Salvage - Arrapago Remnants - thread 2

[aurik]

+18 dmg on top of 35 base is way more than a 20% boost

Perhaps I just misunderstand H2H base damage, I thought the +18 damage was added to the "total" h2h base (i.e 35X2 = 70) yeilding you 88 base damage, split between 2 hands. 18/70 = 25% boost.

Or is it calculated as +18 to each hand O.o, yeilding 18X2 + 70 or 106 base damage per attack round (split between 2 fists).

It's +18 per hand, so with destroyers/merits, swinging twice for 53 base every 348 base delay.

[Judai]

Not to leave out the +6% Crits for each hand. It's not as noticable on 1st Floor mobs because they have like no defence. Before the crate update though it made a huge difference if one of our MNKs didn't get an Incus on higher floors. The damage difference is very big later on.

Generally, Incus cells drop pretty fast in all zones so we just gear our Monks completely before anyone else as it's easier and we want to make sure they are ready for later floors and the Bosses. Saves MP with just our 2 Monks tanking everything and seems to speed things up for us. The only time someone else gets a Incus before the Monks is when our one Ridill WAR gets to come WAR.

It really shouldn't matter and either way you do it, it shouldn't be a big difference in time. in almost every zone you get those 3rd and 4th+ incus within the first 5-10m. If giving your other melee Incus first somehow cuts 5m off your time, you need new Monks or something.

For the people trying to grasp the difference in Destroyers and Bare Hands~ Would you rather your main WAR DD be using Wood/Man or Tungi/Franny, that's pretty much the difference in 18 DMG on your Axes.

[Neosutra]

For the people trying to grasp the difference in Destroyers and Bare Hands~ Would you rather your main WAR DD be using Wood/Man or Tungi/Franny, that's pretty much the difference in 18 DMG on your Axes.

You leave out the part where instead of having one wood/man war, you have a tungi/franny war and another melee with an A skill weapon.

[Uzor]

I, too, prefer giving weapons to my 2 main MNK's before giving it to other melees. It normally speeds it up a lot better then giving MNK + melee, or meleex2 first. Weapons drop early on in all zones, anyway, but I just prefer doing it this way first. Especially due to Counterstance.

[Judai]

For the people trying to grasp the difference in Destroyers and Bare Hands~ Would you rather your main WAR DD be using Wood/Man or Tungi/Franny, that's pretty much the difference in 18 DMG on your Axes.

You leave out the part where instead of having one wood/man war, you have a tungi/franny war and another melee with an A skill weapon.

Except that had nothing to do with my point? I was simply showing the difference in 18D on a different set of weapons so people would understand. I already said that whether you give your Monks or your other DD the first set of Incus it really shouldn't be a big difference since in most runs you get the next Incus in 5-10m.

btw, you also leave out the fact that along with that Wood/Man WAR you prolly also have melee with a A/B/C skill weapon! Since most people bring a MNKs, WARs, THFs or NINs. Otherwise, it's pretty fucking moot about who gets the first fucking Incus cells and the situation wouldn't even apply to this discussion.

There isn't a very big differece in the two options, is there! Of course we can then get into the fact that in one situation the Melee with the better weapons can also use Abilities and WS and in the other situation the Melee with the better weapons is only meleeing.

Please, before you comment on my posts, read them completely.

[Neosutra]

For the people trying to grasp the difference in Destroyers and Bare Hands~ Would you rather your main WAR DD be using Wood/Man or Tungi/Franny, that's pretty much the difference in 18 DMG on your Axes.

You leave out the part where instead of having one wood/man war, you have a tungi/franny war and another melee with an A skill weapon.

Except that had nothing to do with my point? I was simply showing the difference in 18D on a different set of weapons so people would understand. I already said that whether you give your Monks or your other DD the first set of Incus it really shouldn't be a big difference since in most runs you get the next Incus in 5-10m.

btw, you also leave out the fact that along with that Wood/Man WAR you prolly also have melee with a A/B/C skill weapon! Since most people bring a MNKs, WARs, THFs or NINs. Otherwise, it's pretty fucking moot about who gets the first fucking Incus cells and the situation wouldn't even apply to this discussion.

