Cure Calculations and forumulae

[Vryali]

None of this is my work, but I did a quick search and the only posts I saw from Furball were in the hello section, so I figured I should post a link to his data/webpage. He put in a lot of work finding out information about the various cures and it seems it should be a bit more public than just our forums (as it might be of interest to some folk if it's not already documented somewhere).

His words/summary:

Okay lots of you knew I was doing this and many of you helped me get it all done so here it finally is. Over a year ago I read this post on the WHM forums section. This got me into cure testing and I worked on figuring it all out off and on for the next year.

There's lots of info so this post only contains a few select items from my cure guide. If you don't mind information overload and want to know where I came up with all this stuff (plus other stuff) go take a look (hopefully my ISP doesn't die on me). It is a long read though so if you don't care about the details you can just take a look at my cure calculator instead.


Cure Formula
http://members.shaw.ca/pizza_steve/cure/Cure_Final.png



Things to know about cures
- One Mind is as effective as 3 Vitality
- One Mind is about effective as 5 Healing Skill
- Healing Skill only affects a cure every 5 Healing Skill. This means that adding 1 healing skill when you have 199 would be as effective as adding 9 Healing Skill when you have 195
- Equipment bonuses and Day/Weather bonuses are multiplied to your base cure in that order. This is important because if you switched the order it could affect the final result very slightly
- Cure V has a soft cap (it actually has 2) just like all other cures. Cure V's soft cap is just not as strong as the other cures (I hear WHM's say Cure 5 has no cap way too often please stop)
- All of the Blue Mage cures are based off the WHM cure formulas
- Blue Mage cures are very efficient


Anyways hope you find this somewhat useful and/or interesting.

[fantasticdan]

While it's mildily interesting, the calculations regarding magic fruit are wrong. I copied my stats into the calculator just to test it out, with and without /whm sub and healing magic skill, and it was off both times. Just putting random numbers in there, the calculator seems to add like .7 of an hp per +1 vit, while in game it adds +1 hp to cure potency for every +1 vit.

[Spekkio]

- Equipment bonuses and Day/Weather bonuses are multiplied to your base cure in that order. This is important because if you switched the order it could affect the final result very slightly

this line seems blatantly wrong. associative/commutative laws which apply to scalar multiplication state that (a*b)*c=a*(b*c)/a*b=b*a respectively. as such, (Base Cure Value*Gear)*Day/Weather=(Base Cure Value*Day/Weather)*Gear, which is in direct contradiction to the above quote, if i understand it correctly. this may be alleviated by the fact that the game tends to floor all calculations at every step, which COULD in fact affect the calculation due to rounding errors, however floors aren't stated in the equation mentioned.

[Sylphet]

Interesting however I also found that the numbers were slightly off. My standard Cure V is 861 and according to the calculator it should be 858. I realize that's not a large difference but there might be a slight error in the formula?

Also, the two "soft caps" for Cure V aren't thorougly explained (unless I'm missing something). Granted I can see that there are 2 different slopes for almost every Cure but I'm wondering if that was derrived empirically or from calculations only? I've personally found different equivalents of MND vs healing magic than what he has described, in fact I found variable returns. It would be nice to see some actual numbers on the diminishing returns from stacking MND etc on Cure V. He states one example in his Cure testing adventures but I haven't personally seen evidence of a Cure V capping out (albeit I haven't sat down and crunched the numbers).

It's a nice body of work though and I'm happy to see people running numbers on cures since I sure don't have the time to do it.

[Septimus]

Interesting. My Galka JSE pieces all have -VIT on them. It makes me sad to think that all of that wonderful MP was hurting my cure performance. ;_;

[Nirokun!]

rse for mp, burn and switch to blessed

i keep a max mp macro for when i have time to rest for it, or when im aware of a green statue in dynamis, otherwise its too much work for me to hit that one little macro and watch my hp go poof

[furen]

While it's mildily interesting, the calculations regarding magic fruit are wrong. I copied my stats into the calculator just to test it out, with and without /whm sub and healing magic skill, and it was off both times. Just putting random numbers in there, the calculator seems to add like .7 of an hp per +1 vit, while in game it adds +1 hp to cure potency for every +1 vit.

Hard for me to know what might be happening without more information. Please post some actual stats and cures. Also please make sure you are not doing this on lightsday/lightweather.

- Equipment bonuses and Day/Weather bonuses are multiplied to your base cure in that order. This is important because if you switched the order it could affect the final result very slightly

this line seems blatantly wrong. associative/commutative laws which apply to scalar multiplication state that (a*b)*c=a*(b*c)/a*b=b*a respectively. as such, (Base Cure Value*Gear)*Day/Weather=(Base Cure Value*Day/Weather)*Gear, which is in direct contradiction to the above quote, if i understand it correctly. this may be alleviated by the fact that the game tends to floor all calculations at every step, which COULD in fact affect the calculation due to rounding errors, however floors aren't stated in the equation mentioned.

