Salvage - Silver Sea Remnants - thread 2

[Uzor]

Our brds link at least 1-2 fomor/imps almost every time. We have them kite them past us and we target the imp. By the time the imp is dead, the fomor has lost hate and the brd is pulling it back to us.

But seriously, you ignored the other points. The only reason you can/should be having your rdm pull is if you brought and whm and have NO brds. Drop the whm, get an extra brd, and kill faster. If your brd is getting the shit beat out of them, or cant keep songs up, or is a slow puller: Get better brds.

You're the one that obviously ignored the points, as I mentioned the BRD is dualboxed by a THF/MNK, and thus having the RDM pull is more beneficial than, say, telling the THF to get out and pull. There's no need to drop the WHM and get an extra BRD, the BRD is excellent, especially considering he's dualboxing, and getting 2 BRDs is pointless for us. Mainly because we're almost done in Salvage (hence why the majority of the Salvage drops are for sale in our group, including hara-ate) and getting another member wouldn't serve our group any good.

The discussion begin because your idiot friend pchan is saying people are stupid for bringing 3 DD. He also thinks people are stupid for gearing 3 DD before a rdm. Yet all of us can clear the exact things you can, with different setups. As I've said, it all works. If you 2box a brd, then yea, having the brd pull is dumb. If you don't, then it has the same benefits of a merit party.

Groups can clear SSR with only a whm+brd, no rdm at all. They can do it with just a rdm, they can do it with 2 mages. Really, it all works, which is what I've been saying.

You can cast slow, you can not cast slow. You can use sam/war, you can use mnk/nin. I'm not trying to tell you guys that it's not possible to do it with rdm getting cells that early. I'm trying to say it is 100% without a doubt possible to give your rdm cells 4th and full clear the zone with time remaining. I am saying that giving gear to any of your players that know what they are doing (except the bard) is beneficial. It isn't going to be noticeably different if you go ddx3-rdm or ddx2-rdm-dd unless your group sucks.

I still think slow/para are a huge waste of effort/mp on normal fomor.

Yes, I know. As I said earlier, Pchan can be obnoxious, and imo go about getting his point across the wrong way. I do not, however, like you insulting the capabilities of my group based on Pchan's behavior. And although you may not believe so, he is actually a great player. I really don't mind you insulting Pchan, he's a big boy and can take it, and to be honest, he knows acting the way he do will cause a lot of controversy. I would appreciate if you don't base your opinion of Pchan on my group's capabilities though.

[Neosutra]

Saying your group choses a whm over a brd due to not wanting to get another member for a group almost done with salvage is different than advocating an inferior combination to other people here.

[Uzor]

Please do quote me saying you should choose a WHM over a BRD.

[Neosutra]

More indirectly by advocating or justifying rdm pulling over brd, when in reality the truth was "we dont feel like getting another member".

[Uzor]

I personally didn't advocate RDM pulling over BRD. I stated that we prefer it due to our BRD, a lot of the time, is dualboxed. When he don't dualbox he do pull. If you've read what Mdk has written on earlier occasions, he mentions BRD pulling.

[Neosutra]

Im sorry if that wasnt your intention. I got you tied up with pchan in this discussion, as you were both arguing similar points, in the same group it seems.. >.>

[Miraun]

Btw... Pantin Cape = Where?

[FailureMidgard]

Nice one. A lot of babla to admit that the third DD brings absolutely no contribution to the success of the run. Only reason you gear 3dd before mages is if you need the damage, obviously it's not.

It brings the exact same contribution as gearing your red mage early. You still seem too dense to understand that anyone getting gear helps the run. You think you need to slow fomor? I say our extra DD lets us kill Fomor faster which actually negates more swings than your slow does. It's all the same in the end.

So sure, I admit that a 3rd DD isn't needed (I think I even said this earlier). I also admit that you don't need to gear your rdm until 3f.

"Only reason you gear rdm before 3dd is if you need the healing, obviously it's not."

Yes, I know. As I said earlier, Pchan can be obnoxious, and imo go about getting his point across the wrong way. I do not, however, like you insulting the capabilities of my group based on Pchan's behavior. And although you may not believe so, he is actually a great player. I really don't mind you insulting Pchan, he's a big boy and can take it, and to be honest, he knows acting the way he do will cause a lot of controversy. I would appreciate if you don't base your opinion of Pchan on my group's capabilities though.

