Salvage - Silver Sea Remnants - thread 2

[pchan]

He never said under 8 min

he did.

The whole floor should take under 8-10 minutes.

and you don't need fraps, as i've explained. F5 ftw.

[Neosutra]

he did.



and you don't need fraps, as i've explained. F5 ftw.

Fairly obvious we were talking "under 10" and between 8 and 10 minutes, as our discussions in the pages following revolved around getting down to the 8 minute mark.

And dont get butthurt that you were obviously wrong about the timelines for this floor Pchan. If your group is still taking >15 minutes on this floor, you need to quit salvage and not attack people that do it better and faster than you in every way.

[pchan]

Fairly obvious we were talking "under 10" and between 8 and 10 minutes, as our discussions in the pages following revolved around getting down to the 8 minute mark.

And dont get butthurt that you were obviously wrong about the timelines for this floor Pchan. If your group is still taking >15 minutes on this floor, you need to quit salvage and not attack people that do it better and faster than you in every way.

less blabla moar pic. My group doesn't take > 15 min, it takes exactly 15 min, with 2 mnks.

[Neosutra]

Jesus, you argue just to argue.

You'll get nothing and like it lol. You can wait for a vid friday, or continue to cry about your group failing in the mean time.

And your 15 minutes is atrocious, are you not using 2 hours? Double brds? Detail exactly what you are doing poorly, so we can know what not to do.

[Darkhelmet]

Well, you went from "under 8-10 minutes" to finishing in ~12 minutes (which you provided no screenshots of) to a 10 minute max standard that you haven't even ironed out yet. If your group finished in 12, does that mean you suck? You had a ton of excuses.. some may have been valid, but your group isn't the only ones that have setbacks.

It's annoying when people don't hold themselves accountable for statements they make. It really doesn't even sound like you ever timed yourself on this floor, and you're kind of set back by the actual amount of time it does take. Crazy things happen when you parse and/or time yourself.

The rampart deaggroing.. yeah, that happens. THF taking a few extra seconds to port.. yeah, that happens. Someone doesn't have a 2hr up.. yeah, that happens. Averages are averages because the lows factor in as well.. not just the top 1% of what is convenient to call your average.

If you didn't mean under 8 minutes, don't say "under 8-10 minutes". The statement "under 8-10 minutes" includes the 7-minute range. It's also not very reasonable for a typical salvage group to do this floor between 8-10 minutes, let alone under 8-10. 8-10 minutes requires seasoned veterans with vastly superior gear, and even then, shit goes wrong.

I think your epeen was squirting checks that your skills cannot cash. I'm sure your group is full of good players, but come on man..

[Neosutra]

Well, you went from "under 8-10 minutes" to finishing in ~12 minutes (which you provided no screenshots of) to a 10 minute max standard that you haven't even ironed out yet. If your group finished in 12, does that mean you suck? You had a ton of excuses.. some may have been valid, but your group isn't the only ones that have setbacks.

It's annoying when people don't hold themselves accountable for statements they make. It really doesn't even sound like you ever timed yourself on this floor, and you're kind of set back by the actual amount of time it does take. Crazy things happen when you parse and/or time yourself.

The rampart deaggroing.. yeah, that happens. THF taking a few extra seconds to port.. yeah, that happens. Someone doesn't have a 2hr up.. yeah, that happens. Averages are averages because the lows factor in as well.. not just the top 1% of what is convenient to call your average.

If you didn't mean under 8 minutes, don't say "under 8-10 minutes". The statement "under 8-10 minutes" includes the 7-minute range. It's also not very reasonable for a typical salvage group to do this floor between 8-10 minutes, let alone under 8-10. 8-10 minutes requires seasoned veterans with vastly superior gear, and even then, shit goes wrong.

I think your epeen was squirting checks that your skills cannot cash. I'm sure your group is full of good players, but come on man..

Learn to fucking read man. I quoted specific times it took for us to complete each actions and total time on that floor for THAT run, so obviously I timed it. I stated our fastest time was just over 8 minutes, and already stated that I was saying 8-10 was a range, and the "under" didnt mean under 8 minutes. I also stated such a time was our "best" which shouldnt be the standard and a good "standard" was 10 minutes. I also stated the setup and damage needed to obtain that.

I went through the architecture of the floor and time for each event, and detailed areas that cause time lapses and what cost us time on our most recent run (where we didnt even have the setup or 2 hours I stated you would want).

A good group SHOULD be aiming for close to 10 mintues on this floor, as it is MORE than reasonable. 15 minutes should be a "we fucked up" time. Hell, we had a slow fucked up floor with several altercations and we still finished in 12 without breaking a sweat.

Im sorry if these times intimidate you. Take the information you want from these threads and make your group better, or ignore them and stick with what you like. But dont get angry at if people do it faster/better.

[Crizto]

Neo is immune to all forms of criticism on his statements. So it seems to get to this magical '8-minute' mark it requires 3 DD's, 2 BRDs, a BLM, may as well throw in a COR too. I don't know how typical of a setup that is, but personally with 5 people it takes roughly 15 min to clear using either double MNK or MNK and SAM. It's looking like Neo is flaunting about saying his group of 8 can kill faster than Pchans group of 6. Yeah I agree when you bring 4 DD's as opposed to 2, and possible 1 extra BRD (considering I don't know if Pchan rolls with two BRDs) you'll do it under 15 min. That doesn't give you any right to say his group is trash.

