Salvage - Arrapago Remnants - thread 2

[Wizerd]

No, really. If you choose to not melee in Haidate you're an idiot.

Nobody chooses not to melee in Haidate if they have it*. Some people choose to not sky, or have bad luck in sky, and therefore can't use Haidate because they don't have it.

* Except those who have Usukane pants (like myself).

Anyway, most players who've had MNK at 75 for at least a month have access to at least one of Usukane Hizayoroi, Melee Hose, or Byakko's Haidate, I think, so without any of those it's pretty hard to call a MNK good (I realize there are other pants options, so if someone without one of those were to apply to my LS I'd hear their case ).


And yay for another no drop Arrapago.

[Bakthi]

It's not really about the Haidate though. A monk at lv75 with crappy gear due to lack of availability is fine, but even they should have the basic 8% on belt, 5% on head, and 3% on feet, as a starting point. Tanking isn't the issue I find, anyone can tank with no haste gear if they have the spells, it's about kill speed.

And even if a MNK doesn't have the best gear, efficiency comes from many more places. Engaging mobs in a timely manner, being able to maintain shadows, keeping up with the group, lotting/passing quickly (but not so quickly they mess up), and having at least a slight understanding of the game plan...all of these mean a lot more to me than whatever gear. Especially in places like Arrapago, when they probably won't even get most of that gear until halfway through (though granted, they'll likely have belt and head on 1F). Sure, good gear makes you better, and you need some of it if you want efficient runs, but unless someone is totally wrong-headed and stubborn about it (and would such a person often meet my other criteria?), gear can be fixed.

[Lyramion]

While I really would love to agree and personal skill is a big factor - I also can see that Salvage is THE place where personal gear shines the brightest.


For example you can really feel if your RDM has AF2 hat or not - just because of those little ticks of MP at the start. Missing 5% Haste on legs can make the difference of time out with bos at 10% or having 1 minute to spare.

[Marinka]

My LS has been doing Arrapago with TH3/4 (depending on hand cells). The shell started in May of 2007 and started out doing Arrapago pretty regularly.

We are noticing more cell drops after the update.

We still however, have never seen an Ares Body 35 and only 1 Morrigan Body 35.

How in the @$#@* are all these people getting these drops? I'm not exaggerating when I say we've easily killed 150 Qiqirns. Are we just victims of the worst drop luck in history, or is there some detail I'm overlooking?

(Probably just shitty luck, but hey, if I don't ask...)

[Damane]

puller is the key to efficiently go up. I pull in my salvage group and know the route, I pull before the 1. cell have been even passed properly, it speeds up things and lets people realize they need to pass shit faster. I usually just bump my group from one fight into the other without takeing a break. Storm fife helps here with the MP in the lower lvls alot. WHMs tend to moan about low mp, who cares I still pull ¬.¬ there is still the rdm that can heal

standing around lets people get iffy

[cdgreg]

My LS has been doing Arrapago with TH3/4 (depending on hand cells). The shell started in May of 2007 and started out doing Arrapago pretty regularly.

We are noticing more cell drops after the update.

We still however, have never seen an Ares Body 35 and only 1 Morrigan Body 35.

How in the @$#@* are all these people getting these drops? I'm not exaggerating when I say we've easily killed 150 Qiqirns. Are we just victims of the worst drop luck in history, or is there some detail I'm overlooking?

(Probably just shitty luck, but hey, if I don't ask...)

I view Ares/Morrigan body 35 drops as a T0 HQ synth. In 50-100 kills most groups will get one, but there are still going to be those lucky groups who go 2/10 then the groups who mathematically even that out and go 0/150. I used to think 1/137 cursed mitts -1 was bad after seeing all the SS's in the media forum of ohhh 1/3, until I further read about people being 1/300ish on genies. So ya in my humble opinion it's all basic luck . Unless of course you kill it facing SW during a new moon and you have a millionaires desk, but thats obvious!

[Lycidia]

Unless of course you kill it facing SW during a new moon and you have a millionaires desk, but thats obvious!

Totally gonna get me fired. Read that at work and spit coffee on my keyboard.

Quit it.

[Crosis]

My LS has been doing Arrapago with TH3/4 (depending on hand cells). The shell started in May of 2007 and started out doing Arrapago pretty regularly.

We are noticing more cell drops after the update.

