Salvage - Silver Sea Remnants - thread 2

[Uzor]

Def down debuff and drown are too risky for that, especially when we only have 1 magic cells.

We always kill 5 fomors, then move to the big room and make them lose aggro. The thief can generally come back by the time the first 2 dies. After that, we pick them one by one

Like I said. you need a few cells to make it work. Mainly HP, 2 magic, ability, and most armor cells. With 2 erasers it generally isn't a problem.

[Cream Soda]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but we just started using a new way to pull CC on the 4th floor.

We have the thf sack and we grab 2 ramparts
http://i40.tinypic.com/2yngk0i.jpg
We fight on the in the corner on the red square and sleep the 2nd rampart.

We have 1 person willing to sack (we used whm cause of rr3) the gear train. For some reason when the gear train aggro's someone, they just keep going for 5-10 secs in their path before being able to aggro anyone again. So then the whm gets up, RR3 and always stands to where he'd be the first to aggro the train, making it where we don't have to worry about them, kill them, or even pull the ramparts back to the porter room. After the first 2 ramparts, we do the other 2. Works the same with CC as well can fight him right there.

[FailureMidgard]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but we just started using a new way to pull CC on the 4th floor.

We have the thf sack and we grab 2 ramparts
http://i40.tinypic.com/2yngk0i.jpg
We fight on the in the corner on the red square and sleep the 2nd rampart.

We have 1 person willing to sack (we used whm cause of rr3) the gear train. For some reason when the gear train aggro's someone, they just keep going for 5-10 secs in their path before being able to aggro anyone again. So then the whm gets up, RR3 and always stands to where he'd be the first to aggro the train, making it where we don't have to worry about them, kill them, or even pull the ramparts back to the porter room. After the first 2 ramparts, we do the other 2. Works the same with CC as well can fight him right there.

You realize you can fight there without the sac, as long as people are all piled in the corner, and don't cast as the gear train goes by?

[mdkuser]

the train will links with slept ramprts..

[Gaea]

This is a neat way to save time if you want to add boss to the run, or if you are doing an extreme low-man (3-4 players) and trying to skip a lot of things. However, a party of 6-8 should be able to unlock and do 1234 or 2 3n 3e 4 or even 1 2 3n 3e 4 without having to do two separate rampart sacks.

Our group just pulls all 4 into the starter room, and then goes and fetches Citadel. We've killed the chariot and ported up to boss but we can't seem to kill the Chariot with more than 10 minutes remaining and wind up timing out on LAC.

Maybe if we had a good day, good cell drops, and skipped GG3, we could do boss, but we really don't need anything off LAC at the moment so it hasn't been an issue.

I'm aware some groups have pulled off 4+ NMs plus boss. We just haven't yet. I'm sure we will, eventually. I hope so as it's quite a defining moment for a Salvage group.

[Killkenny]

It seems like it could be a good method for a low man run with a dual boxed char who can just sacrifice without slowing the rest down. Apart from that I don't really see how you're saving any time because the time it takes to pull 4 ramparts back to the porter room isn't going to be much/any slower than having to sack the room an additional time.

Either your thf can make his way back to porter room and assist on ramparts once unweak or he can wait and pull CC to corner of room and keep it busy while everyone else runs up.

Only other plus side I can really see to this is it requires you to not be aware of where the gear train is but any group thats done it more than a couple of times should be able to predict when its likely to be coming.

As for fighting CC himself you don't need to sack at all, just pull it into the first north room from where he pops and fight in corner.

[pchan]

I'm aware some groups have pulled off 4+ NMs plus boss. We just haven't yet. I'm sure we will, eventually. I hope so as it's quite a defining moment for a Salvage group.

I think my group never did 10 consecutive SS runs with same method for either CC or Hammerblow. If you are afraid of getting all 4+chariot, pull 2+chariot, and when you see the train in the starting room, send your thf + a claimer grab the last 2. Generally, when the train is at start, we've killed like 1 door + chariot at best. So you don't lose that much time.

[Suiram]

Like I said. you need a few cells to make it work. Mainly HP, 2 magic, ability, and most armor cells. With 2 erasers it generally isn't a problem.

We'd never tried that because I was always under the assumption that the MNK needed to use arhats+1, earth staff, etc to make it viable, and we had gotten 3 pulls of two down to an art where there was hardly any downtime. But tonight just for fun since you made it sound easier, we gave it a shot, and it does work really well (and obviously faster). RDM and BRD had SJ and MP, MNK was unlocked for HP, and fully unlocked for gear but no physical damage -% except for BB. But still with pro4 and phalanx2 he only dropped into orange HP once and I think that was after a RDM nuked him. Will probably do it this way from now on, and I recommend anyone give a shot if they have the unlocks (we did both two inner rooms since we were going Dekka path, not sure if it's worth the extra advance farming going Powderkeg path with a single party, unless you get lucky with HP/magic/SJ).

