wow ok wtf

[Senoska]

No, dude, it's not situational. There is no situation were it is okay to take away a civil liberty. I don't see why this is hard for you to grasp. They have NO RIGHT to do this, AT ALL. This is completely illegal and I'd be willing to bet if anyone gets taken to court for this the court case will be thrown out. You cannot search someone- DIGITALLY OR NOT, without a warrant. You can't do it, its an invasion of privacy. It's like someone having a picture (Real picture) of someone fucking a dog (Which is illegal.) and someone finds out, these person will be arrested and whatnot, but if they have it on their computer its okay? Does the computer and the internet have some large gray area for the law? No, if these people have it on their computer and someone finds out they will be arrested. The same goes for this, you cant come search my house, so why can you search my computer? This seems like a double standard to me.

Edit: While the example I gave above is proof of someone doing something illegal the same would go if they were just suspecting and had no just cause TO suspect. It is not a gray area nor is it situational.

[izembo]

except it's in no way similiar, but you're just going to be stubborn about it so there's no point in arguing with you.

monitoring what is viewed on the internet in no way harms you. doesn't effect you in the least. only way something might come of it is if you are indeed doing something illegal. then it's your own damn fault for getting caught. monitoring a digital medium is NOTHING.

[Octavious]

So about tracking internet usage. Do you download Torrents? of Anime/Movies/TV/Music? That's illegal too, yea but a high amount of people do it. Have people been prosecuted for downloading music/movies/tv? yes, they have too, because they've been caught by tracking their internet usage. Is this an invasion or privacy? yea, it's an intrusion uponyour civil liberties, but then again your doing something illegal and people want to complain because they got caught. This is almost like people who use Myspace/Facebook then bitch & whine when people don't hire them and/or fire them because of the pictures of underage drinking/company bashing on their blogs. Just because they're patroling the internet doesn't mean it's 1984. I don't put anything out on the internet I wouldn't want other people to read/see, so if your internet history is that important to you, then i don't really know what to say, lol. I don't give 2 shits from sunday if they check my history, and I still feel it's different then a blatent home invasion. It's the same liberty yes, but two completely different sceanarios.

edit#1: I just had a thought too, if you read a freelance newspapaer and it says someone is gathering people for atatcks on whomever blahblahblahetc is this an invasion of privacy because someone printed it and the police read it? Nothing different from anyone posting it or downloading it, or blogging it online?

[Senoska]

except it's in no way similiar, but you're just going to be stubborn about it so there's no point in arguing with you.

monitoring what is viewed on the internet in no way harms you. doesn't effect you in the least. only way something might come of it is if you are indeed doing something illegal. then it's your own damn fault for getting caught. monitoring a digital medium is NOTHING.

You're right im going to be stubborn about this because I view this as my rights and I don't like seeing them go. When th government has just cause to search someone they go to the judge present their evidence and the judge will issue a warrant, this bill allows them to skip by the judge and just search anyone they want, virtually or not.

[Senoska]

Posting on a blog is just that, posting, you make it public, my internet history as well as yours is your privacy. You have no need to disclose that to anyone. It's the same right and no, not two different scenarios its the same thing, people are ILLEGALLY using their power to search you. AGAIN I HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, I care because its my right to protect my privacy. Get off the fact "Well I have nothing to hide" ITS NOT ABOUT THAT!!!! Stop accusing me like I do have something to hide because I'm protecting my fucking rights. I don't care if you're hiding something or not, It's an illegal abuse of power and needs to be put to a stop.

[The Blackrose]

I had a response to all of this, but I think I'll let the armchair computer experts and lawyers (and strawmen) continue to go at it.

[Octavious]

The only reason I bring up facebook is because while you can set your profile to only let friends you've approved see your blog&pictures. Businesses can obtain accounts and go in and look at your profile if they wish to examine potential hires and they do background checks. This is why I say from the start I wouldn't do anything on the internet I wouldn't want people to see, just plain and simple. Internet is about as open source as they come. Between identity theft and fraud, things run rampent online already =/

[miokomioko]

This discussion keeps bringing up this question to me... is utilizing this form of communication/information exchange a right or a priveledge? Similar to those who bitch and moan about driving laws or having a driver's license revoked and such. Driving a car in the US is not a right. If this applies to the intarwebsuperhighway as well, then there's no discussion to be had.

[Senoska]

I had a response to all of this, but I think I'll let the armchair computer experts and lawyers (and strawmen) continue to go at it.

I don't think I need to be a lawyer to see the problems in this. It's common knowledge(Or fuck, I hope so).

[Viena]

I don't see it much different, people can have private/intimate conversations as they would in the real world over the Internet, people can send pictures and other media that could contain personal affairs over it. And it's not like there isn't tons of people who use the Internet for their sexual affairs.

