Salvage - Silver Sea Remnants - thread 2

[NynJa]

thief is still the best damn DD in the game on anything that isnt burned through 2hr's, so why not bring em ?

[aurik]

thief is still the best damn DD in the game on anything that isnt burned through 2hr's, so why not bring em ?

1) lol?
2) I never said don't bring thf, I said TH has no effect on boss drops.

[NynJa]

Sorry, I retract that statement. An intelligent Mandau Thief is the best DD on anything that isnt 2hr burned.


A part of me fails to believe without proof that certain drops have a common/rare factor involved. We know nothing about how TH is calculated or formulated. Can you honestly prove to me that each drop from a boss has a 16.6~ chance of dropping ? Is it not viable to believe that SE made the shittier pieces (and they know damn well that some pieces are flat out utter shit) drop with higher probability at lesser drop rolls ?

[Kaylia]

*on weak to piercing mobs.

[aurik]

Sorry, I retract that statement. An intelligent Mandau Thief is the best DD on anything that isnt 2hr burned.


A part of me fails to believe without proof that certain drops have a common/rare factor involved. We know nothing about how TH is calculated or formulated. Can you honestly prove to me that each drop from a boss has a 16.6~ chance of dropping ? Is it not viable to believe that SE made the shittier pieces (and they know damn well that some pieces are flat out utter shit) drop with higher probability at lesser drop rolls ?

1) Don't make stupid claims like that, it'll only lead to unnecessary derail.

2) As for guaranteed drop slots and "common vs rare". Even if you knew for a fact that TH had an effect on "pick one" distributions, it would take a shitton of data to prove that TH is helping you get the pieces you want instead of the pieces you don't want. At that point, you're pretty much intentionally gimping yourself on pure faith by offhanding TK instead of blau or another good dagger.

[Wizerd]

Sorry, I retract that statement. An intelligent Mandau Thief is the best DD on anything that isnt 2hr burned.


A part of me fails to believe without proof that certain drops have a common/rare factor involved. We know nothing about how TH is calculated or formulated. Can you honestly prove to me that each drop from a boss has a 16.6~ chance of dropping ? Is it not viable to believe that SE made the shittier pieces (and they know damn well that some pieces are flat out utter shit) drop with higher probability at lesser drop rolls ?

It's possible, but it's not likely that TH would change those frequencies at all, which I believe is what was suggested earlier. I personally doubt they have different frequencies per drop, and yes I'd say there is a 14.2857~% chance of your piece dropping from LBC in a specific slot, and 16.666% from the bosses that drop 6 pieces instead of 7.

[NynJa]

*on weak to piercing mobs.

Jone 11 JoL's from my LS
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4038/jolow8.jpg
Xno + Zayin = Drk (whose job was to get in, souleater w/ kraken, mpk the alliance by drawing hate and getting everyone hit w/ TP attacks or suicide to boosted yovra melee attacks (which fuck with my stolen boosts since they cant stack if it truly works like that, then gtfo)
Jayy = rng
Aoshiz = relic drg
Drini = sam
Nagz = blm
Evett = rng (I think)


May 14 JoL #2

Nynja  thf  30094 
Briste  mnk/notnin  23210 
Prophecy rng?  22742 
Zodduska rng?  22224 
Drini  sam  21517 
Zayin  drk/sam nokraken 17398 
Leviathan   13349 
Nagzuul blm  9876 
Garuda   5702 
Flux blu  4011 
Diabolos   2327 
Titan   386 
Fenrir   383 
Ramuh   355 
Ifrit   288 
Shiva   212

I guess JoL must be weak to piercing then, right ?

[aurik]

Take it elsewhere.

[NynJa]

At that point, you're pretty much intentionally gimping yourself on pure faith by offhanding TK instead of blau or another good dagger.

See my post on Page 3.
1-It would be foolish to constantly melee a boss, due to the extra TP it would accumulate
2-who said anything about offhanding it from 100-0% ? Swap it out at 5% or so.

[aurik]

At that point, you're pretty much intentionally gimping yourself on pure faith by offhanding TK instead of blau or another good dagger.

See my post on Page 3.
1-It would be foolish to constantly melee a boss, due to the extra TP it would accumulate
2-who said anything about offhanding it from 100-0% ? Swap it out at 5% or so.

So you're gimping yourself intentionally 5%->kill (and on the faith that TH isn't some cumulative effect and only applies when the monster dies!).

Same difference. I prefer bringing DDs that believe in maximizing their potential 100% of the time.

