Guttler for WAR?

[Alistaire]

Why can Blue Mages not equip Ridill? (BLUs can equip every other Falchion except for Seiryu's Sword.)

Why do Red Mages have an amazing selection of Hand-to-Hand weapons, but no Hand-to-Hand skill?

Why do Puppetmasters have a throwing skill, yet cannot use an Animator and throwing weapon at the same time?

Why does Square want Dark Knights to use Scythe, yet the man who teaches you how to be a Dark Knight exclusively uses a Great Sword?

It seems that you have stumbled upon one of the many great mysteries in life.

Forget PUP's throwing, why does BARD have throwing skill?

But about PUP, why do they get Hope Staff? THEY HAVE NO STAFF SKILL!

Though about blu, Ridill/Seiryu's Sword are both the same model, and seems more of a heavier sword, that's the best I can figure. Well, that and Dragon's Aery is bad enough without any added demand from the blu population.

[Septimus]

Why does Square want Dark Knights to use Scythe, yet the man who teaches you how to be a Dark Knight exclusively uses a Great Sword?

Maybe he was PLD before he became a DRK, har har har.

And Sept, your questions are actually harder to understand than why WAR can't wear Guttler. The game SE had in mind wasn't filled with people spamming WSes and using the shit out of Dual Wield and Utsusemi. They probably thought a WAR had to be crazy to use an Axe(unless they were tanking with Axe + Shield, lawl) over a Great Axe or Great Sword. Maybe they didn't do the math when they added the RoZ expansion. Maybe one day, they will start using foresight.

I don't know about you, but I am happy that I am not playing the game that Square had in mind. A terrible, nightmarish realm filled with SMN/BLMs, WAR/DRGs using polearms, great axe wielding PLDs, BRDs who spam Carol and Minne in parties, and where 4k an hour is only achieved by the best of the best merit parties. You can go live there, I am perfectly content in my dual-wielding, Utsusemi-covered, 20+k-an-hour paradise.

[Codernaut]

Don't forget the legions of RDMs wearing full Wise JSE!

[Septimus]

Don't forget the legions of RDMs wearing full Wise JSE!

I am trying my hardest to forget them.

[LD]

Be nice if they made GAxes and two-handers in general worth using before they give WAR another relic, but no, this makes much more sense.

Is Maxx gonna have to choke a bitch?

Um....woosh?.....did I do that right?

[Intense]

Too many periods.

[Wooglin]

Nice on the Sundi/Guttler pics...

So besides the "triple proc rampages" (go home) reasoning, it doesn't seem like anyone really has a legit reason as to why WARs can't use a Guttler? I did chalk it up to SE being SE, but I thought maybe I was missing something... I really do wish they would do something with the relic weapons to make them more balanced though. It seems like there is such a discrepancy between the top 3 or 4 relics and the rest. Opening up some of these relics to other jobs or even adjusting some of the ones that are obviously not worth the time to even bother might be worth the effort on SE's part.

[Tordall]

I think the real issue is that they F***ed up for several jobs on their non-relic weapons, so the performance boost you get with the relic is minimal at best.

It would be pretty easy to make the last couple 'good' relics pretty worthless. If you think about it, would Gjallarhorn be worthwhile if bard had a +2 ballad instrument?

[Sagacious Sundi]

If WARs could equip Guttlers, no one would help a BST upgrade theirs!

[Amele]

It would be pretty easy to make the last couple 'good' relics pretty worthless. If you think about it, would Gjallarhorn be worthwhile if bard had a +2 ballad instrument?

most career bards I know would still want one just for the inventory saving effect owning one would have; but this is a good point.

the best relics are the ones with either a) significant effects unique to their slot (aegis, gjallahorn) or b) the best weaponskill for their weapon type (amanomurakumo, others)

everything else is either a little too close to its competition (destroyers are way too good) or lolworthy due to job, lack of quality improvement beyond straight dmg/dly. ('sup claustrum!)

[Ryko]

Why does Square want Dark Knights to use Scythe, yet the man who teaches you how to be a Dark Knight exclusively uses a Great Sword?

In light of this and the relic discussion at hand, I only have this to say.

lolragnarok

[Isiolia]

So besides the "triple proc rampages" (go home) reasoning, it doesn't seem like anyone really has a legit reason as to why WARs can't use a Guttler?

Because BSTs are supposed to be the 1h axe masters I suppose. There's one axe in the game BST can't use. War AF1. The first BST only axe is level 5, and there are several more prior to Relic.

Temperance Axe is also not given to WAR, and I suppose RNG got it because it made someone chuckle.

IMO, WAR is supposed to be a multi-weapon job. Not a specialist in one type. BST is pretty limited outside of Axe. Scythe is B-, but the better WS are DRK only, and other than that the options really suck.
Someone at SE just seems to regard 2h weapons as a lot better than they tend to be >_>

It's true that WAR is able to equip some of the very best gear in the game, however BST is able to equip all of the same gear (correct me if I'm wrong) - Heca, Ridill, Haidate, Dusk, etc - BST is able to use it all. Granted BST has a much lower sword skill than WAR - but I'd think BSTs other abilities would compensate for the differential in sword skill in term of something being imbalanced or broken.

It used to be standard to see WAR/DRK/BST on stuff. Newer sets haven't really been that way. ToAU has mostly given us light armor, with the exception of the so-so Askar set.

The BST job has -zero- JAs or traits for DD, so I'm not sure what would make up for the lack of sword skill. Our entire compensation is in form of a pet, one whose contribution becomes comparably less the better you and/or your party do.

[Septimus]

Nice on the Sundi/Guttler pics...