A judge's approval used to be needed to track someone's phone line, or get in someone's home to get access to his documents. It looks like that doesn't matter anymore, at least in a medium that could contain the same type of data.

And I find quite funny the statement that being a digital medium makes it completely different. Let's put a video surveillance system at someone's house, but let's make it digital, that way it won't mean anything to him!

[Senoska]

This discussion keeps bringing up this question to me... is utilizing this form of communication/information exchange a right or a priveledge? Similar to those who bitch and moan about driving laws or having a driver's license revoked and such. Driving a car in the US is not a right. If this applies to the intarwebsuperhighway as well, then there's no discussion to be had.

The right to the internet is I assume considered a privilege but my privacy while using it is my right.

[Octavious]

right vs privilege idk which I would classify Internet Usage under. If it's considered a privilege then by the definition of privilege you have it granted to you "8. to grant a privilege to." Therefore you can also have it revoked jah?

side-edit: Sensoka's about to break 2k posts! Congrats

[The Blackrose]

This discussion keeps bringing up this question to me... is utilizing this form of communication/information exchange a right or a priveledge? Similar to those who bitch and moan about driving laws or having a driver's license revoked and such. Driving a car in the US is not a right. If this applies to the intarwebsuperhighway as well, then there's no discussion to be had.

The problem with your argument is you're not in contract with the govenrment for any sort of internet access (obviously avoiding if you work for any sort of governmental occupation, of course). The contract is between a user and and ISP (private entity), with the ISP making the terms of service. In this sense it could be considered a privledge, but it doesn't fall under the classical context of right/privledge because third parties can intervene in the process at any given time under a number of circumstances (which, coming back in full circle, includes the government).

[Maguspk]

If you're really selfish enough to think "omg they are going through my stuff this angers me", and can't view it as a positive way for the government to catch those are are committing crimes through the internet then I don't understand where you're coming from. Who the fuck cares if they have access to your internet history, you aren't fucking suspect to even be looked at unless some keyword triggers them to look more closely at your stuff. How full of yourself are you that you think the government cares about your 4chan posts and your ffxi screenshots?

It's like being searched before getting on an airplane. Barring the obvious racial profiling that goes on, you are being checked, down to your fucking bones, for the safety of yourself and others. If you're so adamant about making sure you are totally private about everything then don't use the internet. Being searched before walking onto a flight is no different than having your internet history tracked. Go QQ moar.

[Marius]

im not worried bout my rights.....

im worried bout the government guys laughing at me for the amount of porn i go through

[quannum]

the problem with being monitored by the government is that it puts you in a position of guilty till proven innocent which goes against the constitution.this has nothing to do with the private company that provides access for you. well if telecommunications was a free market economy it wouldnt. every time you access the internet, pretend there's a cop next to you saying "... anything you say can and will be used against you..." thats essentially what govt monitoring is. now if they have a case-by-case warrant, that's a different matter.

[Pyree]

I honestly don't care if them browsing my internet browsing doesn't directly hurt me. One thing leads to another, and before you know it they will be installing cameras into every room of our house.

I really don't care if someone else wants to see what websites I go to. If they want to read through the various forums, watch the random videos on youtube, and watch some legal gay porn, I really don't care. The reason I'm against this, though, is because this is not where the government will stop. We have our right to privacy, and the government is supposed to be protecting that right.

[izembo]

no, they really won't. this is completely unrelated. arguing on priciple alone is the most retarded kind of argument you can make.

[miokomioko]

I honestly don't care if them browsing my internet browsing doesn't directly hurt me. One thing leads to another, and before you know it they will be installing cameras into every room of our house.

One thing leads to another and before you know it, you have a slippery slope.

[Devek]

Lol.

I'm just gonna break it down to you. If you don't want someone reading something, don't write it down.

Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead.

The Internet doesn't change anything in this regard. When you send an email you trust several people.

a) You trust Microsoft (or your OS vendor) not to spy on you.
b) You trust your hardware manufacturer not to spy on you.
c) You trust your ISP not to spy on you.
d) You trust whoever runs your mail server not to spy on you.
e) You trust the receiving email server not to spy on you.
f) You trust the person receiving your mail's ISP not to spy on you.
g) You trust the person receiving your mail not to spy on you.
h) You trust Microsoft (or their OS vendor) not to spy on you.
i) You trust every router between you, your mail server, the receiving mail server, any other mail servers in the middle, and the person who receives your mail not to spy on you.
j-q) You trust all the people above to keep their computers, software, and equipment secure from millions of other people who want to spy on you.
r-y) You trust government agencies not to seize any equipment in the loop above in order to spy on you.

I'm not a fan of the government spying on the Internet but in the grand scheme of things they spy less than lets say, the Russian mafia who controls compromised servers numbering in the millions.

Those of us in the know can protect and secure our communications to a point, but the rest of you are screwed. When i'll be screaming is when the government tries to make encryption illegal.