Salvage - Arrapago Remnants - thread 2

[Wizerd]

Neosutra:

We give our SJs to two MNK/NINs or a WAR/NIN and a MNK/NIN first because it means no farming time after 1F. We spend a good amount of time on 1F, getting the basic cells we need for everyone, and the rest is clearing paths for killing (5F QQA, 4 gears have to die) or building TP (a Lamia or two on 2F, same on 3F), or killing NMs (QQA > QQTH > Bhoot/Psycheflayer > QQTH > QQA > Archaic Chariot > QQTH > QQTH). With this strategy, we kill the boss regularly every time now.

You mention that a boss run is 9-10 whereas with 6-7 you don't do the boss - but why not? With 6-7, all NMs and boss is a lot easier due to less time spent on 1F. The only thing that becomes harder is clearing 6F for QQTHs, but even that's still possible with good pulling.

Also, you said what I bring is double the DDs that you bring, but I only bring 4 DDs, including THF. That would imply that you bring 2 DDs, a THF and somethin else? Bring a second real damage dealer and you can get a lot more done, hehe. And RNG is a waste if you spend a lot of time on 1F, because from what I've been able to tell, Qutrub have piercing penalty, just like skeletons.

[Uzor]

And RNG is a waste if you spend a lot of time on 1F, because from what I've been able to tell, Qutrub have piercing penalty, just like skeletons.

Banish

And yeah, I don't see why you'd skip boss on a 6-7 person run. You can hit every NM and boss with 6-7 people rather easily. Although, if you don't bring a THF, you can get severely bummed on cells if you're unlucky. Shouldn't be too hard to bring the boss down in under 10 min with 6-7 people

[Neosutra]

Neosutra:

We give our SJs to two MNK/NINs or a WAR/NIN and a MNK/NIN first because it means no farming time after 1F. We spend a good amount of time on 1F, getting the basic cells we need for everyone, and the rest is clearing paths for killing (5F QQA, 4 gears have to die) or building TP (a Lamia or two on 2F, same on 3F), or killing NMs (QQA > QQTH > Bhoot/Psycheflayer > QQTH > QQA > Archaic Chariot > QQTH > QQTH). With this strategy, we kill the boss regularly every time now.

You mention that a boss run is 9-10 whereas with 6-7 you don't do the boss - but why not? With 6-7, all NMs and boss is a lot easier due to less time spent on 1F. The only thing that becomes harder is clearing 6F for QQTHs, but even that's still possible with good pulling.

Also, you said what I bring is double the DDs that you bring, but I only bring 4 DDs, including THF. That would imply that you bring 2 DDs, a THF and somethin else? Bring a second real damage dealer and you can get a lot more done, hehe. And RNG is a waste if you spend a lot of time on 1F, because from what I've been able to tell, Qutrub have piercing penalty, just like skeletons.

Our setup is usually:
Nin Thf Rdm Blm Brd Rng

We have had a few times that we have killed every qutrub on first floor and recieved ZERO incus cells, so i started asking the 6th to come rng, the added shadow bind and being out of AoE range helps a bit, but the 3 melees arent powerhouse DDs so the first floor still takes us 35-40 minutes usually (get most everyone JA/MA that needs and hp/stats). Banish on qutrub does help, and we do when we have an extra whm handy.

2nd floor kill 2 lamia and the QQ and zone up, typically 5 minutes here.

3rd, everyone runs straight to QQ, kills 2 lamia in that room for 2 more JA and then kills QQ, time spent: 6-7 minutes if we kill 2 lamia and a ghost or 2.

4th, kill QQ, farm gears for a couple SJ, kill bhoot/flayer if first floor didnt dick us for cells/time, zone up: time spent -> 15 min.

5th floor: Send thf to portal, clear gear rooms, kill QQ, kill chariot, get TP and zone up: 15-20 minutes.

6th floor: 2 hour gears and pull them asap, have yet to be able to clear in time with this setup, but have come damn close.

So on a great day where we dont get dicked for cells, we have time to kill the boss, but for some reason we have been utterly fucked for cells on the last 5 runs (no drops off any lamias on first floor one run, no incus off any qutrub another run), so we havent been able to kill boss in same run due to so much time on first floor.