So besides the "triple proc rampages" (go home) reasoning, it doesn't seem like anyone really has a legit reason as to why WARs can't use a Guttler? I did chalk it up to SE being SE, but I thought maybe I was missing something... I really do wish they would do something with the relic weapons to make them more balanced though. It seems like there is such a discrepancy between the top 3 or 4 relics and the rest. Opening up some of these relics to other jobs or even adjusting some of the ones that are obviously not worth the time to even bother might be worth the effort on SE's part.

Why can't Red Mage use Vorpal Blade? Why can't Puppetmaster use Asuran Fists? Why is Last Resort's duration 30 seconds when Berserk is 3 minutes? Why can none of the new jobs use Kraken Clubs?

There are no good answers for any of these questions.

Chances are Onslaught is not going to be better than Rampage and Guttler only has 4 damage more than a latent Maneater. Yeah, triple damage proc is great and all, but you don't see me crying on my Adaman Hauberk and Ridill because I can't get a Guttler.

[StaplerGuy]

Why can none of the new jobs use Kraken Clubs?

There are no good answers for any of these questions.

You answered that one yourself. We're not playing SE's game, and they're afraid to give our BLUs any implement with which to not play their game even further, regardless of the actual impact it would have on the job.

Or something along those lines.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Be nice if they made GAxes and two-handers in general worth using before they give WAR another relic, but no, this makes much more sense.

Is Maxx gonna have to choke a bitch?

Um....woosh?.....did I do that right?

No.

You really didn't.

I know exactly what you meant.

[Septimus]

Why can none of the new jobs use Kraken Clubs?

There are no good answers for any of these questions.

You answered that one yourself. We're not playing SE's game, and they're afraid to give our BLUs any implement with which to not play their game even further, regardless of the actual impact it would have on the job.

Or something along those lines.

Most Blue Mages agree that the TP from a Kraken Club wouldn't be game altering since you are limited by the recast timer on Chain Affinity and sword weapon skills are not the bulk of their damage. There is no good reason for it.

[Sagacious Sundi]

Why can none of the new jobs use Kraken Clubs?

There are no good answers for any of these questions.

You answered that one yourself. We're not playing SE's game, and they're afraid to give our BLUs any implement with which to not play their game even further, regardless of the actual impact it would have on the job.

Or something along those lines.

Most Blue Mages agree that the TP from a Kraken Club wouldn't be game altering since you are limited by the recast timer on Chain Affinity and sword weapon skills are not the bulk of their damage. There is no good reason for it.

I think he means SE fears it, despite that fact that it will be nothing new and game-breaking. When it comes to actual logic and reasoning, yeah, there's no good reason.

[Wooglin]

I guess when I think of the idea of a relic weapon - and then compare that with the reality of what it takes to fully upgrade any weapon in this game (in terms of time and gil) - I see the majority of the relics being a major disappointment. IMO, every job should want to upgrade their respective relics - it should be their dream weapon. I think if you look at the reality of what it currently is now, that isn't the case at all. I mean BRDs and PLDs (and a couple others) absolutely lust after an Aegis or Gjallarhorn - and rightfully so. It would be nice if all jobs could feel the same way about their relic(s).

Open up Guttler to WAR. Add some mage stats to the Claustrum. Add some cure potency or refresh effect to Mjollnir (or open it up to other jobs if you want to only be a dd piece). Beef up the Bravura and Ragnarok.

I know SE does things that are completely random and moronic many times (as Septimus pointed out) - but when it comes to something like a relic weapon, it would sure be nice if they balanced out this aspect of endgame.

[Ohemgee]

I guess when I think of the idea of a relic weapon - and then compare that with the reality of what it takes to fully upgrade any weapon in this game (in terms of time and gil) - I see the majority of the relics being a major disappointment. IMO, every job should want to upgrade their respective relics - it should be their dream weapon. I think if you look at the reality of what it currently is now, that isn't the case at all. I mean BRDs and PLDs (and a couple others) absolutely lust after and Aegis or Gjallarhorn - and rightfully so. It would be nice if all jobs could feel the same way about their relic(s).

Open up Guttler to WAR. Add some mage stats to the Claustrum. Add some cure potency or refresh effect to Mjollnir (or open it up to other jobs if you want to only be a dd piece). Beef up the Bravura and Ragnarok.

I know SE does things that are completely random and moronic many times (as Septimus pointed out) - but when it comes to something like a relic weapon, it would sure be nice if they balanced out this aspect of endgame.

Sadly, all of that is wishful thinking.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

I can answer these with the reasons SE would give and probably what their reasoning was.

Why can't Red Mage use Vorpal Blade?

Red Mages are not supposed to be especially melee oriented. Vorpal Blade is a powerful melee WS and if RDM had it they might have been more used as melees which was not SE's intention.

Why can't Puppetmaster use Asuran Fists?

PUP's main weapon is the puppet, not h2h. They were worried that somehow if they gave PUP too much it would be nearly as good as MNK AND have a puppet.

Why is Last Resort's duration 30 seconds when Berserk is 3 minutes?

Originally, pre-US release, LR was +/- 50% instead of 15%. They just never really rebalanced it and now it is in its 'stupidly gimp unless you spend all your merits' state.

Why can none of the new jobs use Kraken Clubs?

Kclub turned out exceptionally powerful, probably more than they had anticipated, and they didn't want to nerf it since the community hates nerfs but they didn't want future problems.
One of the balancing things about kclub is that if you want to WS you have to use club WSes and they aren't all that great (aside from on RNG and we all know how effective kraken RNG can be.) BLU on the other hand bypasses this because they can use the TP gained from kclub in Blue Magic. BLU would be overpowered if they could kclub their TP up to 300 for a 300 TP death scissors that damn often, or so they probably were thinking.