There isn't a very big differece in the two options, is there! Of course we can then get into the fact that in one situation the Melee with the better weapons can also use Abilities and WS and in the other situation the Melee with the better weapons is only meleeing.

Please, before you comment on my posts, read them completely.

Perhaps you should learn to read yourself and see that the entire discussion here was which option gave the best efficiency. And while you attempted to justify it via that comparison, you leave out the main part of the boost on the other melee.

If your only purpose was to "help" us grasp the difference between 18 base damage then you are a bit obtuse to assume we havent considered that.

[Judai]

Considering you yourself didn't fully understand the difference in adding Destroyers and others didn't understand how much the boost in damage would be, I think my simplistic explanation fit in fine. I did not use it in any way to try to prove/disprove anyone's theories or ideas on how or why they give whoever the first 2 Incus Cells..

As I quite clearly stated, either way would work fine and neither way should matter, seeing as it's all a moot point 5m into the raid when you get the next Incus Cell. If you lose any significant time in the first 5-10m because you gave the wrong DD an Incus Cell, you really need to work on alot of other things.

Keep grasping at things that aren't in my posts and trying to add words to me explanations and points.

If you really thought the following;

+18 dmg on top of 35 base is way more than a 20% boost

Perhaps I just misunderstand H2H base damage, I thought the +18 damage was added to the "total" h2h base (i.e 35X2 = 70) yeilding you 88 base damage, split between 2 hands. 18/70 = 25% boost.

Or is it calculated as +18 to each hand O.o, yeilding 18X2 + 70 or 106 base damage per attack round (split between 2 fists).

then you are obviously obtuse yourself and didn't actually know what the difference in damage was. Excuse me for showing an example that leaves the math out of it and shows you the exact difference if you applied it to another job's weapons.

How about you simply stop attempting to over analyze my posts and add words and meaning into things that were simply and plainly stated. I quite clearly stated my comparison was simply for those trying to grasp the difference between Destoryers and Bare hands.

Shit is situational, give whoever cells. It's not like it was back in the early days when you only got a few Incus. Now, with the starting crate, our melee usually all have weapons within 10-15m or so into the raid.

[Neosutra]

Because actual math numbers do mean something and trivial comparisons to different weapon sets dont.

But thanx for the info.

"Hey guyz its like a melee that has weapons, but is using lower damage ones, god why cant yall see that".

[Judai]

+18 dmg on top of 35 base is way more than a 20% boost

Perhaps I just misunderstand H2H base damage, I thought the +18 damage was added to the "total" h2h base (i.e 35X2 = 70) yeilding you 88 base damage, split between 2 hands. 18/70 = 25% boost.

Or is it calculated as +18 to each hand O.o, yeilding 18X2 + 70 or 106 base damage per attack round (split between 2 fists).

Either way, i would still put forth that experience shows any other decent melee getting weapons > mnk getting 18 base increase. But I can definately see your logic in just gearing up the mnks for efficiency in hate and making sure they are geared for the NMs/Bosses, as there have been a few times one of our mnks didnt get a weapon (i.e not one weapon drop in the zone after clearing every qutrub).

Please correct my above % logic, as I know you are more familiar with that then I.

Hay guyz, it's like I don't have a fucking clue how H2H damage calculations work! Do you get the bonus on one hand or both, cause like I know you swing with both hands but I don't see why you would get a bonus on each hand! Not to mention the fact that you get the 6% Crit on each hand, should have been a pretty big tipoff on how H2H works.

Math doesn't help much when you don't understand the formulas. Maybe a simpler explanation and example will help, oh wait you don't like simple do you.

You obviously are just arguing for the sake of arguing and it's pretty obvious my original point was lost on you.

[Thefrost]

I give first incus to my cor cause he's a pirate.

[fishstix]

just do what works for your group...

[Neosutra]

+18 dmg on top of 35 base is way more than a 20% boost

Perhaps I just misunderstand H2H base damage, I thought the +18 damage was added to the "total" h2h base (i.e 35X2 = 70) yeilding you 88 base damage, split between 2 hands. 18/70 = 25% boost.