When we bring a group of 8-10, its a joke. I would like to be able to kill all NMs and boss with 6 soon, but atm our luck just hasnt panned out that way. 3 Ares body and an usu legs complete at least, but 0/93847749303 on Machas coat /facepalm.

[Wizerd]

And RNG is a waste if you spend a lot of time on 1F, because from what I've been able to tell, Qutrub have piercing penalty, just like skeletons.

Banish

And yeah, I don't see why you'd skip boss on a 6-7 person run. You can hit every NM and boss with 6-7 people rather easily. Although, if you don't bring a THF, you can get severely bummed on cells if you're unlucky. Shouldn't be too hard to bring the boss down in under 10 min with 6-7 people

Banish isn't really practical when the mob dies in 15 seconds anyway, though, on every single Qutrub/Skeleton.

[Bakthi]

Neosutra: So basically, you don't have any /WHM until the 5th (if gears are killed) or 6th floor? I feel like I'd hate to risk that on the first floor in case a DD got paralyzed (and I guess everyone brings Holy Water for 4F? What about if you do the flayer?) Seriously asking how it works out for you, not trying to be confrontational.

[Seditedi]

I don't see how you can have such problems with damage Sed =/ I usually get the first magic as WHM, and even if the RDM, once he get magic, never cast Phalanx II, we don't have any problems what-so-ever with the melees being MP sponges, with or without SJ pre-floor 4. A Regen III is more then enough to cover the damage he takes, and to even heal him to full. Hell, with a BRD and RDM as well, you'll have enough MP to haste your entire alliance and keep them alive, so why not give first SJ to a RDM or BLM?

Uh... I never said we have trouble with melee taking too much damage... read my post lol... 3F mobs do hit for more than 1F or 2F by a bit imo, so we give SJ to melee.

[sarlazzar]

sigh, we are now nearly 0/60+ on qqa and qqth, i read on the earlier pages on this thread that qqa have a better chance to drop ares body if it is killed before getting to the port? is there any other theory to improve qqa drop rate? ; ;

[Neosutra]

Neosutra: So basically, you don't have any /WHM until the 5th (if gears are killed) or 6th floor? I feel like I'd hate to risk that on the first floor in case a DD got paralyzed (and I guess everyone brings Holy Water for 4F? What about if you do the flayer?) Seriously asking how it works out for you, not trying to be confrontational.

My brd pulls with dispel and the rdm makes sure to take off spikes again if they use it mid fight, so no one ever gets paralyzed in the first place.

Edit: We dont do flayer w/o a whm.

[Seditedi]

sigh, we are now nearly 0/60+ on qqa and qqth, i read on the earlier pages on this thread that qqa have a better chance to drop ares body if it is killed before getting to the port? is there any other theory to improve qqa drop rate? ; ;

Its all luck..
we've killed QQTH fast and QQA fast and like 3 deimos's cuirass and 0 macha's coat.. highly doubt anything affects drop rate.
The only thing that affects QQA drop rate is letting it warp before you kill it lol

[Wizerd]

Neosutra: So basically, you don't have any /WHM until the 5th (if gears are killed) or 6th floor? I feel like I'd hate to risk that on the first floor in case a DD got paralyzed (and I guess everyone brings Holy Water for 4F? What about if you do the flayer?) Seriously asking how it works out for you, not trying to be confrontational.

My brd pulls with dispel and the rdm makes sure to take off spikes again if they use it mid fight, so no one ever gets paralyzed in the first place.

Edit: We dont do flayer w/o a whm.

There are other status effects that are nice to have cures for, besides Paralyze. :/

[NynJa]

Neosutra: So basically, you don't have any /WHM until the 5th (if gears are killed) or 6th floor? I feel like I'd hate to risk that on the first floor in case a DD got paralyzed (and I guess everyone brings Holy Water for 4F? What about if you do the flayer?) Seriously asking how it works out for you, not trying to be confrontational.

My brd pulls with dispel and the rdm makes sure to take off spikes again if they use it mid fight, so no one ever gets paralyzed in the first place.

Edit: We dont do flayer w/o a whm.

There are other status effects that are nice to have cures for, besides Paralyze. :/

Yeah, but you should have people carry antidotes for those poisonga2's that get off. They're not expensive at all.