You basically answered your own question, the post was a basic summary, in the actual web pages I mentioned that everything in brakets is rounded down. Starting to regret posting a small summary as post becuase I don't think many people actually read anything on the webpage.

Interesting however I also found that the numbers were slightly off. My standard Cure V is 861 and according to the calculator it should be 858. I realize that's not a large difference but there might be a slight error in the formula?

Also, the two "soft caps" for Cure V aren't thorougly explained (unless I'm missing something). Granted I can see that there are 2 different slopes for almost every Cure but I'm wondering if that was derrived empirically or from calculations only? I've personally found different equivalents of MND vs healing magic than what he has described, in fact I found variable returns. It would be nice to see some actual numbers on the diminishing returns from stacking MND etc on Cure V. He states one example in his Cure testing adventures but I haven't personally seen evidence of a Cure V capping out (albeit I haven't sat down and crunched the numbers).

It's a nice body of work though and I'm happy to see people running numbers on cures since I sure don't have the time to do it.

For the first part, my standard WHM cure V (with food) is also 861. Would love to know mind/vit/skill/equipment you have that gives you your 861 cure V's. Offhand (I'm not at home) I believe for me it is 142/62/276/22%.

For the second part I'm thinking maybe I should post a link to my excel file. It's kinda big though (umm I think 2.8 megs). Basically incrementing stats slowly and observing how fast the cures went up. There were obvoius points where the rate slowed. For lots of cures it's blantely obvious where this occurs becuase it slows down so much Cure I-IV but for Cure V the difference isn't all that impressive.

[Sylphet]

For the first part, my standard WHM cure V (with food) is also 861. Would love to know mind/vit/skill/equipment you have that gives you your 861 cure V's. Offhand (I'm not at home) I believe for me it is 142/62/276/22%.

For the second part I'm thinking maybe I should post a link to my excel file. It's kinda big though (umm I think 2.8 megs). Basically incrementing stats slowly and observing how fast the cures went up. There were obvoius points where the rate slowed. For lots of cures it's blantely obvious where this occurs becuase it slows down so much Cure I-IV but for Cure V the difference isn't all that impressive.

Here's everything you ever wanted to know about my WHM and then some:

http://sylphet.livejournal.com/15766.html#cutid1

I don't use food for the 861 Cure V and all of the gear I use is listed there.

Edit: PS No yelling at me for saying that Cure V is not capped! The reason I say that is because I've yet to see a cap that's anything like what you see for I-IV. For all of my experience with Cure V and adding on gear etc. there is no "hard" cap like there is for the other cures.

[Tajin]

Not flaming:
You alias works with the space? you have numinous_shield +1, but the alias files has it as shield_+1


BTW nice LJ

[Sylphet]

Not flaming:
You alias works with the space? you have numinous_shield +1, but the alias files has it as shield_+1


BTW nice LJ

lol no it doesn't! You do have to have it exactly as written. Truth is that I made the alias file after I had all of the macros made so I just used the original scripts for WHM since I've been really short on time to re-write all of them. It was more to illustrate the point of the utility of the aliases. Thanks for pointing that out though I'll change it later on, and glad you liked it.

[furen]

For the first part, my standard WHM cure V (with food) is also 861. Would love to know mind/vit/skill/equipment you have that gives you your 861 cure V's. Offhand (I'm not at home) I believe for me it is 142/62/276/22%.

For the second part I'm thinking maybe I should post a link to my excel file. It's kinda big though (umm I think 2.8 megs). Basically incrementing stats slowly and observing how fast the cures went up. There were obvoius points where the rate slowed. For lots of cures it's blantely obvious where this occurs becuase it slows down so much Cure I-IV but for Cure V the difference isn't all that impressive.

Here's everything you ever wanted to know about my WHM and then some:

http://sylphet.livejournal.com/15766.html#cutid1

I don't use food for the 861 Cure V and all of the gear I use is listed there.

Edit: PS No yelling at me for saying that Cure V is not capped! The reason I say that is because I've yet to see a cap that's anything like what you see for I-IV. For all of my experience with Cure V and adding on gear etc. there is no "hard" cap like there is for the other cures.

Sorry if you thought I was yelling, I was on a 12 hr nightshift and really tired, I just wanted info. I looked at your cure setup, almost identical gear to mine (very nice). 138Mind, 64Vit, 291 CureSkill and 22 cure pot. I tossed that in calculator and it gives 861. I think you put 276 vs 291 as the healing skill (your gloves giving you +15).

