Guttler for WAR?

[Codernaut]

If this were the case, then why are Red Mage/Warriors and Red Mage/Dark Knights not roaming the land taking party spots from heavy melees already? Access to Vorpal Blade, plus traits/abilities from the sub jobs to boost damage. Having 15% dual wield and Utsusemi are nice, but 25% extra attack from Berserk is a large boost considering how crappy RDM base attack is to start with.

I don't want to get too heavy with the battle mechanics... since we're already off topic. The attack boost from /war along with an attack setup is really nice, but I don't think it matches the damage output from /nin with the dual double-attack swords because w/ a low base damage weapon the more swings you take the better... especially when considering the enspell damage bonus.

I wouldn't say RDM/war or rdm/nin are already 'roaming the land' taking spots from weaker melee already because it's: 1) not desirable for the reasons I mentioned in the first post and 2) takes the best gear to do. Myself and an ls-mate of mine who do happen to have the gear required have done it before and it's pretty much just as I described. If SE added vorpal blade it would be infringing on 'overpowered'. TP gain w/ DoT comparable to a ninja with a WS average around 450-550. On ninja my WS average is about 680 and I already slaughter most people in parses... and this is while having to be concerned w/ staying alive (read: casting shadows).

[LD]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Guttler

Ah ha, well played.

But to my credit, it's Guttler. :x


In the case of PUP getting Asuran Fists, that would mean its H2H damage would go up along with its skill, so that makes at least some sense.
Even if it's still weaker, that doesn't stop it from becoming or being what is essentially a MNK with a pet.
Furthermore, I believe they should be fixing the job itself instead of giving it more abilities that mask its real problems.
No intelligent MNK is actually afraid PUP will take our place as a DD, but the fact is we have so few unique moves of our own (that we regularly utilize), that it's just annoying seeing another job eat them all up.

[Charismatic]

I just think the Guttler looks too cool for a WAR to be able to wear it, and SE agrees.

BST is obviously about looks, since it's nigh useless for almost everything else.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

My point is that often times their reasoning defies all reason. It is silly to ask questions when we all know that asking them is fairly pointless.

That's basically my point. I keep hearing people ask stupid questions on why SE did things the way they did when we all damn well know the answers but just don't like them.

[fenrirskhell]

i'll trade you straight up...

you give me your Beserk and Warcry

I'll give you Guttler

Don't whine because BST has a couple awsome axes that war can't equip when we have crap for DD JA's....

Especially when it's over a relic that 1% of the bst population has...

[Rocl]

ROFL

The whole poster and the sig, it's a full sensory experience that defies words

[Ohemgee]

ROFL

The whole poster and the sig, it's a full sensory experience that defies words

Who needs words when you have onomatopoeias

[SupHammer]

BST is obviously about looks, since it's nigh useless for almost everything else.

This is the smartest thing i've read in a long time. It's good to know there's someone who understands why I became a BST. Well looks and avoiding retarded parties.

On topic, RDM/NIN with Guttler/Joyeuse plus en- damage.... wait wtf is the topic again??

[orson]

i'll trade you straight up...

you give me your Beserk and Warcry

I'll give you Guttler

Don't whine because BST has a couple awsome axes that war can't equip when we have crap for DD JA's....

Especially when it's over a relic that 1% of the bst population has...

I don't think it's whining it's more just the fact SE does stuff that boogles the mind. It's the same stupidity that /Bst lvled to 75 is just as good as main Bst. Sure it's nice to have some things that make a job unique but it's not like Guttler makes Bst insane really. Apart from Guttler and Temp. Axe what other "awesome" axes Bst get. Bst shouldn't need better Axes to keep up with War they should have better abilities to get pets and better jugpets since that's what actually makes them unique. Bst already has access to 90% of the best DD gear War has so it's sorta wierd you think you need Guttler to make the job feel unique.

Actually the funny part is subbing War you get Berserk, Warcry, and Double Attack with only having Warcry being nerfed at all.

[solsovly]

i'll trade you straight up...

you give me your Beserk and Warcry

I'll give you Guttler

Don't whine because BST has a couple awsome axes that war can't equip when we have crap for DD JA's....

Especially when it's over a relic that 1% of the bst population has...

