Salvage - Arrapago Remnants - thread 2

[Lilswitche]

Did another Arrapago tonite, and same findings as my last run. We killed a total of 15 Qutrub and 6 Lamia, 10 Qutrub from the NW wing, the 4 on the SW inner room, and we accidently pulled an extra qutrub from the SW wing.

Went to the skellies after and everyone was able to get waist/hp unlocked (group of 7) without even needing to clear the whole SE wing. We got 2 STR, 2 VIT, and 4 INT as well.

I find it extremely odd that mimic'ing our last run's mobs did yet again yield high drop rates from the skellies. I just want to reiterate that all previous runs I had ever done, we normally wouldn't clear all the lamia from the NW wing, nor would we kill that many Qutrub. At this point, I'm fairly convinced the skelly drop rate is affected by something you do with the western side of the map.

[Slott]

Did another Arrapago tonite, and same findings as my last run. We killed a total of 15 Qutrub and 6 Lamia, 10 Qutrub from the NW wing, the 4 on the SW inner room, and we accidently pulled an extra qutrub from the SW wing.

Went to the skellies after and everyone was able to get waist/hp unlocked (group of 7) without even needing to clear the whole SE wing. We got 2 STR, 2 VIT, and 4 INT as well.

I find it extremely odd that mimic'ing our last run's mobs did yet again yield high drop rates from the skellies. I just want to reiterate that all previous runs I had ever done, we normally wouldn't clear all the lamia from the NW wing, nor would we kill that many Qutrub. At this point, I'm fairly convinced the skelly drop rate is affected by something you do with the western side of the map.

We've been doing that path for months, and never ever have problems getting HP or belts.

[Kaeko]

Really sorry if something similar to this has been said before, but I was able to solo the Archaic Chariot on 5F in 18 minutes with a SCH/RDM in the portal room. I had unlocked - ability, magic, SJ, weapon, jewelry, body, and feet/legs. Was never supposed to be a solo but the other 2 on the run died in really bad spots with very bad time left so I went ahead and tried on a last ditch effort.

Basically, the room with the portal to 6F has the portal and 4 pillars. Pillars impede sight, so you can't see/cast on things behind it. The chariot is sight tracking apparently because as I kited around the pillars, he would lose aggro very easily. I basically kept Bio II on then when it deaggroed (about once every 60 seconds), I quickly used Parsimony + Blizzard IV, which did about 630 damage (chariot has 15000). I started the fight around 300 MP (fast pull because I had a clean look) and was able to maintain 3 MP/tick refresh (body, ring, sanction). Using Parsimony, I was able to kill it before actually running out. Couldn't use Sublimation because you need the HP cell for that to work.

The pillars also make the chariot run very long turns since it's bulky, very good kite space. The SCH nuking efficiency thing really helped for this.

[fishstix]

really amazing SCH stuff

I self-duo'd the QQths and had some extra time on my hands, so tried this out as rdm/X (lost SJ cell due to inventory drama). I was able to get the chariot down to 91% with bio2 and poison2 alone, but kept dying :/ I have trouble kiting around the pillars. I think in the other solo/duo post, it was calculated that bio2/poison2 by itself would be a 50 minute kill, so what you did is pretty cool :O

[Kaeko]

really amazing SCH stuff

I self-duo'd the QQths and had some extra time on my hands, so tried this out as rdm/X (lost SJ cell due to inventory drama). I was able to get the chariot down to 91% with bio2 and poison2 alone, but kept dying :/ I have trouble kiting around the pillars. I think in the other solo/duo post, it was calculated that bio2/poison2 by itself would be a 50 minute kill, so what you did is pretty cool :O

I found it impossible to kite w/o movement speed +12% and promptly died w/o it the first time we tried this (with 3). It also has very fast building resist to bind and gravity, so you can't rely on those for more than maybe 4-5 uses. If you get stratus cell I think it becomes rather easy though.