Or is it calculated as +18 to each hand O.o, yeilding 18X2 + 70 or 106 base damage per attack round (split between 2 fists).

Either way, i would still put forth that experience shows any other decent melee getting weapons > mnk getting 18 base increase. But I can definately see your logic in just gearing up the mnks for efficiency in hate and making sure they are geared for the NMs/Bosses, as there have been a few times one of our mnks didnt get a weapon (i.e not one weapon drop in the zone after clearing every qutrub).

Please correct my above % logic, as I know you are more familiar with that then I.

Hay guyz, it's like I don't have a fucking clue how H2H damage calculations work! Do you get the bonus on one hand or both, cause like I know you swing with both hands but I don't see why you would get a bonus on each hand! Not to mention the fact that you get the 6% Crit on each hand, should have been a pretty big tipoff on how H2H works.

Math doesn't help much when you don't understand the formulas. Maybe a simpler explanation and example will help, oh wait you don't like simple do you.

You obviously are just arguing for the sake of arguing and it's pretty obvious my original point was lost on you.

Because me asking a question on the base damage formula is equivalent to you being a jackass?

I was looking for actual numbers on base damage increase vs. damage % boost, and how it reflected via the h2h base damage calculation. You gave me a childs analogy then acted like an ass about it, just like you are continuing to act like an ass.

[Judai]

The funny thing is, my comment wasn't even directed at you. You just took it on yourself to read into some tagent where I was being an ass to you. Keep trying to backtrack and say whatever you want to say.

My comment was simple and wasn't me making fun of you. It was showing a basic example for everyone, not just you!, who didn't understand the DMG boost. You didn't actually understand how h2h was calculated to begin with. So why make things more complicated?

I only "became a jackass" after you started twisting my words into something else and acting like I was using info to back the claims I never even made. Stop imagining some fued between us because it's getting pretty annoying. In both threads you quoted me and replied with something that didn't have anything to do with my point.

Just because you try to use math equations and big words doesn't mean you explained anything properly or that you are in fact any smarter. Sometimes the most complicated things can be explained by a simple analogy.

[Neosutra]

The funny thing is, my comment wasn't even directed at you. You just took it on yourself to read into some tagent where I was being an ass to you. Keep trying to backtrack and say whatever you want to say.

My comment was simple and wasn't me making fun of you. It was showing a basic example for everyone, not just you!, who didn't understand the DMG boost. You didn't actually understand how h2h was calculated to begin with. So why make things more complicated?

I only "became a jackass" after you started twisting my words into something else and acting like I was using info to back the claims I never even made. Stop imagining some fued between us because it's getting pretty annoying. In both threads you quoted me and replied with something that didn't have anything to do with my point.

Just because you try to use math equations and big words doesn't mean you explained anything properly or that you are in fact any smarter. Sometimes the most complicated things can be explained by a simple analogy.

I was more referring to your comment of "learn to read".

But it is morning now and I am eating waffles, so no real interest in continuing a fruitless argument. <3 Waffles.

[Damane]

our run today... as allways in every run since 3 months no lvl 35 gear drop... did go boss since was enough time left and the boss drops...............
2x ares feet which noone is after at, free lot even the boss refuses to drop what we want

its frustrateing me 3 months so many runs and only 5 lvl 35 pieces... then I see pics of other people that get 2-4 drops per run >.<

[Geneyus]

The real question Judai, is why doesn't that warrior have a Ridill?

[Kaylia]

The real question Judai, is why doesn't that warrior have a Ridill?

I has a Ridill ^__^ Judai doesnt have such problem.

[Geneyus]

I has a Ridill too! Go us!

[Lordwafik]

<3 Waffles.

Awww <3 you too.












Oh, you meant the food

[Valyana]

For a MNK with full H2H merits, Destroyers should be about a 37% increase in DPS:

(32+3)*2*60/300 = 14 dps
(32+3+18)*2*60/(300+48)*1.05 = 19.19 dps

Figuring the +6% crit works out to about +5% damage over time.

19.19/14 = 1.37

Note that a bare fisted MNK has higher DPS than Mandau. Is my math wrong somewhere?

Oh, and bump back to first page.