[NynJa]

now you're clutching at straws buddy...

Swapping BD out to Thief Knife for the last 5% is not going to shave 5 minutes off a fight. In fact, since the thief should be doing what I said on Page 3 (maybe sneaking in an extra attack if Brutal kicked in and they're at 95%), Its not like the extra accuracy from BD will matter at all, and the attack+14 is next to negligible.


And thanks for proving my point as to how little we know about the mechanics of Treasure Hunter, with your comment about cumulative status.

[aurik]

now you're clutching at straws buddy...

Swapping BD out to Thief Knife for the last 5% is not going to shave 5 minutes off a fight. In fact, since the thief should be doing what I said on Page 3 (maybe sneaking in an extra attack if Brutal kicked in and they're at 95%), Its not like the extra accuracy from BD will matter at all, and the attack+14 is next to negligible.


And thanks for proving my point as to how little we know about the mechanics of Treasure Hunter, with your comment about cumulative status.

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said anything about "5 minutes shaved off a fight". The only things that we know for sure is that thf does less damage when using TK instead of a better dagger, and that if TH has an effect on the frequency distribution of drops, it's as likely to harm as help. Therefore, fuck TH for bosses.

IMO, best thing a thf can do is eat some sushi and spam acid bolts to build TP / apply def down effect, then TA mercy for free damage.

[NynJa]

IMO, best thing a thf can do is eat some sushi and spam acid bolts to build TP / apply def down effect, then TA mercy for free damage.

I've tried that with gun, with ranger sub to boot (free 22 racc) and whatever I could muster in racc gear (was arrapago, I think I was sporting akinji peti, dual merman ring, pahluwan pants, homam ft, so 6+10+10+4+6, and 9 from coffinmaker), my racc was horrible. Unless sharpshot was up, all I did was miss.

[aurik]

IMO, best thing a thf can do is eat some sushi and spam acid bolts to build TP / apply def down effect, then TA mercy for free damage.

I've tried that with gun, with ranger sub to boot (free 22 racc) and whatever I could muster in racc gear (was arrapago, I think I was sporting akinji peti, dual merman ring, pahluwan pants, homam ft, so 6+10+10+4+6, and 9 from coffinmaker), my racc was horrible. Unless sharpshot was up, all I did was miss.

Don't guns suffer an accuracy penalty when used from anywhere but point blank?

[NynJa]

To be honest, I don't know. You'd be better off asking a ranger.

[aurik]

I say this because your mentioning of sharpshot... According to lolwiki, "as of the April 18th 2006 Update, the distance-accuracy modifier on ranged attacks is removed while this trait is active." Maybe your accuracy was poor because of the range you were standing at. Crossbow sweetspot is somewhere around 8-12' (ie, enough to get out of range of AoE TP moves) versus Gun's nearly-melee sweetspot.

I know I've seen Wafik land and proc defense down on chariots several times, and the impact of def.down is extremely noticeable. IMO it makes thf one of the most valuable utility players on a salvage team:
* TH where it matters
* excellent DD
* one of the best jobs to pull with. flee and the relatively-easy-to-get skadi boots allow them to outrun and deaggro unwanted links
* perfect dodge for tricky sacpulls
* acid bolts, bloody bolts
* hate- and nearly-TP-free damage on the boss through TAWS (use a monarch drink for even more free TP)

[NynJa]

I'll check into sweetspots for guns then. Myabe certain bosses exhibit certain traits (I believe you did say LBC is the only one who triples)?

[aurik]

LBC definitely triples. I've got the screenshots to prove it lol. I guess it could be zanshin if you can zanshin a counter...can you? LBC usually gets 1-3 triples per fight. If it's actually a zanshin trigger, maybe LBC is classified as a Samurai? (Which would explain the reported automeditate at low TP, which some other chariots definitely don't have)

I haven't seen the other bosses triple, and I've fought them plenty.

edit: I have never been fully connected on a triple attack--I have always countered or blinked one. So it could very well be a Zanshin if you can Zanshin a counter. You can apparently Zanshin on a guarded attack according to wiki, so I wouldn't be surprised if you can Zanshin a counter.

[-Zer0-]

In the Hammerblow room, the drops are set; but any of you guys know which one drops what? We usually run with 6-8 and have one or two in need of ability or so by the time we get there, but haven't been keeping track of which crew drops what cells.

I know the Mnk far to the right drops magic and the Rdm far to the left drops HP. Trying to figure the best order to pull them~

[aurik]

Middle monk drops weapons.