[furen]

For the first part, my standard WHM cure V (with food) is also 861. Would love to know mind/vit/skill/equipment you have that gives you your 861 cure V's. Offhand (I'm not at home) I believe for me it is 142/62/276/22%.

For the second part I'm thinking maybe I should post a link to my excel file. It's kinda big though (umm I think 2.8 megs). Basically incrementing stats slowly and observing how fast the cures went up. There were obvoius points where the rate slowed. For lots of cures it's blantely obvious where this occurs becuase it slows down so much Cure I-IV but for Cure V the difference isn't all that impressive.

Here's everything you ever wanted to know about my WHM and then some:

http://sylphet.livejournal.com/15766.html#cutid1

I don't use food for the 861 Cure V and all of the gear I use is listed there.

Edit: PS No yelling at me for saying that Cure V is not capped! The reason I say that is because I've yet to see a cap that's anything like what you see for I-IV. For all of my experience with Cure V and adding on gear etc. there is no "hard" cap like there is for the other cures.

Sorry if you thought I was yelling, I was on a 12 hr nightshift and really tired, I just wanted info. I looked at your cure setup, almost identical gear to mine (very nice). 138Mind, 64Vit, 291 CureSkill and 22 cure pot. I tossed that in calculator and it gives 861. I think you put 276 vs 291 as the healing skill (your gloves giving you +15).

Btw you have some of the nicest whm gear I ever seen. Plus your a Elv, go do a max cure in temnos

[Sylphet]

For the first part, my standard WHM cure V (with food) is also 861. Would love to know mind/vit/skill/equipment you have that gives you your 861 cure V's. Offhand (I'm not at home) I believe for me it is 142/62/276/22%.

For the second part I'm thinking maybe I should post a link to my excel file. It's kinda big though (umm I think 2.8 megs). Basically incrementing stats slowly and observing how fast the cures went up. There were obvoius points where the rate slowed. For lots of cures it's blantely obvious where this occurs becuase it slows down so much Cure I-IV but for Cure V the difference isn't all that impressive.

Here's everything you ever wanted to know about my WHM and then some:

http://sylphet.livejournal.com/15766.html#cutid1

I don't use food for the 861 Cure V and all of the gear I use is listed there.

Edit: PS No yelling at me for saying that Cure V is not capped! The reason I say that is because I've yet to see a cap that's anything like what you see for I-IV. For all of my experience with Cure V and adding on gear etc. there is no "hard" cap like there is for the other cures.

Sorry if you thought I was yelling, I was on a 12 hr nightshift and really tired, I just wanted info. I looked at your cure setup, almost identical gear to mine (very nice). 138Mind, 64Vit, 291 CureSkill and 22 cure pot. I tossed that in calculator and it gives 861. I think you put 276 vs 291 as the healing skill (your gloves giving you +15).

Btw you have some of the nicest whm gear I ever seen. Plus your a Elv, go do a max cure in temnos

didn't think you were yelling XD and sad part is... I was WHM ALL THE FRIGGIN TIME ... and then I got Gjallarhorn.

Now I do nothing but play ballad all day long and my WHM gear is almost entirely on my 75 WHM (hume) mule.

In fact, I think I could write a script for every event I do on BRD and just afk the entire time! I'm only half joking about that

[furen]

didn't think you were yelling XD and sad part is... I was WHM ALL THE FRIGGIN TIME ... and then I got Gjallarhorn.

Now I do nothing but play ballad all day long and my WHM gear is almost entirely on my 75 WHM (hume) mule.

In fact, I think I could write a script for every event I do on BRD and just afk the entire time! I'm only half joking about that

You know I have only played whm for 2 years, but I finally have started to level bard. I always thought bard as the only other job I might bring to 75, but have this fear that if I do I'll end up playing that all the time rather then whm. I don't want that to happen.

Edit: My grammar fails.

[Bardlet]

didn't think you were yelling XD and sad part is... I was WHM ALL THE FRIGGIN TIME ... and then I got Gjallarhorn.

Now I do nothing but play ballad all day long and my WHM gear is almost entirely on my 75 WHM (hume) mule.

In fact, I think I could write a script for every event I do on BRD and just afk the entire time! I'm only half joking about that

You know I have only played whm for 2 years, but I finally have started to level bard. I always thought bard as the only other job I might bring to 75, but have this fear that if I do I'll end up playing that all the time rather then whm. I don't want that to happen.

Edit: My grammar fails.

Never happen now that everyone in the LS has BRD levelled. Why do you think I've been going to stuff as WHM now?

[ClassicRed]

Tha's good! >.> More BRD's + More WHM's = Less Classy is on WHM :D And almost less RDM and more RNG :3 !



Alll works out rly! >:3

[AzazaelFenrir]

now Classy if your LS had an UBER RDM with UBER Paralyze Procs you would never have to go RDM.

Now where to find one of those.......