What does Kurayami do?

[Tachys]

I am currently a lvl 66 Ninja. I was basically asking this to determine if Kurayami will do anything on a DD build.

I been comparing evasion vs. DD build and evasion build seriously fails.

It seems that I just evade 1-2 times a fight mostly with evasion build.

Sometimes I get 4-5 but that is rare, of course sometimes I don't evade at all.

On the other hand the damage increase from DD build is very significant, and is much better for holding hate.

Here are differences between my evasion and DD builds.

Emperor Hairpin -- Voyager Sallet
Scorpion Harness -- Haubergeon
Storm Manopolas -- Ochiudo's Kote
Ninja Hakama -- Royal Knight Breeches
Evasion Torque -- Peacock Charm
Evasion Earring -- Coral Earring
Velocity Earring -- Coral Earring

So this gives me 10 Accuracy 10 Str 8 Dex and over 40 attack, oh I also lose 85 evasion.

[Sci]

Any testing on kurayami without the accuracy formula would have involved a lot of guesswork considering the accuracy vs effective accuracy relationship was poorly understood. Blinding the mob is obviously useful any time its accuracy won't remain at 95% while blinded, which is most of the time. Its not gonna say "blind makes the mob miss" but it'll still cause it to happen. Even a PLD will have a better than 5% evasion chance against stuff that isn't too high level, and stacked with a reasonably quick Flash stream, it will improve the miss rate regardless of the mob.

Whether it is a static accuracy reduction or a percentage reduction could be tested easily by a NIN, in 2 phases. Pick a set of gear to have a set amount of evasion, aggro an EM Steelshell, let it attack you for say 30mins while parsing its accuracy. Then cast Kurayami and keep it on for the next 30 minutes, compare the result. This will tell you the amount of accuracy lost (2 * % difference). Repeat the same test on a Robber Crab, see if the difference is the same amount or less in % (make sure your evasion isn't so high it's accuracy rate will hit bottom cap while blinded or results will be useless).

And no, I'm not going to test it myself, at least not for a really long time.

The method I haven't tried but have been interested in for testing Blind spells involves Yovras. The only sure measurement of accuracy we can do is players vs monsters through check. It would be pretty simple to get someone charmed, then quickly cast Blind/Blind II/Kurayami on them to measure the -accuracy of each. And the results can be compared to something like a BLM Aern casting blind on a player, and a Mamool NIN type casting Kurayami. Just to make sure the equations don't get all weird when casting on charmed players. Keeping in mind that the results should be slightly different thanks to different INT levels.

[Mashu]

*holy shit necro bump*

Figured I'd bump this thread rather than start a new one...

Did testing via Colibri and its reflect, and found Kurayami: Ni to be -30 accuracy, as my THF friend needed to gear +48 acc in gear with Kurayami on for the Colibri to check normal evasion as compared to just +18 acc before he had Kurayami. In comparison, Blind I is -25 accuracy (I was NIN/BLM for warp, with 105 enfeebling mag and no +INT gear, so it might be better if we had a RDM's Blind? Iunno, going to test that today). We don't have a RDM with Blind II merited at all in my LS, but I wouldn't be surprised if level 1 Blind II was -30 acc, and increased by 5 / merit.

We're actually trying to find a way to find the answer to the age old question.. what matters most in an evasion build? ~ evasion, evasion skill or agility. Does losing 30 accuracy via Kurayami: Ni effectively give the target +30 evasion? Or is it not as straightforward as that? And if not, it's probably a messy algebraic equation we've grown accustomed to from SE factoring in those 3 variables. ; ;

[ringthree]

Wow, a good necro bump.

This information should be wikified.

[VZX]

Wow, a good necro bump.

This information should be wikified.

done and done.

Can somebody put the reference there without fucking up the layout?

[Bagel]

Fucking hell I got rukerolled.

[levish]

Very nice to put numbers onto it, icing on the cake would be testing with +skill/int gear to see if it varies or if is a static -30 acc

Also in a normal DD setup you are missing a ton of Eva so doing nothing more than casting Kurayami: Ni will take you from 10% eva rate to 15-20% which while a improvement won't take you to the rates of evasion that evasion tanking will

/capn obvious mode off

Things you won't wear in DD setup (what I remember wearing when I did eva tank)
O hat +10
SH +10
Rasetsu Tekko +10
Eva Earrings +10 for the pair
Nin hakama +10
Scouter's Rope +10 or more I forget
Rasetsu Feets +5
Spirit something neck or evasion torque?

+70ish eva in eva setup vs -30ish for a net difference of -100 evasion in the DD gear I used

[Whatinthe]

Very nice to put numbers onto it, icing on the cake would be testing with +skill/int gear to see if it varies or if is a static -30 acc

All Ninjutsu are static values.

Ichi is -20
Ni is -30

Against Colibri Lv72(INT88) (ignore part about target INT, target MND is what affects blind potency - http://vanamon.blog53.fc2.com/blog-entry-23.html)
Blind -23
Blind II -34

http://vanamon.blog53.fc2.com/blog-entry-9.html

This had been Kenshoed last year.

Also, the cap for Blind and Blind II is -30 and -40 respectively, both requiring ?IM60, as per http://willatwill.blog87.fc2.com/blog-entry-173.html.

[Rocl]

Someone should test Flash now !