We still however, have never seen an Ares Body 35 and only 1 Morrigan Body 35.

How in the @$#@* are all these people getting these drops? I'm not exaggerating when I say we've easily killed 150 Qiqirns. Are we just victims of the worst drop luck in history, or is there some detail I'm overlooking?

(Probably just shitty luck, but hey, if I don't ask...)

Our LS got a bunch of Ares Body, about 7, in the first 6 months after Salvage was released and 2 Morrigan. But since then, which is about 4 months and counting, we haven't got a drop since from either rat. Though we do Arrapago a lot less now that Zhayolm was figured out but still pretty bad drop rate.

[Alcarin]

agree witht hee drop. We even put a rule on our runs. NO MORE ARRAPAGO without a thf.

And our first macha coat was without a thf =(

we are like 0/???? on ares body

and 1/???? macha coat.

1/3 on Ares head

3/5 Marduk hands -_-

0/3 macha crown

Btw how you kill the Psyflayer??? we being doing a kite style safe for us, because we always die on a AGA 3. Imposible to stun, i use blu stun no effect, and normal stun seems to resist a lot.
Any tipS????

[aurik]

Those agas don't do tremendous damage, and are easily healed. Just make sure to have shell4 or shell5 on everyone and HP unlocked. And make sure you dispel his MAB move.

[Seditedi]

What Aurik said...
How are you taking so much damage from aga IIIs? I can't see wiping to any of these NMs unless you screw up on pull and MPK your group. Shell IV/Shell V should be up and you won't take much damage from an aga3. Only way I can see your melee taking alot of damage from it is if your mages are lazy and don't buff lol..

Also for Psycheflayer, got to be sure that you reapply buffs after it does the AoE dispel move(forgot name) and have your mages stay far away so they don't get hit with it.

[Neosutra]

I never even notice he casts Agas lol.

Flayer is just annoying because he steals all my damn buffs. The bhoot on the other hand can lick my balls. Perdition tank followed by 1700 damage Ectosmash last time was awesome to the max.

[Bleu]

Since we're all throwing out stats...

My group has done approximately 60 Arrapagos to date. We've had the following drops:

3 Ares Body
1 Morrigans Body
2 Morrigans Crowns
4 Marduk Hands
5 Usukane Legs (at least)
0 Skadi Feet
0 Ares Masks

I've noticed no sign of any drop increase since the update -- actually we haven't gotten any 35s since the update.

[Alcarin]

Believe it or not, but last time we got a Thundaga III for about 1300 to our melee with shell IV, I in the other hand got 900 with stoneskin up, I dunno if it was the MAB or not but was insane.

It was one time thou, but after that we were like lets just kite it. First time it died in 3 mins, or soo, but all ppl died cause of that aoe bio posiosn shit.

Gonna retry tonite and aim for the megaboss.

[Ambir]

Btw how you kill the Psyflayer??? we being doing a kite style safe for us, because we always die on a AGA 3. Imposible to stun, i use blu stun no effect, and normal stun seems to resist a lot.
Any tipS????

We do the Flayer a lot, and I've never seen it resist BLM Stun, even with underequipped BLMs which is quite often the case at flayer time. One of it's specials gives it a big MAB boost thoguh, so if it a -gaIII goes off with that on it's nasty. We just keep unessential members out of range of that AoE slip move, A BRD to dispel spikes and enfeeble it, and it's usually pretty well behaved...

edit: oh and first sub to the flayer tank. Either voke for a NIN or shadows for a damage dealer. We only kill the two NMs on that level, so we only have the SJ from the starting chest.

[Zilong]

Do you guys not have BRD or something?

The BRD sing like 1 set of songs on melee and mage, pull then just on standby for ice spikes and the MAB boost

Unless you get completely jewed with Magic Shield > MAB boost > Successful -ga, I really don't see Psycheflayer being that hard at all.

For those 3 to happen, you'd need to fuck up big time since just simple WSing is usually enough to break spellcasting...and you always have the option to run stun WS with MNK and THF to a lesser extent.

[Alcarin]

well is not hard but last days is landing a lot og agas that kill us. Dispel dont work it gets resisted a lot, brd well the times we tried this is without a brd.

Anyway, yesterdy we tried arrapago

mnk x 2
brd
whm
rdm
thf

rng
war

i equip the first pt,

We lost =(, all was good, we bring it down to 12%, and mages end up without mp, and the AC was spaming a lot of aoes and mortal revolutions.