[mdkuser]

You don't really need all that dmg- gear. What matters is at least 1 HP, a few SJ for erase ( brd and rdm), rdm+whm having magic at minimum, main monk having almost all armors to kill fast. The main issue is of course to have 2 magic 1 HP 2-3 SJ by then. With phalanx2 and protect V, they hit for 20-30 I think. If BRD gets magic by then I do paeons to help.

That said, I hate doing the supertanking and prefer a mixed method: sac pull two first ( or use kite method, same principle) to get magic HP or SJ, whatever is needed, then supertank the 4 remaining.

[Sai]

You don't really need all that dmg- gear. What matters is at least 1 HP, a few SJ for erase ( brd and rdm), rdm+whm having magic at minimum, main monk having almost all armors to kill fast. The main issue is of course to have 2 magic 1 HP 2-3 SJ by then. With phalanx2 and protect V, they hit for 20-30 I think. If BRD gets magic by then I do paeons to help.

We've done this with 1 healer before, and without HP on the MNK unlocked. It's a bit riskier, but it's quite doable (Granted, our RDM does have 5/5 Phalanx2 and we have our brd do Minne instead of Paeon). If you're trying to do a full run, you won't always have the luxury of farming cells to super tank the Hammer room. We always just clear the first 2 rooms, then roll directly to Hammer after that - regardless of what cells dropped.

[Uzor]

Yeah, we usually clear the first 2 rooms as well, and decide how to handle the pull depending on what cells drop. While it certainly is possible to do it with less cells (read: 1 magic etc.), it is riskier, and I don't want to risk a potential wipe to clear the room a bit faster.

[Suiram]

You don't really need all that dmg- gear. What matters is at least 1 HP, a few SJ for erase ( brd and rdm), rdm+whm having magic at minimum, main monk having almost all armors to kill fast. The main issue is of course to have 2 magic 1 HP 2-3 SJ by then. With phalanx2 and protect V, they hit for 20-30 I think. If BRD gets magic by then I do paeons to help.

That said, I hate doing the supertanking and prefer a mixed method: sac pull two first ( or use kite method, same principle) to get magic HP or SJ, whatever is needed, then supertank the 4 remaining.

Yeah sorry if I wasn't clear, I was saying that while I had heard of people doing it before, until the recent discussion in the last two pages I thought that they needed all that -dmg armor. But we did it with only the -dmg from BB and it worked fine, in case other people have been avoiding it for the same reason. Mixed pull sounds like a good plan if you're going Powderkeg path and don't get good cells from the first couple mobs, so you don't have to do any extra farming.

[Kaylia]

Our group doesnt have erase, so it's a big no just because of def down. However, I still don't see where you save time doing this, unless you get pretty damn lucky on cells. Your thief will be gone for 60sec, but the rdm can probably nuke with the mp he saved to make up for it.

Any time you gain doing this will be lost farming additional cells probably.

[pchan]

Our group doesnt have erase, so it's a big no just because of def down. However, I still don't see where you save time doing this, unless you get pretty damn lucky on cells. .

I've never found a method greatly superior time wise on 1F anyway, assuming you do like us and clear the first 2 rooms only. Double sac, single sac + supertank, supertank all, THF kiting. You are totally dependent on the # of abilities, magics that dropped. When we're lucky on cells it's 18 min, when we're unlucky it's up to 23 min. Supetank would be the best if you could afford march+minuet, range, 2-3 abilities, 3+ magic, 1HP, 1-2 MP. Good luck getting that out of 7 fomors+chest. Also generally, your mages have to rest their full MP pool before the supertank pull which means a few minutes wasted.

[Kaylia]

This floor is 17min for us with 6. Best we can do is ~14min with 7 and angon

We Kill first 5 fomors -> Loot chest for RR-> Thief aggro and we pull 2 off him (Depending of the cells we have, we kill mnk or cor first.). Thief come back using silent oil, and if he is hurts, he can uses med from the chest

After that, I pull them in set of 1 to 3 and super tank them (usually not so bad at this point since everyone have magic, ja).

[Yabby]

my group normally run with with what many would say was too many members. Normally we have 10~ members. Now a lot of people seem to think that you have to go fast fast on the 1st floor, only grab the 1st two rooms otw to hammerblow, but my shell does it differently.

My group farms all 4 rooms around the area before going to hammerblow. We take a lot of extra time gearing up our members on the 1st floor of most zones and make up for it during the travel up. As for hammerblow and the shades, we normally have our mnk fully geared with HP supertank it without any problems. Doesn't use counterstance, keeps Phalanx II on him and Pro 4 and he normally takes little to no damage at all.