[aurik]

Neosutra: So basically, you don't have any /WHM until the 5th (if gears are killed) or 6th floor? I feel like I'd hate to risk that on the first floor in case a DD got paralyzed (and I guess everyone brings Holy Water for 4F? What about if you do the flayer?) Seriously asking how it works out for you, not trying to be confrontational.

My brd pulls with dispel and the rdm makes sure to take off spikes again if they use it mid fight, so no one ever gets paralyzed in the first place.

Edit: We dont do flayer w/o a whm.

There are other status effects that are nice to have cures for, besides Paralyze. :/

Yeah, but you should have people carry antidotes for those poisonga2's that get off. They're not expensive at all.

Bio2, slow, curse.

[Wizerd]

Yeah, but you should have people carry antidotes for those poisonga2's that get off. They're not expensive at all.

Poison is just one. Paralyze, Blind, Cursna among others. One notable one is Terror Touch (Extreme attack down) on ghosts, or Bio from a lot of the mobs.

Edit-before-actually-posting: Aurik beat me.

[Neosutra]

Yeah, but you should have people carry antidotes for those poisonga2's that get off. They're not expensive at all.

Poison is just one. Paralyze, Blind, Cursna among others. One notable one is Terror Touch (Extreme attack down) on ghosts, or Bio from a lot of the mobs.

Edit-before-actually-posting: Aurik beat me.

Bio is one of the downsides to no /whm at start, cursna is easy to fix with water, slow is easy with haste, and the blind from skeletons has never really hurt my acc enough to ever NEED blindna. Regardless, the discussion was wether it was a "waste" to give the cell to a rdm/blm or a blm/rdm instead of a tank job, which still would leave us with no /whm given that no mage would then have sub till 2nd or 4th floor.

I do take a whm with us whenever possible, but we do alot of this zone and go with whatever we can, SJ to blm or rdm at start just affords us a few more moments with the QQ on third floor and gives us some more time for other things during our low attendance days.

[Wizerd]

Yeah, but you should have people carry antidotes for those poisonga2's that get off. They're not expensive at all.

Poison is just one. Paralyze, Blind, Cursna among others. One notable one is Terror Touch (Extreme attack down) on ghosts, or Bio from a lot of the mobs.

Edit-before-actually-posting: Aurik beat me.

Bio is one of the downsides to no /whm at start, cursna is easy to fix with water, slow is easy with haste, and the blind from skeletons has never really hurt my acc enough to ever NEED blindna. Regardless, the discussion was wether it was a "waste" to give the cell to a rdm/blm or a blm/rdm instead of a tank job, which still would leave us with no /whm given that no mage would then have sub till 2nd or 4th floor.

I do take a whm with us whenever possible, but we do alot of this zone and go with whatever we can, SJ to blm or rdm at start just affords us a few more moments with the QQ on third floor and gives us some more time for other things during our low attendance days.

I give the first SJ to RDM/WHM if our WHM can't make it, but that's rare.

[cdgreg]

I started a new group recently and we've become much more proficient at the zone, but the major issue we have is attempting to clear the 6th floor in under 7 minutes to pop the 2 QQTHs. We usually have between 6-9 members building around mnk, nin, thf, blm, rdm, brd + another 2-3 who show up. I read Wizerd's blm manafont/sleepga strategy of killing gears and wondered if any other groups were using this successfully or found another strategy to kill them fast enough with a small group of members? Secondly, Wizerd do you target the Lamia's on the first floor for the extra Opacus cells or wait until the 3rd floor? I'm normally on BLM and usually do not have abilities unlocked even by the end of the run so we will definitely have to plan opacus farming cell time for this.

[Wizerd]

I started a new group recently and we've become much more proficient at the zone, but the major issue we have is attempting to clear the 6th floor in under 7 minutes to pop the 2 QQTHs. We usually have between 6-9 members building around mnk, nin, thf, blm, rdm, brd + another 2-3 who show up. I read Wizerd's blm manafont/sleepga strategy of killing gears and wondered if any other groups were using this successfully or found another strategy to kill them fast enough with a small group of members? Secondly, Wizerd do you target the Lamia's on the first floor for the extra Opacus cells or wait until the 3rd floor? I'm normally on BLM and usually do not have abilities unlocked even by the end of the run so we will definitely have to plan opacus farming cell time for this.