I don't think it's whining it's more just the fact SE does stuff that boogles the mind. It's the same stupidity that /Bst lvled to 75 is just as good as main Bst. Sure it's nice to have some things that make a job unique but it's not like Guttler makes Bst insane really. Apart from Guttler and Temp. Axe what other "awesome" axes Bst get. Bst shouldn't need better Axes to keep up with War they should have better abilities to get pets and better jugpets since that's what actually makes them unique. Bst already has access to 90% of the best DD gear War has so it's sorta wierd you think you need Guttler to make the job feel unique.

Actually the funny part is subbing War you get Berserk, Warcry, and Double Attack with only having Warcry being nerfed at all.

Wrath Tabar at the level its available is good. Kabrakan's is excellent as well. Back before Maneater (and possibly Woodsville) were available, there was Leopard axe. Subbing war gets you berserk, warycry and double attack and also killed in addition to losing dual weild delay bonus. In addition you lose the best offhand bst axe in the game. Don't think many bsts claim guttler makes the job unique. Charm, Call Beast and constant nerfs are what make the job unique.

edit: BST gets 10 bst only axes. This is not including the +1 variations, AF, relic or temperance axe.

[Sho]

i'll trade you straight up...

you give me your Beserk and Warcry

I'll give you Guttler

Don't whine because BST has a couple awsome axes that war can't equip when we have crap for DD JA's....

Especially when it's over a relic that 1% of the bst population has...

I don't think it's whining it's more just the fact SE does stuff that boogles the mind. It's the same stupidity that /Bst lvled to 75 is just as good as main Bst. Sure it's nice to have some things that make a job unique but it's not like Guttler makes Bst insane really. Apart from Guttler and Temp. Axe what other "awesome" axes Bst get. Bst shouldn't need better Axes to keep up with War they should have better abilities to get pets and better jugpets since that's what actually makes them unique. Bst already has access to 90% of the best DD gear War has so it's sorta wierd you think you need Guttler to make the job feel unique.

Actually the funny part is subbing War you get Berserk, Warcry, and Double Attack with only having Warcry being nerfed at all.

Wrath Tabar at the level its available is good. Kabrakan's is excellent as well. Back before Maneater (and possibly Woodsville) were available, there was Leopard axe. Subbing war gets you berserk, warycry and double attack and also killed in addition to losing dual weild delay bonus. In addition you lose the best offhand bst axe in the game. Don't think many bsts claim guttler makes the job unique. Charm, Call Beast and constant nerfs are what make the job unique.

edit: BST gets 10 bst only axes. This is not including the +1 variations, AF, relic or temperance axe.

Everyone listen to this guy. This is wut an awesome BST that knows what's up sounds like. 8) Now if they could give the god damned job some buffs finally...

[Rasantath]

i've got both bst and war to 75. i did bst LONG before i did war.
giving war guttler would:
a) make a lot of wars who didnt really want to upgrade a relic weapon very quickly decide otherwise
b) drive up prices of currency
c) increase contention for going into northlands dynamis
d) overpower the crap out of war

war has lots of choices for axes. they dont need the guttler.

i would still like to one day get a guttler. even if i can only use it on bst. i still use my bst heavily when doing stuff by myself (camping nm's, farming, etc).
does bst need JA's to compete with war's berserk/aggressor/warcry? if they want to merit, yes, one good solid ability would be really nice. do they need it to play the game? no not really.

and sho, while the maneater is newer, it is a hell of a lot more obtainable due to being from CoP ENM's vs coming from KS99's. even the juggernaut is more obtainable, even though it costs 10x the price. there are just more of them.

Everyone listen to this guy. This is wut an awesome BST that knows what's up sounds like. 8) Now if they could give the god damned job some buffs finally...

they have some. they just suck.
feral howl is cool. it just has an acc problem. a bad one. doesnt land on anything higher than VT.
killer instinct? bwahahaha. 60 sec duration (just like all the other circles) but a 15 minute cooldown. f that. i'm delevelling it as soon as i decide i want the merits in something else.

[orson]

i've got both bst and war to 75. i did bst LONG before i did war.
giving war guttler would:
a) make a lot of wars who didnt really want to upgrade a relic weapon very quickly decide otherwise
b) drive up prices of currency
c) increase contention for going into northlands dynamis
d) overpower the crap out of war

war has lots of choices for axes. they dont need the guttler.

i would still like to one day get a guttler. even if i can only use it on bst. i still use my bst heavily when doing stuff by myself (camping nm's, farming, etc).
does bst need JA's to compete with war's berserk/aggressor/warcry? if they want to merit, yes, one good solid ability would be really nice. do they need it to play the game? no not really.

and sho, while the maneater is newer, it is a hell of a lot more obtainable due to being from CoP ENM's vs coming from KS99's. even the juggernaut is more obtainable, even though it costs 10x the price. there are just more of them.