As for doing X amont of NM's and boss. We normally hit hammer,dekka,single gear gyroscopi (thf hands)c, triple gyro (Drk legs that never drop... ever), turtle, and the boss. Sometimes we have 5 mins left, once we had 13 mins. We only use one main mnk for the tanking, two sams, and an apoc drk for our crew. The sams save us so much time on the gears (We used to cut it close every time). Hitting 5 NM's and boss isn't very hard. As for the ramparts and turtle. We have our thf PD, flee and pull all 4 back to kill. If you time it right the thf can outrun the middle and the train and live to lot the chest for the fanatic drink for the second pull. On the second pass she would pull the chariot and the turtle while i (Brd) go to stand by the door (Like to keep the TH4 on turtle even tho we have never... ever... seen a drop).

[Aurania]

my group normally run with with what many would say was too many members. Normally we have 10~ members. Now a lot of people seem to think that you have to go fast fast on the 1st floor, only grab the 1st two rooms otw to hammerblow, but my shell does it differently.

My group farms all 4 rooms around the area before going to hammerblow. We take a lot of extra time gearing up our members on the 1st floor of most zones and make up for it during the travel up. As for hammerblow and the shades, we normally have our mnk fully geared with HP supertank it without any problems. Doesn't use counterstance, keeps Phalanx II on him and Pro 4 and he normally takes little to no damage at all.

As for doing X amont of NM's and boss. We normally hit hammer,dekka,single gear gyroscopi (thf hands)c, triple gyro (Drk legs that never drop... ever), turtle, and the boss. Sometimes we have 5 mins left, once we had 13 mins. We only use one main mnk for the tanking, two sams, and an apoc drk for our crew. The sams save us so much time on the gears (We used to cut it close every time). Hitting 5 NM's and boss isn't very hard. As for the ramparts and turtle. We have our thf PD, flee and pull all 4 back to kill. If you time it right the thf can outrun the middle and the train and live to lot the chest for the fanatic drink for the second pull. On the second pass she would pull the chariot and the turtle while i (Brd) go to stand by the door (Like to keep the TH4 on turtle even tho we have never... ever... seen a drop).

Just to add to what Yabai said, the two sams are actually a new thing. We used to have two mnk tanks, only one sam, and I didn't always have the apoc and we still routinely cleared all the NMs plus the boss.

What I don't understand is the idea that in every zone, you must rush through the first floor to ensure you have time for the NMs. We used to have a couple members who insisted, based on their experiences in a former shell, that you could only spend, for instance, ten minutes on the first Zhaylohm floor. We spend 30 minutes on that floor, clear all frogs/chariots (cept floor 4, waste of time), and the boss.

We do it in SSR as well. It takes us roughly 20 minutes or so to clear the entire first floor, including hammerblow. I guess we figure by gearing up as much as possible on the first floor, it saves us a LOT of time on the upper floors, where we kill much faster, have zero downtime, and can effectively zerg past every floor til we hit the boss. When we switched to a method of gearing people up, our salvage runs went infinitely smoother, faster, and we accomplished a lot more. And yes, we do run with between 8-12 on any given occasion (8 on the low, 12 high, usually have 10 or 11).

This floor is 17min for us with 6. Best we can do is ~14min with 7 and angon

We Kill first 5 fomors -> Loot chest for RR-> Thief aggro and we pull 2 off him (Depending of the cells we have, we kill mnk or cor first.). Thief come back using silent oil, and if he is hurts, he can uses med from the chest

After that, I pull them in set of 1 to 3 and super tank them (usually not so bad at this point since everyone have magic, ja).

Can I ask what your setup is? It's frequent that we hit Hammerblow with only one healer, either a WHM or a subjobless RDM depending on Yabai's mood that day. Our second magic always goes to our main party brd. Our whm, usually without max MP for most of the first floor, doesn't bother with erase, since it's a huge MP suck with low MP. Our main mnk supertanks all 6 fomors, regardless of whether he has max HP or not. If he is lucky, the rdm has magic unlocked and thus, he has phalanx II. The rest of us pick off the fomors one by one.

We have never wiped doing this and taking the time to farm the extra two rooms and gear up our members, while it might cost us up to 5-10 minutes on the first floor, speeds us up not just on killing the 6 fomors, but killing hammerblow, dekka, and the subsequent floors.

I'm just curious about your setup. Have you ever tried farming out the extra two rooms to see if your party/alliance would perform better that way?

[Valyana]

If you're going Dekka route, farming the whole 1F makes sense. If you're going Powderkeg, you'll get all the cells you can stand clearing that room, so you don't need to farm as much on 1F.

[Yabby]

thats true, but if your sacking the hammerblow instead of supertanking because of lack of cells, your really not wasting any time by farming the other rooms. But the main reason we were talking about it was because people saying it was hard to do 4 NM's + boss. if you are farming powderkeg have those extra cells at the start will speed up the 1st 25% of kills also. Ether way i see you point, just don't get why its hard to hit all the NM's and the boss.

[FailureMidgard]

How much time does supertanking this even save? It seems to me we're talking about 30 seconds or something.