Salvage - Arrapago Remnants - thread 2

[Arthars]

some new info:

1. They DID KILL 1F's Rampart and sabotender (OMG)
2. 6F's gears and rampart were picked off randomly (no specific pulling order)
3. Box's item were retrieved as normal, although 3F they warped immediately after killing TH and missed the box(he said its natural for all of us to miss some)
4. They killed the rampart and treant as normal without any special actions (however only 1 treant pop from 2 rampart, meaning 1 rampart didnt pop treant at all)
5. it seems to him that the THs pop immediately after the last mob (which is the treant as they killed 2nd rampart last)
6. He says its late for him and hes sleepy, so the above 1-5 is just a simplified summary of what he did

Air museum's owner also asked him below 2 questions and is now tracking into:
1. what special actions he did in 1F door and sabotender
2. how much time he kill the rampart in 6F that pops treant, he thinks it got something to do with these ramparts

hoping for more detail info from him

[divisortheory]

I find it hard to believe that all the times we have all cleared 6th floor that it never coincided with the 10min mark when the floor was cleared before the door was open. I tend to beleive that there is more to the pop condition that clearing the floor and stading there til the 10min mark. I suppose it is possible since after floor clear most people instantly pop the door, but I really doubt that is ALL there is to it.

Edit: We will use our run tonight to test this

It's not that hard to believe for me. Usually after clearing the floor you immediately warp to the boss. So to accidentally notice this you'd have to have cleared the entire floor with around 10 minutes and 10-15 seconds left, so that the 10 minute warning would happen after you cleared the last mob, but before you warped. Also, afaik almost nobody clears the shit that pops after you clear the floor the first time.

Edit: based on the above, looks like they did not kill the Sapling ramparts.

[Francisco II]

Did they kill all the Archaic Gears and Ramparts on Floors 4 and 5? The only thing different from that run compared with any other seems to be killing the first Floor Rampart... so maybe all Archaic mobs (or ramparts) need to die?

[Arthars]

i'll try to ask later

he's zzzz atm, and i going zzzz now

hope to see interesting info soon

[Alexei]

::Speculative post::
Maybe it's something simple like killing one of the Ramparts fast enough that it doesn't pop a Treant, and it'll make the QQTHs spawn?

SUIRAM LET'S DO ARRAPAGO TONIGHT AND FIND OUT!

[Ravenlokk]

f5'ing waiting for u to wake up with more info...

my arrapago static has horrible luck on drops, more kill chances would be hawt!

[divisortheory]

::Speculative post::
Maybe it's something simple like killing one of the Ramparts fast enough that it doesn't pop a Treant, and it'll make the QQTHs spawn?

SUIRAM LET'S DO ARRAPAGO TONIGHT AND FIND OUT!

That would definitely have been discovered by now. It's something that didn't happen in tens or hundreds of "normal" attempts, so I think it's safe to rule out stuff that people try all the time. My money is on needing to kill the Sabotender, all QQs, and the Chariot. That would account for all the "forced pop" mobs in the zone.

[exceed]

mod says: try again

[exceed]

mod says: strike 2

[Odog]

I find it hard to believe that all the times we have all cleared 6th floor that it never coincided with the 10min mark when the floor was cleared before the door was open. I tend to beleive that there is more to the pop condition that clearing the floor and stading there til the 10min mark. I suppose it is possible since after floor clear most people instantly pop the door, but I really doubt that is ALL there is to it.

Edit: We will use our run tonight to test this

It's not that hard to believe for me. Usually after clearing the floor you immediately warp to the boss. So to accidentally notice this you'd have to have cleared the entire floor with around 10 minutes and 10-15 seconds left, so that the 10 minute warning would happen after you cleared the last mob, but before you warped. Also, afaik almost nobody clears the shit that pops after you clear the floor the first time.

Edit: based on the above, looks like they did not kill the Sapling ramparts.

I'm still confused... Did we decide that the 6th floor ramparts and their reinforcements were killed or left alone? If need to be killed I agree with Divisor that those conditions are not often met on the "normal" runs we do. If they do not need to be killed than that is what virtually everyone does and that we would have seen them popped by accident before going to the boss floor imho.

1st floor Rampart might have some promise there too.

Safe to say that all NM's + Boss would be likely impossible due to time costraints

[divisortheory]

There's 4 ramparts on the 6th floor. Two are up from the start, they spawn Treants. The other 2 pop after you clear the entire floor. Those spawn Saplings and Korrigans. According to the source, it popped right after they finished killing the 2 Treant ramparts, so you can assume they did not kill either of the 2 Sapling ramparts, sinec those aren't even up until both Treant ramparts are dead.

[Suiram]

My memory fails me, are the sapling/korrigan ramparts up as soon as the floor is cleared, or when the door is opened to the 7th floor?

[Narse]

When the door is opened.

[Francisco II]

What about the ramparts in the two side rooms? Are they the Korrigan ramparts, or are they up from the start?

[Hanyoko]

Without knowing more about exact actions on 6th floor. Could it be 3rd floor Bhaflau rampart style and just need to kill both at about the same time or within a certain timelimit?

@10 min mark just seems a little harsh to be that way.

Though if thats the case, that may apply to Zhayolm as well.

[Odog]

Anyone got a clue if the killed the ramparts on the 5th floor? (trying to rule out the kill all archaic machinery)

[divisortheory]

They may have killed every rampart in the zone, but I highly doubt they killed every gear as well, because it would be really hard, if not impossible, to kill every rampart + gear + every NM and still have time to clear 6th floor with 10 minutes left.

[Francisco II]

I'm pretty sure there are 10 Ramparts in total... one on Floor 1, two on Floor 4, three on Floor 5 and four on Floor 6... Possibly six (?) on Floor 6... I'm not clear on the mechanics of the floor at the moment.

[divisortheory]

I'm pretty sure there are 10 Ramparts in total... one on Floor 1, two on Floor 4, three on Floor 5 and four on Floor 6... Possibly six (?) on Floor 6... I'm not clear on the mechanics of the floor at the moment.

Read the first post on this page. As for # of ramparts that can theoretically be killed up until the point that the people popped these QQTHs, there's 8. 1 on 1F, 2 on 4F, 3 on 5F and 2 on 6F.

[Kaylia]

u mean how to pull 3F qiqirn TH from its warp room all the way back to rooms before huge rectangle room?
if u mean that, the idea is basically:
thf flee > pull from furthest range > run back a bit > sneak > run back to grp at room before huge room
if S, where there are soulflayers, prolly do the same but no need sneak and either 1. run back with aggros, then 1 voker voke TH in, or 2. no aggro and consider really really lucky

Basically, I was asking if there is a way to reliably send the Qirin to the rest of the party, without having to sneak through the ghost and have it follow you. I don't understand the mechanic that make him run back to you at time, and run to the other end of his path other time quite well.



Ontopic, qirin discovery is pretty damn interesting. Probably going to help us with madame as in zhayolm too.