[Jem]

On the subject of killing X amount of Qutrubs supposedly increases the drop rate on the Skeles. Is it possible that there is a random Qutrub each run that when it's killed increases the drop rate for the whole floor or maybe just skeles? That would then be kind of like the random Merrow/Lamia popping the Rampart.

I don't know if anyone is compiling information but I can give you the data from my run last night. No idea of moonphase, time, day, etc but entered at 17:59 GMT yesterday.

15 Qutrubs (NW Wing minus 2 in G-7 + 4 in G-9 room) - 5 Incus, 1 Cast
9 Lamia/Merrow (BLM x2, RNG x2, SMN, COR, RDM, SAM, BRD) - 4 Prae, 1 Spiss, 2 Opacus, 2 Undulatus
9 Reserve Draugar - 5 Humilus, 2 Velum, 6 Pannus, 7 Cirro, 0 Nimbus

By far our best run drop wise on the 1F, it was the first time I've ever seen a double cell drop on a Qutrub. Pity no NM's put out 35 wise. Had TH3 if it matters.


EDIT: Doubt it matters but starting chest was: Incus x2, Prae, Dup, Opacus x2, Undulatus, Cumulus, Congestus x2

[Aemora]

Ewwwww, Double Vit chest :<

Our last... Idk, chests for the last month have yielded 2 JAs, and it's reaaaaaaaaaaaly pissing me off now :<

Just saying I'd prefer Magic > JA

[Judai]

Ewwwww, Double Vit chest :<

Our last... Idk, chests for the last month have yielded 2 JAs, and it's reaaaaaaaaaaaly pissing me off now :<

Just saying I'd prefer Magic > JA

Personally I like 2 /ja since 2 of the next 5 mobs we kill can drop Magic and the next /ja chance isn't for 10+ mobs. 2 VIT sucks though, lol. Any combo of Legs/Body/Rings/STR/Belt is own.

[Kaylia]

Str/Body is my favorite. Double my damage on first floor when I get.

Vit in first chest isnt that bad (especially if none drop on ghost), it reduces dmg taken by a lot early and you can aggro everything without causing trouble.

[LordBane]

On the subject of killing X amount of Qutrubs supposedly increases the drop rate on the Skeles. Is it possible that there is a random Qutrub each run that when it's killed increases the drop rate for the whole floor or maybe just skeles? That would then be kind of like the random Merrow/Lamia popping the Rampart.

This would be entirely difficult to test, not even sure why anyone would want to go down this path to speculate about. I believe in the x #qutrub kill, never had a prob getting enough hp on 1F doing this. Even -if- it is a random qutrub, by killing 15-17 of those mofos (b/c of the path we do), i'm 90% positive i killed the bastid.

But hey, if you wanna test it, go right ahead. I got QQs to kill and QQ about.

[Jem]

On the subject of killing X amount of Qutrubs supposedly increases the drop rate on the Skeles. Is it possible that there is a random Qutrub each run that when it's killed increases the drop rate for the whole floor or maybe just skeles? That would then be kind of like the random Merrow/Lamia popping the Rampart.

This would be entirely difficult to test, not even sure why anyone would want to go down this path to speculate about. I believe in the x #qutrub kill, never had a prob getting enough hp on 1F doing this. Even -if- it is a random qutrub, by killing 15-17 of those mofos (b/c of the path we do), i'm 90% positive i killed the bastid.

But hey, if you wanna test it, go right ahead. I got QQs to kill and QQ about.

I agree it would be very hard to test. I don't care too much about it myself personally as I'll keep using the same strategy for Arra until it becomes obvious there's a better one. The only reason I tossed it out there is because it could explain why some people get shafted on drops when clearing out loads of Qutrubs whilst others get good drop rates when only killing a handful of Qutrubs. Well that or the random number generator =/

[Zhais]

Question on boss:

How long does it usually take other groups to kill it and with what setup/debuffs on the boss?