Everyone listen to this guy. This is wut an awesome BST that knows what's up sounds like. 8) Now if they could give the god damned job some buffs finally...

they have some. they just suck.
feral howl is cool. it just has an acc problem. a bad one. doesnt land on anything higher than VT.
killer instinct? bwahahaha. 60 sec duration (just like all the other circles) but a 15 minute cooldown. f that. i'm delevelling it as soon as i decide i want the merits in something else.

Agreed, War doesn't "need" Guttler but neither does Bst really. War would not be crazy overpowered by Guttler in anyway shape or form.

As for you prediction that every War would go out a start upgrading Guttler I find that hard to believe. Getting a relic is far more then just having it be useful for the job (especially just dam.) Which are the most commonly upgraded relics? Horn and Aegis because they can benefit a group the most where as any other relic is a toy or is going to slightly increase the dam out put of 1 person. There'd be marginally more people upgrading but it wouldn't be a huge amount by any means.

Also to all you people listing off Bst only axes Guttler and Temp. Axe are the only 2 decent endgame Axes War can't equip and neither are Tabar class so it doesn't make much sense at all. I don't get why Bsts are so whiney over just the thought of War getting Guttler. Firstly I don't believe Bst should be a straight DD job anyways and even if they are supposed to be the difference between Bst and War dam shouldn't be made up personally. The Bst's pet should be compensating to get close to a War's dam.

[SephYuyX]

i've got both bst and war to 75. i did bst LONG before i did war.
giving war guttler would:
a) make a lot of wars who didnt really want to upgrade a relic weapon very quickly decide otherwise
b) drive up prices of currency
c) increase contention for going into northlands dynamis
d) overpower the crap out of war

war has lots of choices for axes. they dont need the guttler.

i would still like to one day get a guttler. even if i can only use it on bst. i still use my bst heavily when doing stuff by myself (camping nm's, farming, etc).
does bst need JA's to compete with war's berserk/aggressor/warcry? if they want to merit, yes, one good solid ability would be really nice. do they need it to play the game? no not really.

and sho, while the maneater is newer, it is a hell of a lot more obtainable due to being from CoP ENM's vs coming from KS99's. even the juggernaut is more obtainable, even though it costs 10x the price. there are just more of them.

Everyone listen to this guy. This is wut an awesome BST that knows what's up sounds like. 8) Now if they could give the god damned job some buffs finally...

they have some. they just suck.
feral howl is cool. it just has an acc problem. a bad one. doesnt land on anything higher than VT.
killer instinct? bwahahaha. 60 sec duration (just like all the other circles) but a 15 minute cooldown. f that. i'm delevelling it as soon as i decide i want the merits in something else.

Agreed, War doesn't "need" Guttler but neither does Bst really. War would not be crazy overpowered by Guttler in anyway shape or form.

Firstly I don't believe Bst should be a straight DD job anyways and even if they are supposed to be the difference between Bst and War dam shouldn't be made up personally. The Bst's pet should be compensating to get close to a War's dam.

If BST didnt get Guttler, what should they get then? BST only use axe, and rarely ever scythe. And how do you figure that WAR wouldnt be more overpowered with Guttler? Your logic doesnt make any sense.

And apperintly SE wants BST to be a PT/DD job as they have pretty much came clean and said in a past interview that they never really wanted a solo job available.

[Sho]

i've got both bst and war to 75. i did bst LONG before i did war.
giving war guttler would:
a) make a lot of wars who didnt really want to upgrade a relic weapon very quickly decide otherwise
b) drive up prices of currency
c) increase contention for going into northlands dynamis
d) overpower the crap out of war

war has lots of choices for axes. they dont need the guttler.

i would still like to one day get a guttler. even if i can only use it on bst. i still use my bst heavily when doing stuff by myself (camping nm's, farming, etc).
does bst need JA's to compete with war's berserk/aggressor/warcry? if they want to merit, yes, one good solid ability would be really nice. do they need it to play the game? no not really.

and sho, while the maneater is newer, it is a hell of a lot more obtainable due to being from CoP ENM's vs coming from KS99's. even the juggernaut is more obtainable, even though it costs 10x the price. there are just more of them.