Do you use march songs on this megaboss? or wassup? we spent like 15 mins on megaboss striaght tanking 2 mnks, we start with 2 monks 2 hour, then in 50% war went in 2 hour WS, and then we just keep the 2 mnks hitting. till our mp was out. 1 min before zone kick us lol.

I really dont know how ppl kill it in less than 10 mins. with 6 ppl.

[Neosutra]

I dont do flayers w/o a brd.

Hell, I dont do salvage w/o a brd.

As for the boss:

1. Did your mnks have weapons/str unlocked?

2. Where you using bio or dia?


Just 2 mnks meleeing and -nothing- else should have the chariot dead in 10 min, 15 if no weapons/str.

Make the war come blm or some other job and reduce the number of melee that need weapons. Try and work it so you only have to farm 1 weapon (3 total with chest,1 for thf, 2 for mnks). One more weapon doesnt sound like much but half the time we do Arrapoga we get 0-1 weapons from the entire NW wing and thats with TH3-4, so its not reliable.

Flayer: Just use brd to dispel MAB and spikes and reapply shell after AoE dispelga.

Boss: Have your mnks unlocked weapons at least, if they got str then super. I prefer dia on bosses to speed up the kill, but if your tanks are getting rocked you can switch to bio. Also, I dont personally recommend counterstance on this boss as his Mortal Revolution is Physical and will rock your world if it takes your last shadow and hits you with 40 defense. Also, save your 2 hours till the last 25-30% (stack with feint, soul voice, dia3) and kill it quickly in last % to avoid TP spam, there is no real reason to burn them at start.

[Alcarin]

mm sounds good.

We did 2 hour because is aw in posts mnks starts with 2 hjour, but you are right maybe that last 25% we had trouble we coulda use 2 hours and kill it =(


yes our monks had DEX, AGI and STR unlocked weapons too.

Our brd use march x 2 soilvoice at start

I think that was our mistake maybe.

And you know what i think i only use dia once lol, i was soo stress about the healing that i forgot do keep dia on.

Thanks fo ryour suggestions

[Neosutra]

mm sounds good.

We did 2 hour because is aw in posts mnks starts with 2 hjour, but you are right maybe that last 25% we had trouble we coulda use 2 hours and kill it =(


yes our monks had DEX, AGI and STR unlocked weapons too.

Our brd use march x 2 soilvoice at start

I think that was our mistake maybe.

And you know what i think i only use dia once lol, i was soo stress about the healing that i forgot do keep dia on.

Thanks fo ryour suggestions

Ya, no real reason to use soul voice at start because:

1. Your not going to be hurting on mp at the start and thus you waste that added mp regen the mages could have needed later on.

2. When you do use soul voice, use Minuet, or at least Minuet/march, they mnks can survive just fine for 45 seconds with just haste/gear, and march doesnt really add anything to hundred fists.

Take your time starting the fight. Get March/madrigal on your tanks and let them get some hate just meleeing, they can pop counterstance just for emnity spike at start then cancel it. While your tanks are starting out, just take that time to put your debuffs on the boss. Dia2, para2, blind, slow2, elegy (slow2+elegy <3), poison, and any other DoT you have (blm or blu DoT). Once all your enfeebles are up, mages can basically just relax and cure/paralyna.

Each TP move by the boss should only do about 300 damage, and this should be the only damage your tanks are every taking (make sure they are casting utsu the moment they see TP animation so there shadows are up as soon as they are wiped, thus they are never getting hit). Add to this good mnks that know how to trade hate and your golden. Reapply debuffs so your tanks are fighting the weakest boss possible at all times and the fight will go smoothly.

Slow and smooth start will leave you with a smooth kill and all your 2 hours in reserve for emergency or to speed up last 25%.

edit: Also, after about 10% of the fight, your whm can even start tossing in some Flashes to help the mnks out and maybe even catch a Mortal Revolution. Unless the whm isnt wearing any -emn or the tanks are having to be spam cured, they shouldnt take hate. A good whm can get comfortable with how fast he boss is gaining TP and flash in regular intervals to better the chances of MR missing most of its hits.

Also: Penance, have your mnks max this <3 Alternate chi blasts with full penance and the fights are even easier.