Got up to boss floor with 10 mins left after QQTHx2, bhoot and chariot (still have yet to EVER pop 6f qqth... /sigh). Had mnk thf nin whm rdm brd and blm on that floor, and a second mnk that had to leave after chariot.

Had the mnk 2hr + drinks at the start, but still ended up with about 50% left when we timed out

[Iced]

With me on MNK and other DD we have depending, with NIN about 17mins, our other MNK when he don't have to come THF about 15mins, but we don't have 2hrs for this. 2hrs should be used for 6th and only time you should have your 2hr up is if your capped on Macha's coat and just doing a 25 run. We also have our RDM with MP permitting, nuke to help out. March/Minuet, Slow II, Para II, Elegy as usual. You can Ichi tank it for the most part, saving Ni for when you see its about to use Mortal Revolution. Its not too hard, had to solo tank it last time on MNK due to us getting hosed on Magic.

[Wizerd]

With me on MNK and other DD we have depending, with NIN about 17mins, our other MNK when he don't have to come THF about 15mins, but we don't have 2hrs for this. 2hrs should be used for 6th and only time you should have your 2hr up is if your capped on Macha's coat and just doing a 25 run. We also have our RDM with MP permitting, nuke to help out. March/Minuet, Slow II, Para II, Elegy as usual. You can Ichi tank it for the most part, saving Ni for when you see its about to use Mortal Revolution. Its not too hard, had to solo tank it last time on MNK due to us getting hosed on Magic.

Your 2hrs will be up after 6F if your DDs are good enough and have SV songs on the whole floor. We usually track the time and try to pull the Ramparts early. That way, if it pops a reinforcement or two, we know to pull out our 2hrs to make sure the job gets done. If no trees, then we almost never need them.

Without 2hr, I would say our time on AC nowadays is about 12-13min. I don't usually engage it after the 10min mark. That's usually MNK MNK tanking, although it tends to go slightly faster if we happen to have a BLM with us and the second tank is a WAR or DRK. Skillchain/MB on the chariots actually helps out quite a bit, but only when the skillchaining weapon skills don't suck.

[Iced]

With our 6 and only having 1 MNK at the time with NIN and THF as other DD on 6th floor, I use my 2hr for Ramparts to hopefully avoid them popping out trees. It all depends on what you go with, us its usually MNK, NIN(or MNK depending on who shows up), THF, RDM, WHM and BRD. I was referring to why would they have their 2hr's up for the Mega Boss if they are struggling to pop 6FL rats, they should be using them there if they can't to speed things up for their group. I would rather blow my 2hr on 6FL and popping the rats then use it on AC.

BTW, our DD are more then good enough, its just to point of making sure we don't get Trees and we can easily complete AC once we are done with 6FL rats. Its a matter of preference. Either way your still saving the same amount of time over the course of the run, whether you use your 2hrs on the 6FL or the Boss.

But if people are struggling to clear the 6FL in 7mins still, they should be using their 2hrs for that floor and not the boss. 2 extra shots at Macha's > AC drops.

[Shassira]

Question on boss:

How long does it usually take other groups to kill it and with what setup/debuffs on the boss?

Got up to boss floor with 10 mins left after QQTHx2, bhoot and chariot (still have yet to EVER pop 6f qqth... /sigh). Had mnk thf nin whm rdm brd and blm on that floor, and a second mnk that had to leave after chariot.

Had the mnk 2hr + drinks at the start, but still ended up with about 50% left when we timed out

Instead of giving you show off numbers, i'm gonna try to give you some advice that may help.

We used to take over 10 minutes on this boss even with 2hours, which was really annoying when trying to target most NMs. In general, I like to allocate 12 minutes for each boss, no matter which, usualy being 10 minutes for kill and then 2 minutes to sort drops. LAC sometimes could take 2-3 minutes more due to the obvious waste of time charm can be. So we figured why we were taking so long for AC... we used to do this boss without STR cells and the impact is massive over time.