I don't think I was the one who came up with that strategy, but it only really works for us when we have at least 3 BLM come, especially since BLMs don't usually get a lot of gear and sometimes not even weapons. I give Opacus to one BLM after all the melees and the RDM if it happens to drop on our route, while getting everyone HP/other cells on 1F. I usually target 2F Lamiae for TP, and then just pull an extra Skel/Qutrub if someone still needs TP because of Torrent. Since the strategy requires a Fanatic's Drink, it's not something to rely on.

The best way to clear the room in under 7min is to have good pullers, and make sure Haste/Songs are kept on all the melees all the time. I'm partial to a THF/NIN puller with Magic/SJ unlocked, personally, since there's low risk of dying, and most/all our THFs have Skadi feet or something else to move 12% faster, now.

We haven't been successful the last few times because I've tried doing the BLM -aga thing with less than 3 BLMs, and they didn't kill the gears, so we ended up losing a lot of BLM power for the floor.

[Soraan]

We attempted popping the 6th Floor QQTHs last night for the first time and was unsuccessful. We had NIN, MNK, THF, BRD, RDM, WHM, BLM (so rather DD light IMO). Our BLM got a fanatic's drink and our THF Flee + Perfect Dodge gather them all up and our BLM went off on them and got most of them down to like 30% or so before he died (he was decently unlocked too, I think he was just missing ranged somehow). If we had a 2nd BLM, probably could have killed them all. We ended up killing all the gears within 7 mins, but not enough time for the 2 Ramparts. The BLM thing also depends on if you get a fanatic's drink in the chest, so can't rely on this for every run either. Was a decent first attempt considering what all jobs we had going, I 'pose. Any tips or suggestions would be helpful.

[Lordwafik]

We attempted popping the 6th Floor QQTHs last night for the first time and was unsuccessful. We had NIN, MNK, THF, BRD, RDM, WHM, BLM (so rather DD light IMO). Our BLM got a fanatic's drink and our THF Flee + Perfect Dodge gather them all up and our BLM went off on them and got most of them down to like 30% or so before he died (he was decently unlocked too, I think he was just missing ranged somehow). If we had a 2nd BLM, probably could have killed them all. We ended up killing all the gears within 7 mins, but not enough time for the 2 Ramparts. The BLM thing also depends on if you get a fanatic's drink in the chest, so can't rely on this for every run either. Was a decent first attempt considering what all jobs we had going, I 'pose. Any tips or suggestions would be helpful.

Better if you do what our group does, but it requires a BRD having Troubadour.

Get up SP songs while sitting on the porter of the previous floor, then have the best melee go up and start fighting, he'll get a headstart on everyone. Anyway, bard sings everyone songs and chainpulls nonstop, melees will have SV songs and tear mobs up. After a while, before songs wear, bard uses Troubadour and then you all get extended SV songs which means you should have them up long enough. We haven't failed to pop it this way, but if your melees suck then it doesn't work as well.

[cdgreg]

We attempted popping the 6th Floor QQTHs last night for the first time and was unsuccessful. We had NIN, MNK, THF, BRD, RDM, WHM, BLM (so rather DD light IMO). Our BLM got a fanatic's drink and our THF Flee + Perfect Dodge gather them all up and our BLM went off on them and got most of them down to like 30% or so before he died (he was decently unlocked too, I think he was just missing ranged somehow). If we had a 2nd BLM, probably could have killed them all. We ended up killing all the gears within 7 mins, but not enough time for the 2 Ramparts. The BLM thing also depends on if you get a fanatic's drink in the chest, so can't rely on this for every run either. Was a decent first attempt considering what all jobs we had going, I 'pose. Any tips or suggestions would be helpful.

Better if you do what our group does, but it requires a BRD having Troubadour.

Get up SP songs while sitting on the porter of the previous floor, then have the best melee go up and start fighting, he'll get a headstart on everyone. Anyway, bard sings everyone songs and chainpulls nonstop, melees will have SV songs and tear mobs up. After a while, before songs wear, bard uses Troubadour and then you all get extended SV songs which means you should have them up long enough. We haven't failed to pop it this way, but if your melees suck then it doesn't work as well.

Nice strategy, whats your normal group setup or number of people?