100 Scythe - Omnislash

[finale23]

if you could swing so rapidly, isn't using ws kind of counter-productive? especially seeing how your ws didn't inflict alot of dmg.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

For whatever speed you get apoc to, that speed -20% haste x average 4 swings per round is going to outclass it handily.

Souleater can't always be up

[Highlulu]

if you could swing so rapidly, isn't using ws kind of counter-productive? especially seeing how your ws didn't inflict alot of dmg.

he used the cata for it's extra haste.

[Asdra]

Yeah, cause swinging an average of 4 times with 50%+ haste at 240 damage a hit for 960+ damage a round is really beat by a scythe doing 400-700 a round?

You forget, you can get all that haste with a kclub and swing so fast that the animation glitchs alot worse than what you see in the video with much higher potential. Until I see a screen of that scythe hitting 1920+(240x8) damage for 1 round of attack in a video like whats posted here, the kclub still beats it on consistancy for fights where you wanna end it in 30 seconds.

[yrpaine]

if you could swing so rapidly, isn't using ws kind of counter-productive? especially seeing how your ws didn't inflict alot of dmg.

exactly why if you're going to full buff and 2hr, you're better off with a KC. if that was to be done on anything frapsworthy he'd either die and be weak for 5 min till souleater was up, or it would be dead and there would be no additional DoT, and i'm sure a KC with same buffs would pwn a marid faster than that.

For whatever speed you get apoc to, that speed -20% haste x average 4 swings per round is going to outclass it handily.

Souleater can't always be up

thats why you kick the dead drk and put in another one that has souleater up and a KC.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

For whatever speed you get apoc to, that speed -20% haste x average 4 swings per round is going to outclass it handily.

I don't get what you're trying to say. Why do people keep bringing up 'swings per round' or "attack rate" when the video clearly shows, that at 95% haste, you're basically attacking non stop, with practically zero delay in between? There's no attack round to speak of because there's ALMOST zero pause in between swings.

Imo, what makes Apoc SE/BW zerg more powerful than Kraken is the fact that it can and will double/triple damage proc during the duration. Say, even if Kraken swings slightly faster, it's still only hitting for 250+ on average, whereas Apoc zerg is hitting for 400-700+ damage a swing.

Maybe you guys are misunderstanding me? I'm comparing the both in its optimum setting. Basically what you saw in Xno's vid vs optimum Kraken set up. 95% hasted Apoc vs 70% haste Kraken, basically. And at that speed, attack per rounds is not even an issue because with both weapons, there's literally no rounds to speak of. The entire duration of SE/BW is the round itself.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

Eh I was right, you guys did misunderstand my original post. Without all the optimum buffs -- Haste from Cata, SV Marchx2, /SAM haste and merited Desperate Blow, Kraken destroys regular Apoc when SE/BW are up. I was comparing the two in its fastest state with the most amount of buffs.

I'll reiterate: take EXACTLY what you saw from Xno's vid, and then tell me if Kraken can do more than that. I don't see how non stop 250+ damage beats non stop 300-700 damage (yeah, obvious).

[yrpaine]

you guys are misunderstanding me? I'm comparing the both in its optimum setting. Basically what you saw in Xno's vid vs optimum Kraken set up. 95% hasted Apoc vs 70% haste Kraken, basically. And at that speed, attack per rounds is not even an issue because with both weapons, there's literally no rounds to speak of. The entire duration of SE/BW is the round itself.

pretty sure 5-6+ kc drk's outdmg 1 apoco drk for the same price.

[Kirschy]

To make it easier to understand. If you took a pen and paper, and marked down everytime the Scythe would swing with a full setup in a 1 min period(Souleater Duration), and then did the same using a full Kraken setup. The Kraken setup would far exceed the Scythe. It's not slight difference... it's a large difference. Although you saw many attacks in the video, there are actualli a ton more attacks that never get animated during the kraken setup, which is why it seems like Apoc would be better.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

pretty sure 5-6+ kc drk's outdmg 1 apoco drk for the same price.

That's something else entirely.