Sometimes when you get lucky these drop from the 1F skeletons or the coffer, but most of the time you are likely to not see a single STR unless you specificaly hunt for it. The STR cells we've been targeting are the ones droped by Gobbue reinforcements on 5F, from the doors on the same room as the charriot. Basicly we just TP on the door till it pops a gobbue, kill the gobbue which should drop two STR cells and warp up.

Maybe the reason you took so long could be tied to this. We usualy do Arrapago now with 6 (mnk, mnk, thf, brd, whm, rdm) and target QQAx2, QQTHx2, Bhoot, Charriot and Boss. We don't bother bringing any stunner as two mnks with SJ are perfect for the bhoot. Even if a perdition happens to land (which is unlikely, just keep TP), the second mnk can just carry over and finish the bhoot alone. Under my view bringing more than 6 people is a waste unless there's really no more choice (i'd rather send a group of 4 to somewhere easy where they can farm).

If you did have STR unlocked, then probably it was just the choice of melee on the charriot. In my experience this charriot is quite defensive (i guess the name gives a clue? >>; ), so maybe a Nin wouldn't be as atractive as another mnk could be. Personaly i find NIN pointless for salvage, but i'm aware not everyone shares the same views. If you can't get a second mnk, something like WAR, SAM or DRK are good side tanks for charriots. The combination of MNK + SAM is excelent if you make your tanks skill chain (yeah, the lost art o.o ) and if your mnk is capable of solo tanking most of the fight (this might need a rather pimped MNK, i really can't say for sure).

Also, to finish:

But if people are struggling to clear the 6FL in 7mins still, they should be using their 2hrs for that floor and not the boss. 2 extra shots at Macha's > AC drops.

For you. I'm sure you can imagine different groups may have different priorities, right? Good.

[Iced]

But if people are struggling to clear the 6FL in 7mins still, they should be using their 2hrs for that floor and not the boss. 2 extra shots at Macha's > AC drops.

For you. I'm sure you can imagine different groups may have different priorities, right? Good.

Obliviously since he stated that they haven't been able to pop the 6FL rats and by me saying that they SHOULD USE THEIR 2HR'S to help speed it up with the hopes of them popping said rats, I am in the wrong? Apparently by me seeing that are trying to pop the rats, I guess my assumption that they believe Macha's > AC drops, because if said condition wasn't correct, why waste time trying only to time out on AC. If said condition wasn't correct, I am sure they are smart enough to realize that skipping 6FL would in turn give them a better opportunity to kill AC for his wonderful drops, right? Good!

[Kaylia]

No point not zering the 6th floor if you're able. Time is rarely an issue in arrapago...actually, it's probably the easiest zone of the 4.

[Iced]

Never said you had to zerg it, was just stating that you save almost the same amount of time if you use your 2hrs on the 6FL or the Mega Boss.

Question on boss:

How long does it usually take other groups to kill it and with what setup/debuffs on the boss?

Got up to boss floor with 10 mins left after QQTHx2, bhoot and chariot (still have yet to EVER pop 6f qqth... /sigh). Had mnk thf nin whm rdm brd and blm on that floor, and a second mnk that had to leave after chariot.

Had the mnk 2hr + drinks at the start, but still ended up with about 50% left when we timed out

This is why I stated they should be using their 2hrs on the 6FL. Since they haven't popped the 6FL rats, but then remark how they opened up on AC with their MNK 2hr + drinks, I suggested it might benefit them to use their 2hrs on the 6FL to help cut down on their kill time on the floor and pop the rats.

[Zhais]

usually can't pop it even with a single mnk 2hr.... we pull mobs in plenty of time, but still need to work out the kinks I guess. That and I usually almost never seem to be able to get ability on that floor for SV songs.

Thanks for the info tho I think maybe on the times we can't kill bhoot due to only one sj is when we will easily have time for boss.