Everyone listen to this guy. This is wut an awesome BST that knows what's up sounds like. 8) Now if they could give the god damned job some buffs finally...

they have some. they just suck.
feral howl is cool. it just has an acc problem. a bad one. doesnt land on anything higher than VT.
killer instinct? bwahahaha. 60 sec duration (just like all the other circles) but a 15 minute cooldown. f that. i'm delevelling it as soon as i decide i want the merits in something else.

Agreed, War doesn't "need" Guttler but neither does Bst really. War would not be crazy overpowered by Guttler in anyway shape or form.

Firstly I don't believe Bst should be a straight DD job anyways and even if they are supposed to be the difference between Bst and War dam shouldn't be made up personally. The Bst's pet should be compensating to get close to a War's dam.

If BST didnt get Guttler, what should they get then? BST only use axe, and rarely ever scythe. And how do you figure that WAR wouldnt be more overpowered with Guttler? Your logic doesnt make any sense.

And apperintly SE wants BST to be a PT/DD job as they have pretty much came clean and said in a past interview that they never really wanted a solo job available.

I think SE says what ever to please folks. They probably woulda never said PUP was a solo job if it was more popular. As for the JAs-- they are all weak for the most part. It's like chosing the best of the bad Ah well, won't stop me from loving BST, lol.

[Priran]

Why can't Puppetmaster use Asuran Fists?

PUP's main weapon is the puppet, not h2h. They were worried that somehow if they gave PUP too much it would be nearly as good as MNK AND have a puppet.

Bumping a PUPs Hand-to-Hand skill from C to B is not going to make a PUP a MNK with a pet. PUPs have half of the Martial Arts traits, not to mention how much lower their base stats/attack would be, lack of DD job abilities, and that they do not have access to most of the stat boosting gear that Monks can get. (For example: Brown/Black Belt)

so why would you even give PUP asuran? with pup's stats and gear, asuran would probably end up being weaker than HF or DK, and doesn't chain half as well.

[LinktheDeme]

Why can't Puppetmaster use Asuran Fists?

PUP's main weapon is the puppet, not h2h. They were worried that somehow if they gave PUP too much it would be nearly as good as MNK AND have a puppet.

Bumping a PUPs Hand-to-Hand skill from C to B is not going to make a PUP a MNK with a pet. PUPs have half of the Martial Arts traits, not to mention how much lower their base stats/attack would be, lack of DD job abilities, and that they do not have access to most of the stat boosting gear that Monks can get. (For example: Brown/Black Belt)

so why would you even give PUP asuran? with pup's stats and gear, asuran would probably end up being weaker than HF or DK, and doesn't chain half as well.

insert asuran is 50% bard 50% accuracy quote

[Damane]

I want a relic pet that I can call with my "Call Beast" ability for infinite amount of times
I dont care to give wars guttler if I can get a relic pet. Would be way awesome to have an uber pet that can do triple crit dmg, and hits like a diremite on steroids with 6k HP

[orson]

I want a relic pet that I can call with my "Call Beast" ability for infinite amount of times
I dont care to give wars guttler if I can get a relic pet. Would be way awesome to have an uber pet that can do triple crit dmg, and hits like a diremite on steroids with 6k HP

Good idea, or at least have Guttler if it is going to be Bst only have it give like +5 lvls to jugpets.

[Priran]

Why can't Puppetmaster use Asuran Fists?

PUP's main weapon is the puppet, not h2h. They were worried that somehow if they gave PUP too much it would be nearly as good as MNK AND have a puppet.

Bumping a PUPs Hand-to-Hand skill from C to B is not going to make a PUP a MNK with a pet. PUPs have half of the Martial Arts traits, not to mention how much lower their base stats/attack would be, lack of DD job abilities, and that they do not have access to most of the stat boosting gear that Monks can get. (For example: Brown/Black Belt)

so why would you even give PUP asuran? with pup's stats and gear, asuran would probably end up being weaker than HF or DK, and doesn't chain half as well.

insert asuran is 50% bard 50% accuracy quote

bard would be for minuet since last time I checked march doesn't help with WS damage, and gear/h2h skill are worth at least the 55ish attack from songs, which conveniently also covers the acc deficit.

i'm not exactly sure if you're trying to disagree with me, but PUP asurans would, if I had to guess, average maybe 4-500, and I could do more than that with howling fist when I first got it.