Uhhh, I think Neo insulted your group by saying something about bad groups get good drops, I don't think I insulted your group, I didn't intend to. I perhaps did insult pchans intelligence though.

[Mansin]

he'll have trouble paralyzing because they naturally resist (undead). but gear= stronger slow and para.

So what you're arguing essentially is that a stronger slow and paralyze is better than a naked DD. Got it.

[Uzor]

So what you're arguing essentially is that a stronger slow and paralyze is better than a naked DD. Got it.

I assume this isn't what you mean, because quite naturally anything is better than a naked DD.

Anyway, it entirely depends on the zone. In Bhaflau, I'd have to say no, because so much shit drops you could probably fully unlock over 12 people In Arrapago and Zhayolm, yes. In Silversea, I'm torn. Personally I don't like unlocking more than 2 melees either way, as I don't like bringing more than 2 melees. Anyone besides the "needed" group won't get many cells at all, and that goes for all cells except Bhaflau.

If you want a reasoning, I believe Mdk and Pchan mentioned it earlier. There's more to do besides enfeebling. Yes, your enfeebles geet stronger, which lead to them melees taking less his, which lead to more damage, but it also increases a RDM's MP, making them last longer. Sure, mages don't run out of MP much, but I consider it a "just in case" kid of deal. You don't need SJ on Bhoot either, but it does help in case shit goes south. In those cases more MP can be the difference because survival and a wipe.

In either case, the only "important" pieces a RDM need that I try to get them are body, rings and head (besides weapon for cure potency), as this increase their MP recovery by 3/tick. The other pieces are just bonuses, and, at least when I call cells, are usually given to 3rd melee first. The other improve other areas of their job, but the focus should always lie in MP recovery.

[mdkuser]

So what you're arguing essentially is that a stronger slow and paralyze is better than a naked DD. Got it.

exactly. did you experience the differece between a -25 MND slow paralyze ( naked rdm) and a +85 MND slow paralyze ( pchan's)? I did and well. I can hardly solo tank GG3 on monk with a naked RDM using 2H and medecines. I can tank it on THF np with a full unlocked rdm. Huge difference. If the fomors have slowII paraII and elegy they will never hit you.

[Fridell]

I've been solo mage as RDM pulling, curing, buffing, hasting, refreshing and leading run, it's frustrating but works when needed to be done.

Yo yo read what I said also.

Also, if one needs 2 BRD or BRD + COR you suck, gtfo

[mdkuser]

only really need brd and whm if you do boss anyway.

[Asya]

Yo yo read what I said also.

Also, if one needs 2 BRD or BRD + COR you suck, gtfo

No one said it's needed you know... and well, it's easy as saying "if one
needs RDM+WHM you suck, gtfo".

the whole drama started with a guy asking what setup would be better, 2 setup were showed and according to what each team said, both setup can fully clear SSR without trouble. It's time for him to try both and see what is better for his team.

[Fridell]

And no one sense sarcasm on the internet.

And yea, agreed with Mdkuser, only really helps with WHM + BRD to do bosses and hit most / all NMs.

[Neosutra]

Also, if one needs 2 BRD or BRD + COR you suck, gtfo

Same goes for haste gear, WS swaps, macros in general, and using food.

If you need to use the best approach to do something, then you suck. We should all melee in hecatomb to prove we dont suck.

[Portcity]

tp in full heca is win

[pchan]

Same goes for haste gear, WS swaps, macros in general, and using food.

If you need to use the best approach to do something, then you suck. We should all melee in hecatomb to prove we dont suck.

How is bringing extra people the best approch when you can just split and get more drops. It's like saying the best merits parties are done with 5 monk/war, triple bard and cor rotation with 15 extra healers. Stick to tankx2 thf rdm whm brd.

[FailureMidgard]

How is bringing extra people the best approch when you can just split and get more drops. It's like saying the best merits parties are done with 5 monk/war, triple bard and cor rotation with 15 extra healers. Stick to tankx2 thf rdm whm brd.

I agree with 6, but you can also do mage, 2dd, brd, cor, thf
or mage 3dd brd thf

Doesn't really matter.

[Portcity]

Yo yo read what I said also.

Also, if one needs 2 BRD or BRD + COR you suck, gtfo

i like how this guy thinks, come to lakshmi and tell that to some ppl i know