Kirschy: You may very well be right that Kraken attacks faster, but I'm not convinced it's SIGNIFICANTLY faster. Which is why I asked Xno to test it out in my earlier post. I mean, from what I saw -- Xno decimating a Madrid in literally mere seconds, and the other Apoc DRK killing two Greater Manticore in less than 1 minute with less haste than Xno -- I just can't see, or have yet to see, a Kraken DRK kill anything as fast.

Only way to find out is have Xno kill the same mob (preferably Greater Manticore sine they have an assload of HP) with both set up, and use a stop watch to time the moment he attacks and stop it the moment the mob dies. Only way we'll find out which has the higher damage output =P.

[Xno]

The sound effect comes from the Omnislash Scene at the end of FF7 , yeah they sux a bit , at least the sound of the first hits match ~~ the end sux. But which Fan of FInal Fantasy dont know that ? lol

the one who i skeptical is you kirschy , from the start ^^;

Look at the video now without Catastrophe at start, you clearly see the difference w/ cata and w/o , hit 2 time faster
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=E9-2Z-lyWAQ

now as for KC Vs BZ ( Bahamut Zagnal), i dunno yet , but i ve done the math , and i stoped because i felt into frightening number lol

What the best a 480 delay scythe at 95% haste ( 24 delay ) who hits 1-3 times ( assuming i can switch apo> BZ without loosing the cata effect ) with 1°) more accuracy 2°) more damage or a KC with 57 haste ( delay 113 ) who hits 2-8 times ?

[Kuponut]

I'm pretty sure Kraken DRKs aren't usually used on Marids.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

I'm pretty sure Kraken DRKs aren't usually used on Marids.

What does that have to do with anything.... I'm sure Xno didn't get Apoc so he could prove to the world how hard he owns Madrid, either. But it's still a test to determine which has the higher damage output between the two.

[Kirschy]

I've had Apoc + Kraken for almost a year now... and I've always seen a much a larger output by Kraken. Granted I haven't had Hasso for the longest time, nor Desperate Blows.. I do have them now, and I still notice Kraken swinging a lot more in the few times I've tried comparing.

And Xno, yea I'm still skeptical on it... even after seeing your second video, I honestly don't see a huge difference with or without catastrophe, they both seem pretti damn fast :/.

I've got a BRD friend with me now... gonna try to deduce a bunch of silly stuff on haste cap, and which of the following, Hasso/Cata/Desp Blows, go over haste cap.

[yrpaine]

I just can't see, or have yet to see, a Kraken DRK kill anything as fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNAtjP-nw6s

and the ppl in this vid are by far gimp in comparison to many kc drk now.

[Kuponut]

I'm pretty sure Kraken DRKs aren't usually used on Marids.

What does that have to do with anything.... I'm sure Xno didn't get Apoc so he could prove to the world how hard he owns Madrid, either. But it's still a test to determine which has the higher damage output between the two.

Marids aren't very high level mobs, you would usually use Kraken DRKs on things like JoL, Bahamut, Kirin, etc. I doubt you would be getting melee swings of 300-700 (you were arguing that this made Apoc. superior to Kraken) on mobs like that. The video was great and such (though the sound..), and Apoc's Haste effect not counting towards the haste cap is a really strong quality(Was it an actual 'cap?' or just the highest amount of haste you could possibly get ingame?). I would rather see how Apoc. does against Jol, Bahamut, etc. to fairly compare it to Kraken.

[Kirschy]

Err forgot to add, you can remove Scythe after catastrophe and you still have the haste effect~

[aurik]

What the best a 480 delay scythe at 95% haste ( 24 delay ) who hits 1-3 times ( assuming i can switch apo> BZ without loosing the cata effect ) with 1°) more accuracy 2°) more damage or a KC with 57 haste ( delay 113 ) who hits 2-8 times ?

I don't think you've shown 95% haste. Show data.

[yrpaine]

Err forgot to add, you can remove Scythe after catastrophe and you still have the haste effect~

see, now that might make for a fun video.

[Kirschy]

I just ran a bunch of tests with a friend using different combinations of hastes and frapsing it all so we could attempt to analyze it. I'll try and organise everything, and post something tomorrow~