[BRP]

Did testing via Colibri and its reflect, and found Kurayami: Ni to be -30 accuracy, as my THF friend needed to gear +48 acc in gear with Kurayami on for the Colibri to check normal evasion as compared to just +18 acc before he had Kurayami. In comparison, Blind I is -25 accuracy (I was NIN/BLM for warp, with 105 enfeebling mag and no +INT gear, so it might be better if we had a RDM's Blind? Iunno, going to test that today). We don't have a RDM with Blind II merited at all in my LS, but I wouldn't be surprised if level 1 Blind II was -30 acc, and increased by 5 / merit.

Don't Colibri use their own stat/skill (as RDM at that)? Would kind of makes the test useless without a new control. Nice method though, Greater Colibri go? Or you can go to sea for some Jailer of Fort action.

EDIT: Just read Whatinthe 's post, nevermind.

[Mashu]

thanks for the blog, Whatinthe ^^

Don't Colibri use their own stat/skill (as RDM at that)? Would kind of makes the test useless without a new control. Nice method though, Greater Colibri go? Or you can go to sea for some Jailer of Fort action.

EDIT: Just read Whatinthe 's post, nevermind.

If you felt that a Colibri interfered with the potency of a spell, I could've brought a BRD along to sing Maiden's Virelai (Charm) and have that reflected, and just cast the Blind spells directly. Regardless, our tests were in vain since a JP already did them all.

[Delekii]

Did testing via Colibri and its reflect, and found Kurayami: Ni to be -30 accuracy, as my THF friend needed to gear +48 acc in gear with Kurayami on for the Colibri to check normal evasion as compared to just +18 acc before he had Kurayami. In comparison, Blind I is -25 accuracy (I was NIN/BLM for warp, with 105 enfeebling mag and no +INT gear, so it might be better if we had a RDM's Blind? Iunno, going to test that today). We don't have a RDM with Blind II merited at all in my LS, but I wouldn't be surprised if level 1 Blind II was -30 acc, and increased by 5 / merit.

Don't Colibri use their own stat/skill (as RDM at that)? Would kind of makes the test useless without a new control. Nice method though, Greater Colibri go? Or you can go to sea for some Jailer of Fort action.

EDIT: Just read Whatinthe 's post, nevermind.

Ninjutsu debuffs are static effect, so it should be fine.

[Septimus]

Very nice to put numbers onto it, icing on the cake would be testing with +skill/int gear to see if it varies or if is a static -30 acc

All Ninjutsu are static values.

Ichi is -20
Ni is -30

Against Colibri Lv72(INT88) (ignore part about target INT, target MND is what affects blind potency - http://vanamon.blog53.fc2.com/blog-entry-23.html)
Blind -23
Blind II -34

http://vanamon.blog53.fc2.com/blog-entry-9.html

This had been Kenshoed last year.

Also, the cap for Blind and Blind II is -30 and -40 respectively, both requiring ?IM60, as per http://willatwill.blog87.fc2.com/blog-entry-173.html.

That is interesting that it is an INT vs MND comparison for Blind potency. (Since Paralyze and Slow are MND vs MND comparisons.) But it does make me happy that you can get a little boost for Blind out of /DRK with Abs-MND. (It does wonders Paralyze on Proto-Ultima.)

[Kyreth]

Against Colibri Lv72(INT88) ignore part about target INT, target MND is what affects blind potencyhttp://vanamon.blog53.fc2.com/blog-entry-23.html)
Blind -23

Interesting. Blind (black magic spell) = MND for potency? You'd have thought INT.

Unless all Enfeebles are MND vs. MND for potency, not just the White spells (Para/Slow).

[Kyupi/Kij]

Against Colibri Lv72(INT88) ignore part about target INT, target MND is what affects blind potencyhttp://vanamon.blog53.fc2.com/blog-entry-23.html)
Blind -23

Interesting. Blind (black magic spell) = MND for potency? You'd have thought INT.

Unless all Enfeebles are MND vs. MND for potency, not just the White spells (Para/Slow).

The big formula for Blind in bold, in case anyone else decides to not look carefully, is (Caster INT - Target MND + 60) / 4. The bigger/better test is in the link at the top of the page, btw. (http://vanamon.blog53.fc2.com/blog-entry-18.html)

Side note: he said he didn't get a very large sample size for the Poltergeists.

[Kimiko]

Against Colibri Lv72(INT88) ignore part about target INT, target MND is what affects blind potencyhttp://vanamon.blog53.fc2.com/blog-entry-23.html)
Blind -23

Interesting. Blind (black magic spell) = MND for potency? You'd have thought INT.

Unless all Enfeebles are MND vs. MND for potency, not just the White spells (Para/Slow).

The big formula for Blind in bold, in case anyone else decides to not look carefully, is (Caster INT - Target MND + 60) / 4. The bigger/better test is in the link at the top of the page, btw. (http://vanamon.blog53.fc2.com/blog-entry-18.html)

Side note: he said he didn't get a very large sample size for the Poltergeists.

:elmer:

[chapstick]

Did you seriously just bump this from like 6 months ago just to do that face?

[Day]

This thread was linked in another recent thread. Kimi prolly didn't realize it was old as hell.

[Sekkite]

I'm thinking it removes a percentage, because if it didn't, it wouldn't be useful by the time you hit 75, and it still is. People who say that Kurayami isn't useful have never tried to EVA tank anything, I guess. And while that isn't as good as def tanking in most scenarios, it isn't useless.

A flat reduction would be worthwhile at all levels due to the way accuracy/evasion works in this game.

[Falisa]

To save people from posting in this thread without realizing its a necro, im giving it the lockdown.