[Neosutra]

On another note:

Im actually thinking of giving my thf a few pairs of flee boots, and having him keep the gear train in the south corridor (reaggro and flee back south again and again) while we kill ramparts in the hallway right before CC room. This would shave off 2-3 minutes of pulling/walking, but would be a bit more risky. I say the hallway, instead of the chest room, because if the gear train makes it that far and aggroes someone in the hallway, they will typically just kill that person then return on their path.

I may test this friday, but has some complications so we will see.

Edit: And to critzo: Pchan was the first to comment on times and groups ability. I showed my numbers/jobs/times as a counter to him calling my times exagerated. And even with a group of 6, 15 minutes is too much. And "lol you cant do it because I cant" isnt critism, it is narsism, and I have every right to ignore it.

[Darkhelmet]

Im sorry if these times intimidate you. Take the information you want from these threads and make your group better, or ignore them and stick with what you like. But dont get angry at if people do it faster/better.

I'm not angry. I've never timed a CC floor. I just think it's funny that you state something, realize that you're wrong after you timed it, then make excuses when people call you out on it.

[Neosutra]

And yet I never said I was wrong.

I stated the target times and reasons people may miss them, as well displayed how our "best" time was achievable within the standards I set, with an example from our last run. I then stated areas of deviation, good target times for a similar setup, and ways to improve on that to meet that 8 min mark.

Get over yourself and learn to read, you still missed the point and continue to respond out of some misplaced sense of retribution over someone saying they do something better than you do. Learn to improve your group, or move the fuck on.

[Darkhelmet]

Of course you never admitted you're wrong. You're too proud to do that.

I know most of the BG fanboys are going look at your posts and dream about doing salvage as great as you do, but I'm sure if you posted screenshots of the last 6 months of the CC floor, your times are not going to average from 8-10 minutes.

I see no need to improve my group, I'm not jealous of you, I just want to see some of you epeeners either back up your statements or take some accountability for your fake numbers.

[pchan]

Neo is immune to all forms of criticism on his statements. So it seems to get to this magical '8-minute' mark it requires 3 DD's, 2 BRDs, a BLM, may as well throw in a COR too. I don't know how typical of a setup that is, but personally with 5 people it takes roughly 15 min to clear using either double MNK or MNK and SAM. It's looking like Neo is flaunting about saying his group of 8 can kill faster than Pchans group of 6. Yeah I agree when you bring 4 DD's as opposed to 2, and possible 1 extra BRD (considering I don't know if Pchan rolls with two BRDs) you'll do it under 15 min. That doesn't give you any right to say his group is trash.

Usually mnkx2 and brd if we do boss, mnkx2 if not. CC dies @ 14 min mark with 2 mnks, no brd, and no chariot killed. Brd doesn't make a huge difference as a lot of the time is spent running. The initial pull takes exactly 3 minutes and you can't speed it up. 2 min after the train enters the room near where you warp.

[gamez]

Just a note, Debut Video Recording studio is something Ashira told me to use in place of Fraps and it works perfectly, and has a couple extra features to cut down on size.

[Neosutra]

lol at brd not making a differance Pchan. You make it hard to take you serious sometimes.

And Darkhelmit, I have nothing more to say to you if you have no interest in improving your time. If you arent constantly seeking to improve your group, then you should stop reading this thread.

Even when we full clear a zone with X minutes left over with perfect results on every floor, I still want to full clear it with X+1 minutes left over the next time.

Different play styles, but dont assume better performance results are "fictitious", it's rather embarrasing.

[pchan]

lol at brd not making a differance Pchan. You make it hard to take you serious sometimes.
.

Doesn't surprise me from someone that brings 4 DDs and 2 brds in salvage ..

[Neosutra]

Only in that zone lol. SSR and Bhaf have enough cells to support it, and there is no shortage of people interested in salvage. If you have the people, and the zone supports it (and you can kill faster/better with it), then do it.

But you really lost all credibility with the brd comment.

[Darkhelmet]

I don't have any interest in improving my time because I never go for CC. I just wanted to see you back up your claims, which you seem so good at avoiding.

All I've asked for are screenshots of claims that you've made. Can you do it or can you not do it? I want to see 8 minutes. I want to see the first screenshot of /clock with the porting animation up to the 4th floor, I want to see the screenshot of /clock when CC is killed, and I want to see the screenshot of /clock with the porting animation up to the 5th floor.

I don't expect you to do it because honestly I don't think you can, even though you said you can.

[Neosutra]

So someone with a reading comprehension problem that has no interest in improving their group and doesnt even do the floor we are talking about wants to enter the debate on floor mechanics. Awesome..

You are just being obtuse and arguing to argue.

Those interested in seeing floor dynamics can wait for my vid on friday. Those interested in timelines can check my earlier post detailing my last run. You can continue to ingore what Im saying just to try and save face. Move your pathetic ass out of this thread and go back to not caring that your group sux.

Go back into your corner with people like Pchan that think brds are useless.

Bards suck, and 2 bards are twice as bad right?

[Arthars]

wow wtf are we still talking about how long it takes on 4F?

get the turtle, get to boss, clr the zone is all it mattersssssss

[rithridan]

On another note:

Im actually thinking of giving my thf a few pairs of flee boots, and having him keep the gear train in the south corridor (reaggro and flee back south again and again) while we kill ramparts in the hallway right before CC room. This would shave off 2-3 minutes of pulling/walking, but would be a bit more risky. I say the hallway, instead of the chest room, because if the gear train makes it that far and aggroes someone in the hallway, they will typically just kill that person then return on their path.

I may test this friday, but has some complications so we will see.

I can forsee some issues with that. Mainly once the gear train deaggros the THF it will go back to where it was before aggroing the THF. The problem is that it goes back uninterrupted and I'm not sure if the THF can aggro it again before it reaches the group.