messing around with gears on a 4 man rampart farm day after everything was done, i went to check out the actual aggro range of these things with wind and distance thing on. Aparently it's something like 14', which is horrible for those little rooms and that oh god so shitty pathing the little bastards do. Without wind their aggro range is 4' i believe. I have to say this is probably my most hated thing to do in salvage >_>

Nerfing the boss under this condition sounds fair to me, but this being a rampart pop condition has to be the worst decision ever made in salvage. After silver sea drop rate.

[Kaylia]

At least Silversea is sorta fun. You can clear the whole zone, and there is still some challenging stuff. Bhaflau is a yawn fest no matter what.

[Funkworkz]

i.hate.wind.weather

ported up and it appeared probably 5 seconds after. pulled one gear from the first room resulting in the other two linking from a fuckilometer away, resulting in warp. immediatly after killing the pulled gear the weather disappeared -_-

i swear it intentionally changes weather

[Slott]

In my experience pulling in weather, it's mainly their sight based aggro range that increases via weather. As long as they aren't facing each other (Rather, a gear isn't facing the one you're pulling), it's not too bad to get a single... this is opposed to their sound based linking, which gets just a little bigger, and isn't too problematic even in weather.

[RKenshin]

Off-topic, but just to continue a little further with the discussion on the previous page.

Some math fun to show for what I'm saying:

This is parse of a merit party i had 1 month ago.

Lyko sam/war 6 hit build, hagun.
Xno drk/sam Relic Scythe.
Me war/nin with Perdu Voulge, 22% haste, fortitude torque, i could have gone /sam
brd/cor chaos roll
brd/nin

http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dgdr6nsq_4d9h82mfb

As you see my avg hit was 194.6 and my ws 950.4, i wish i could get 1k avg but don't see how atm.

This is the result of a recent PT on WAR/SAM, against two rather well equipped and merited DDs:
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/8127/pparsess8.jpg

Orange is a MNK/NIN (destroyers+shura+BB+haidate+h2hmerit+etc) and red is SAM/WAR (haub+1 + hachi+1 + 6-hit + GK merits + etc). Both were aggressive players. PT'd at Mamool camp with Marchx2 + Minuetx2, accuracy is rather distorted from what felt like an abnormal amount of flashgas, as in the first 20m we all had closer to 88% acc (my WS average was also almost 1.4k then ).

But, yeah, point being the melee and WS averages I mentioned earlier weren't far off from what to expect with a high end WAR/SAM. Although, in hindsight the melee average in my original calculations should've been about 25 damage/hit higher.

[Mugekuge]

Can i see your ws gear plz and which food were you using?, nice numbers there.

[RKenshin]

IIRC I had wabbit pie on for part of the start (I think first 30m or so), and red curry afterwards.

My WS gear could use some tweaking and improvements, I'm not quite satisfied with it yet. It looks like this:

Main: Perdu
Sub: Pole Strap
Ammo: Fire Bomblet
Head: Heca Cap
Neck: Fortitude Torque
Ear1: Brutal
Ear2: Assault
Body: Adaman Hauberk
Hands: Adaman Mufflers
Ring1: Rajas
Ring2: Mars's
Back: Cerb+1
Waist: Warrior's Stone
Legs: Byakko's Haidate
Feet: Heca

I'd ideally prefer Ares hands/legs/feet in there, and with the extra acc from those pieces I'd probably switch to Warwolf as well. I haven't put much thought into what I'd do yet though, me getting anymore Ares at all is rather far off, much less getting all three of those pieces.